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Ah, why am I not surprised? I was hoping for more, but I understand how generalities and sweeping condemnations are all you guys have. Getting into specifics would sink your whole agenda, wouldn't it? If you ever come up with anything, let me know.Quote:
Originally Posted by tomder55
as to the issue of specifics ;I explain my positions and provide sourcing as good as anyone on this site .
I agree with you, tom. It's true your positions are usually well-sourced and thorough as to details. I don't always agree with them but I respect the effort you put into them.Quote:
Originally Posted by tomder55
But not this time - an exception. You've even noted that a long snowy winter would be needed to provide the specifics and the detail I requested for you to support your position on "socialism". To my way of thinking, it should be an easy proposition (assuming you have something) so I'm at a loss to understand why you can't (or won't) do it. Or why a long snowy winter weekend would be required.
But you've made your choice. Let me know if you change your mind.
Just more nonsense.
Let's first define socialism. What is it?
Again???
No one has yet.Quote:
Originally Posted by jlisenbe
socialism: a political and economic theory of social organization which advocates that the means of production, distribution, and exchange should be owned or regulated by the community as a whole.
More succinctly, it is an economic system whereby the means of production is owned by the government.
Now that's funny!Quote:
AllOutCrazy
I don't think the dems are shooting for socialism as much as they are going for something resembling fascism. Their suggestion, for instance, that the suburbs be forcibly integrated by government dictate is a despicable extension of power. Same is true of basically nationalizing health care.
"The community as a whole" or "the government"? They're one and the same?Quote:
Originally Posted by jlisenbe
Who "suggested" that?Quote:
Originally Posted by jlisenbe
You know that's a crock.Quote:
Originally Posted by jlisenbe
Um, "Founded in 2010, the Daily Caller is an American news and opinion website based in Washington, D.C. It was founded by Tucker Carlson, a paleoconservative political pundit, and Neil Patel, a former adviser to former Vice President Cheney." Nat'l Review is a "leading conservitive magazine and website...."
National Review is a widely respected magazine. Strange how you are so unwilling to accept well sourced stories from the NR, and yet were so eager to jump on the rumor-mill story in the Atlantic which had NO named sources at all. A little bias showing through?
A few more links. I figure the last one will particularly interest you since MotherJones is a pretty left wing outfit.
https://thefederalist.com/2020/08/13...ricas-suburbs/
https://www.lawenforcementtoday.com/...n%20themselves.
https://www.motherjones.com/politics...mp-is-furious/
I answered that question hereQuote:
https://www.askmehelpdesk.com/image....ine=1300934878 Wondergirl Posts: 37,914, Reputation: 5430
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Today, 07:44 PMLet's first define socialism. What is it?
https://www.askmehelpdesk.com/image....ine=1557774471 jlisenbe Posts: 3,334, Reputation: 154
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Today, 07:49 PMAgain???
https://www.askmehelpdesk.com/image....ine=1300934878 Wondergirl Posts: 37,914, Reputation: 5430
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Today, 08:23 PM
https://www.askmehelpdesk.com/custom...quote_icon.png Originally Posted by jlisenbe https://www.askmehelpdesk.com/custom...post-right.png
Again???
No one has yet.
But that wasn't good enough Athos is attempting to keep questioning until he can find a hole in my answers .Quote:
so I assume you are going to now ask me what I think socialism is . Ok
Socialism is an anti-capitalist movement that developed in the 19 century .It demands economic equality guaranteed and enforced by the state . It envisions a society where the means of production ,distribution and labor are owned and/or highly regulated by the state .
From that premise 2 thoughts emerged . 1. Democratic Socialism . It is a gradual Fabian like movement to gradually transform society to their goals . 2. A more radical revolutionary means to abolish existing institutions to hasten the move to a full socialist state . Marxism takes it a step further and abolishes the state . Fascism puts the illusion of capitalism into a state control of the economy . Fascism and Marxism are socialism by definition .
Socialism has been a failure .So it's proponents white washed it and relabeled it 'progressivism' . I would like to thank your bible 'The Atlantic' for in many words ,pointing out that socialism and progressivism is a distinction without a difference .
https://www.theatlantic.com/politics...essive/593095/
https://www.askmehelpdesk.com/showthread.php?t=847643&page=4&p=3857378#post38573 78
I'm done with that .Quote:
Would you describe specifically why you consider the Democratic Party "socialistic"? I don't want to put words in your mouth, so if I haven't characterized your opinion correctly re the Party, please change it.
In any case, please be as specific and detailed as possible.
jlisenbe As I mentioned in my answer ,fascism is a form of socialism .
Thank you for going to the trouble to show how silly these conversations can become. In months past the whole, "What is socialism?" line of questioning has been pursued before. In ten seconds a person can search for a definition of the term which is, it so happens, exactly what I did.
Your discussion of socialism was interesting.
Unfortunately the definitions of words and people is often used as weapons to beat people and ideas over the head. It's like loony right wingers calling loony left wingers crazy. If that's not crazy I don't know what is. The dufus has been running for his second term the minute he won the first, extending silly season far beyond what we have ever seen, with no break in between, causing everybody to lose their friggin' minds.
No, Tomder, I'm asking to understand how you critique programs/platforms/ideas as "socialism". When you defined it broadly, I asked you to put it into a real-life situation that you oppose. At first, you said you couldn't do it so quickly - you needed time to think about it. Ok I said.Quote:
Originally Posted by tomder55
Then, when I reminded you, you said you still didn't have time and that it needed a "long snowy winter weekend to have the time" - those are your words. Again, I said to let me know when you were ready.
Now, your position is "I'm done with that". What changed? You also said that Athos (me) is only trying to "find a hole in my answers". Also, not true. If you had described something I agreed with, I would have said so. Anyway, what if your comment re my reason was true (which it isn't), what are you afraid of? Can't you discuss your own belief with conviction?
It is VERY CLEAR you are avoiding the question and are now unable/refusing to answer it after you said you would.
It convinces me you don't really know what you are talking about when referring to "socialism". In any case, what could have been a productive exchange has now been discarded by you. You lost your chance to promote one of your favorite memes.
Readers here can now decide whether to believe you when you condemn "socialism" without any explanation of your condemnation.
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