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Originally Posted by tomder55

I didn't read everyone comments ,but you must be kidding . The American intelligence agencies recruited Alexander Downer in their sting of Papadopoulos . You know it and I know it .

What a coincidence that he happened to meet Papadopoulos in a bar where he learned from the drunken braggart the information Joe Mifsud planted into his brain … that the Russians has "dirt " on Evita.

What did Downer do with the info ? Did he follow protocol ? Did he get authorization from Turnbull to breach accepted protocol ? From what I understand ,the FBI learned of this directly from Downer and not the usual chain of command of the 5 eyes agreement which says that

any intelligence goes through the intelligence system of the country that gathered it.

But Downer decided to directly report the info to the American Embassy in London. Why ? Don't you think that should be cleared up ? What a coincidence that Downer's report ended up in the hand of embassy’s charge d’affaires, Elizabeth Dibble, who previously served as a principal deputy assistant secretary in Evita's State Department.

When ASIO eventually got it's hands on Downers memo ,it was shelved because they thought it was nonsense . Did Downer disclose any classified information to the American embassy ? There are questions that need to be answered ;and like Ukraine ,I'm certain that the US and the Aussies have a treaty to assist each other in criminal investigations .

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Let us agree that Downer is not the smartest kid on the block, however, in his position information gathering, including disinformation gathering, was part of his role, however, he was our representative to the UK, so what were the US and particularly someone part of Trump's campaign, up to in the UK? No one has asked this question. Australia is party to a five part agreement on intelligence gathering so any information is fair game and reporting it to the americans a matter of course. What the americans choose to do with it is anyone's guess. Obviously the whole US intelligence network leeks like a sieve so if you want anyone to know anything you tell the americans.

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Australia is party to a five part agreement on intelligence gathering so any information is fair game and reporting it to the americans a matter of course.

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Not true I know that Aussie protocol does not allow anyone to report to a foreign government . The information had to be funneled through your government ;specifically your ASIO.

We really don't know the specific of how things were handled, few stand on formality in real life sometimes. No telling how these personal relationships go, but it's a small point since we know for sure election campaigns are always looking for dirt, scandals and gossip to smear an opponent with. The dufus takes dirt from anybody whether it's true or not. He said so, and has done so. Fact is he will scam, sham, bamboozle and lie to gain advantage of a buck. He has done that many documented times before. He is still doing it now.

That's the point, not minor technicalities.

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Originally Posted by tomder55

Not true I know that Aussie protocol does not allow anyone to report to a foreign government . The information had to be funneled through your government ;specifically your ASIO.

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Do you think Downer didn't inform ASIO

but you know what these back channels are like

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Do you think Downer didn't inform ASIO

but you know what these back channels are like

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yes he did ;and when they shelved the report as so much baloney ,he went to the Americans with the info. What we really need to find out is if Downer was working as a foreign agent of the American Intelligence agencies . That is why Trump is asking Morrison to investigate .

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Originally Posted by tomder55

yes he did ;and when they shelved the report as so much baloney ,he went to the Americans with the info. What we really need to find out is if Downer was working as a foreign agent of the American Intelligence agencies . That is why Trump is asking Morrison to investigate .

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Seriously, your conspiracy theories are getting out of hand, Downer was sent to London to party, it is what he does best, you might say it is his only ability, and to get him out of the way, which is what we do with failed politicians. Look if you would like to replace some of yours I'm sure we could persuade Rudd, Gillard and Turnbull to drop in.

Tom, Maybe Downer was fed a line of bull from the Trump campaign to see where it landed

nope ....it was just NOT a coincidence that he ended up in the same bar as Papadopoulos . A lot of this we know already . The FBI sent an "investigator " who called herself Azra Turk ,to seduce and steer Papadopoulos to have a meeting in Rome with the so called Maltese professor Joe Mifsud . Then if we are supposed to believe what we are told ;Downer just happens to waltz into The Kensington Wine Rooms and strikes up a conversation with Papadopoulos about Evita . What a coincidence !!! Downer has said “I asked him whether he thought Donald Trump would be able to defeat Hillary Clinton in the general election,”.........“He said he was confident he could. He said one of the reasons was that the Russians might release some information which could be damaging to Hillary Clinton.”

Did he follow proper channels ? Not according to this report :

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The government’s defence of its decision comes after revelations in Guardian Australia on Wednesday that Alexander Downer took the then prime minister, Malcolm Turnbull, and senior colleagues by surprise when he relayed information to the American chargé d’affaires in London in July 2016 about his now infamous conversation with George Papadopoulos, then a foreign policy adviser to Trump.
Guardian Australia understands Downer’s conversation with Papadopoulos was recorded in a diplomatic cable back to Canberra.
But the first senior players in Canberra knew of Downer’s conversation with America’s top diplomat in London about Russia obtaining damaging information about Hillary Clinton from her emails was when the Australian government was contacted subsequently by the Federal Bureau of Investigation for more information. That diplomat-to-diplomat conversation, sources insist, was unauthorised.

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https://www.theguardian.com/australi...es-by-surprise

Of course it was unauthorized, that's what plausible deniability is all about. That's why taking anybody's version of the truth as gospel and drawing conclusions from them is faulty. You know that as well as I do Tomder, because people can say one thing to the media, while quite another under oath. If it's not under oath it just ain't gospel, may not be true or the complete truth. The devil is always in the details you don't know, and that's where we get speculation, opinion, and assumptions that are entirely circumstantial.

Anything that comes from the dufus as an example, or his sycophants, requires massive quantities of salt. A spoon full of sugar won't make any of this go down any easier given HISTORY. The real problem is ignoring HISTORY.

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The real problem is ignoring HISTORY.

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Who's history is that Tal. Are you saying there is plenty of history of interference in US elections or of Democrat disinformation campaigns?

Let's keep it simple and just focus on the dufus history Clete. A very long line of lying, cheating, stealing, bullying and bluster, many lawsuits, and underhanded dealing and covering it up.

Oh you mean someone's invented history, bull and bluster

The dufus didn't invent his history but cultivated it over the years, and is quite proud of being a crook. He said so.

But how do you know? because of what is reported or invented in the media

No he said so. "I alone can fix it" among his other utterances, though he lies all the time, and his lawsuits and antics are well right before your eyes, a matter of record. Now if you rather believe him, and not the media, then that's okay by the dufus too! What has the media INVENTED about the dufus?

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Originally Posted by talaniman

No he said so. "I alone can fix it" among his other utterances, though he lies all the time, and his lawsuits and antics are well right before your eyes, a matter of record. Now if you rather believe him, and not the media, then that's okay by the dufus too! What has the media INVENTED about the dufus?

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How would you know? Pilate asked what is truth? I may well ask the same. Yes Trump has trumpetted his brilliance for all to see and been found wanting, so this makes him a fool

Watch out for the feint.....the scattered Red Herrings.....Harry Reid just warned you not to underestimate Trump.....Its always the punch you don't see that knocks you out!

There once was a man of meager means who got a janitorial job at a steel mill producing exotic alloys....he barely spoke and his communication skills were lacking.....he simply came to work, on time, every day, and he always volunteered to pull overtime and work weekends....he worked at the mill for three and a half years....one day he didn't come to work....he didn't collect his last paycheck....his room that he lived in was just the way he left it, nothing taken, as if he simply dropped off the earth.....A few years later, an Engineer employed by the steel mill went to interview at a competitor steel mill halfway across the country....as he sat in the lobby, someone walked past him that he though he recognized....later in the day, during the course of the interview, as part of the interview process, he sat down for a one-on-one with a "James Smith PhD...as he came into the luxurious office3 of James Smith he finally recognized the man he saw in the lobby, it was THE JANITOR!

You can be fooled....everyone can be fooled.

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Originally Posted by Vacuum7

You can be fooled....everyone can be fooled.

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Especially you, V7.

Your example is preposterous and makes no sense. Trump is a madman and he gets worse with each criticism - a symptom of malignant narcissism. Psychiatrists across the nation are in agreement about Trump's mental disability. His public behavior says it all.

Here's the truth that you avoid as you consistently defend Trump even tho you deny supporting him.

"There is merit in mental health professionals making observations - and an evaluation would be helpful. However, 3-plus years of his tweets and unscripted rallies offer more evidence than a two day psychiatric exam ever could. Contextual psychosis alone is enough."

look we know he suffers from dillusions, such a pity he has to share them with us

Athos: I led off by say that Harry Reid (the Democrat from Nevada Harry Reid) warned not to underestimate Trump.

The story about the Janitor is true: Simply legal Industrial Espionage.....he stole everything, every process that the plant had in production.

Still, you say I SUPPORT Trump! Come on, I don't: I am pointing out the bear traps that lay all around the left....all these traps set by Trump.

You say Trump is a madman....maybe he is or maybe he is not, but you believe he is and some doctors probably believe that, too, based upon content of what he says......BUT: When did being a madman ever preclude someone from being very charismatic, very smooth, very convincing, or, even, very sneaky.....and being an educated people, a people steeped in culture, a people rich in scientific endeavors or any thing like these attributes prevent a madman from gaining control: You only have to look back to 1920's-30's Germany to see this as a real possibility! Trump being a screwball means nothing to him getting elected, AGAIN!

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Originally Posted by Vacuum7

The story about the Janitor is true: Simply legal Industrial Espionage.....he stole everything, every process that the plant had in production.

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And this fits Trump how????

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I am pointing out the bear traps that lay all around the left....all these traps set by Trump.

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Please name the traps set by Trump.

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Trump being a screwball means nothing to him getting elected, AGAIN!

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It means EVERYTHING to those doing the electing!!