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Originally Posted by tomder55

because American isolationism has worked so well in the past .

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Yes in fact it worked well for you over a fifty year period with only a brief interlude for WWI. The US grew rich while the rest of the world went to hell in a hand cart

That's a huge exaggeration Clete as the whole world has prospered as we have since the last world war, and mainly because we have not been isolated, just the opposite, we buy sell and trade with almost everyone, until this dufus came along and decided we don't need the rest of the world. Truth is economies are complexly inter connected.

I don't believe we should be isolated, I just don't think US taxpayers should bank roll other economies. US debt is $22.5 trillion dollars, which comes to $182,901 per taxpayer. Don't forget that foreign aid is our money being given away without our consent.

https://www.usdebtclock.org/

You elect people to work in your behalf, so that is your consent.

Name one elected representative that actually calls and asks your opinion before deciding how to spend your money.

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Originally Posted by Specter1

Name one elected representative that actually calls and asks your opinion before deciding how to spend your money.

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American voters elect people they trust to do the right thing, to spend money in the right way.

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Originally Posted by Wondergirl

American voters elect people they trust to do the right thing, to spend money in the right way.

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How is that working out for you? 22 trillion reasons why it isn't

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Originally Posted by paraclete

How is that working out for you? 22 trillion reasons why it isn't

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Actually, not badly. I know my state senators and representatives, and am not afraid to contact them, if necessary.

well of course, they are there to listen to you

really ? Illinois is a basket case just like here in NY .Foreign aid is not one of the subjects that most Reps discuss except with hot button issues like Israel .The American people generally don't understand the value of foreign aid . I'll say it bluntly ,it has nothing to do with altruism and everything to do with promoting our national and economic interests .

The biggest misconception is that we spend a disproportionate amt on foreign aid .. In fact ,less than one percent of the budget goes to foreign aid . So it's impact on the debt is a rounding error.

As someone who is a capitalist ,I think foreign aid is critical . 95 % of the consumers of the world live outside the US . THE POOREST 2/3 of them have over $5 trillion in purchasing power .And the economic power of most of these nations will grow ;at a much faster rate than ours . Our export industries have tripled in the last 40 years or more . Foreign aid has been the seeds we planted that are becoming fruitful. 11 of out top 15 trading partners started out as recipients of our aid.

Since 1990, the number of people living in extreme poverty–meaning below $1.25 a day–has fallen by half. They are the new consumers wanting goods and services their nations can't provide to them .

If we don't do it then China will.

China spent $354.3 billion from 2000 to 2014 (close to the $394.6 billion spent by the U.S. over that same time frame.) In fact, China now outspends the U.S. on an annual basis. This is critical to their

"One Belt, One Road" project;reinventing the silk road . We are in competition for these markets and are in fact falling behind ;and with that comes a decrease of influence in these nations .

You do know Tom that the belt and road initiative relies heavily on rail. I don't know how that works as much of it is Russian which I expect represents a bottleneck as much as it might be an advantage, however Russia and China have built closer ties while you have alienated both, so I wonder, whose international strategy works better, confrontation or trade

Russia invaded Georgia ,Ukraine . China has agreesively expanded ;and treats much of the population they control as bad as Nazi Germany(Uighers ,people of Tibet ,just about any Chinese that aren't native Han , organ harvesting of prisoners ) . Yes they need to be confronted by nations capable of doing so I have no idea what difference rail makes to this discussion. Yes tyrannies tend to flock together .So it is no surprise that Putin and Xi have created closer ties much like Hitler and Stalin did when it served their purpose .

And our dufus supports them both, and wants Xi to come to America with his dollars and build stuff, but first he has to buy stuff. Like Vlad did. Big Biz wants that to because Chinese labor is as cheap as it gets, with no rules, unions, or regulations. You could clear up something here Tom. Is the dufus accurate when he says he is bailing out the farmers with the money we get from tariffs on China?

If not, where does the money come from?

. Where are these big Russian investments ? You must mean like Evita selling 20% of America's uranium to Russi. Trump has a funny way of cozying up to Putin Xi and with other tyrants . His tool of choice appears to be sanctions against these countries ;or in the case of China ,tariffs.

His Treasury Department, which oversees economic sanctions, has targeted thousands of entities with asset freezes and business bans. The State Department is imposing its own penalties: travel bans on foreign government officials and others for human rights abuses and corruption .Recently Trump slapped more sanctions on Russia for the attempted murder of

Sergei Skripal and his daughter, Yulia.


One quote you won't here from his is

"

After my election I have more flexibility,” Like the emperor was caught on open mike saying to Medvedev .


I do not defend tariffs with friendly trading partners . But China is not a friendly trading partner . I'll let Trump worry about unintended consequences of his trade wars .If it were me ,I'd be looking for other markets for our farmers to sell their produce ;and if I was a farmer I would've transitioned away from China years ago.

That looks great on paper, but you didn't answer my question;

You could clear up something here Tom. Is the dufus accurate when he says he is bailing out the farmers with the money we get from tariffs on China?

If not, where does the money come from?

I added to may answer above

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Originally Posted by tomder55

I added to may answer above

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Sorry, Tom, but you didn't answer.

yes I did

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I do not defend tariffs with friendly trading partners . But China is not a friendly trading partner . I'll let Trump worry about unintended consequences of his trade wars .If it were me ,I'd be looking for other markets for our farmers to sell their produce ;and if I was a farmer I would've transitioned away from China years ago.

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Originally Posted by tomder55

yes I did

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well Tom that may not be entirely practical since the US has many competitors and markets being what they are you sell to someone who wants your product, which is what your farmers were doing, selling to China. The unintended consequence of Trump thinking he could impose tariffs without retribution was to deprive your farmers of their market

I only asked if the dufus was accurate, or was he lying as usual. Unintended consequences? I doubt that very seriously as any capitalists knows tariffs are the same as taxes, paid by the receiver of goods, and passed to consumers. So if China is not paying the tariffs that means we are with higher prices. China is a sovereign nation with rules and interests so either we stop doing business if their terms are so onerous, or play by their rules. I agree that after decades of trying to import our stuff, and exploiting the cheap labor, our capitalist have screwed up with chasing cheap for high profits.

China wants it's cut and will get it hook or crook, just like our own greedy capitalists. Now if they wanted leverage over China, they simply cut a deal with the people China wants to deal with clear rules of the road in a LARGE trade deal like TPP.