While the idea of the UN is a solid one, the reality is they are helpless in guiding sovereign nations and their internal affairs. It's a long way from consensus to actions and UN authority is easily IGNORED. The situation in Central and South America that sparks this migration of large numbers of people is not a new one nor a simple one to solve for them or us, or together, let alone stop it.

That doesn't mean we have to bar the doors and treat it like the zombie apocolypse, or act in FEAR and holler invasions, and not just ignore the pleas of the desperate, but criminalize and punish them. I just do not agree we are acting as the great nation we say we are. At least stop tauting your Christian bonifedes while acting like barbarians.

Is that not the definition of hypocrisy?

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Originally Posted by talaniman

At least stop tauting your Christian bonifedes while acting like barbarians.

Is that not the definition of hypocrisy?

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You act like you are the only one with problems. At least, for the most part, you are being invaded by Christian people, unfortunately for you they are also poor. This contrasts highly with what others are facing. Cashed up Muslims make their way across the world and ignore the borders in Europe and Africa.

Don't talk to us about behaving like barbarians until you stop invading other peoples' countries

My reference to barbarians was about the US policy toward desperate people Clete, as was my reference to hypocrisy, which seems to my humble observations as a cranky older American (Arthritis will do that some days.), to be steeped in hollering and flag waving and less to do about the good orderly direction necessary for problem solving in cooperative ways.

That's why I VOTE, but if the shoe of hypocrisy fits you then wear the bad boy!

Why are parents illegally crossing the border knowing there is a chance they can be separated from their children ? Let's be real about where the real problem lies .

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Originally Posted by tomder55

Why are parents illegally crossing the border knowing there is a chance they can be separated from their children ? Let's be real about where the real problem lies .

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I'm sure they have no idea that the wonderful, nurturing USA that has sheltered millions of immigrants (including my non-English-speaking ancestors) -- "give me your tired, your poor" -- would be so cruel as to separate them from their children.

I guess laws means nothing to them. The US has always had immigration laws. The problem is enforcement. They are shocked that someone would actually enforce the law.

Should the law apply the same to desperate people running from dangerous situations. Or should we have a humane process to deal these folks? What you call the way Trump and Sessions way of applying the law HUMANE?

That's the problem here Tom.

Your humane process is to leave them on the southern side of the border

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Originally Posted by tomder55

I guess laws means nothing to them. The US has always had immigration laws. The problem is enforcement. They are shocked that someone would actually enforce the law.

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The man/men enforcing the law are NOT doing a good job!!!!

Tal even refugee crisis needs to be controlled. As harsh as it sounds to the liberal sensitivities ,we cannot take all refugees in. Even back in WWII we did not take in Jewish refugees from Europe. Back in a saner time we had places like Ellis Island to screen legal immigrants . But years of poor border control led us to a point where it is assumed that once someone crosses the border illegally they are now eligible for citizen treatment and rights . It is absolute nonsense.

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Originally Posted by tomder55

Tal even refugee crisis needs to be controlled. As harsh as it sounds to the liberal sensitivities ,we cannot take all refugees in. Even back in WWII we did not take in Jewish refugees from Europe. Back in a saner time we had places like Ellis Island to screen legal immigrants . But years of poor border control led us to a point where it is assumed that once someone crosses the border illegally they are now eligible for citizen treatment and rights . It is absolute nonsense.

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What you need Tom, is a ticket to leave, perhaps giving them an exit bonus would help. It really wouldn't matter if you took in all genuine refugees, it is the economic migrants who come in vast numbers, it is the left who cannot tell the difference

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Originally Posted by paraclete

Your humane process is to leave them on the southern side of the border

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We didn't bring them, they came and got caught. How did you handle your boat people in their raggedy water vessels?

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Originally Posted by Wondergirl

The man/men enforcing the law are NOT doing a good job!!!!

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That's more to my point. The heavy handed way the law is applied and enforced. Actually though lack of action by our well paid legislators makes the problem worse.

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Originally Posted by tomder55

Tal even refugee crisis needs to be controlled. As harsh as it sounds to the liberal sensitivities ,we cannot take all refugees in. Even back in WWII we did not take in Jewish refugees from Europe. Back in a saner time we had places like Ellis Island to screen legal immigrants . But years of poor border control led us to a point where it is assumed that once someone crosses the border illegally they are now eligible for citizen treatment and rights . It is absolute nonsense.

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Most of those refugees died at the hands of the Hitler crew, yet did we learn anything from that lesson? So basically you are saying it's okay to send desperate people seeking safety and security to be sent back to their deaths? That's beyond harsh Tom, but obviously not too harsh for conservative sensibilities.

But if that's all you got....!

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Originally Posted by paraclete

What you need Tom, is a ticket to leave, perhaps giving them an exit bonus would help. It really wouldn't matter if you took in all genuine refugees, it is the economic migrants who come in vast numbers, it is the left who cannot tell the difference

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The truth about migrants is they come poor, but their children, and children's children, contribute greatly. That's the history of the USA. That is what makes us great, and keep us great no matter what the haters and fear mongers are yelling about. Maybe that's who should be prosecuted and DEPORTED... maybe you Aussies could take them since you read from the same bible and talk the same hate crap.

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The truth about migrants is they come poor, but their children, and children's children, contribute greatly. That's the history of the USA.

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During this entire month, I've been in a Chicago-area hospital and healthcare rehab facility. The majority of the medical and physical therapy teams and housekeeping staff and medivan drivers are black, Mexican, Filipino, and Indian. Many are women. All are well-trained, knowledgeable, do their work well, and are caring. What would this country do without them????

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The truth about migrants is they come poor, but their children, and children's children, contribute greatly. That's the history of the USA.

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The other truth is that they come here legally ....or that used to be a truth. The new truth is that there are people in this country who are not comfortable with concepts like nationhood and sovereignty . They think the notion of national borders and national identity is a quaint 18th century concept .

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The truth about migrants is they come poor, but their children, and children's children, contribute greatly. That's the history of the USA. That is what makes us great, and keep us great no matter what the haters and fear mongers are yelling about. Maybe that's who should be prosecuted and DEPORTED... maybe you Aussies could take them since you read from the same bible and talk the same hate crap.

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Tom we take a lot of legitimate migrants and we wouldn't mind Christians among them. We understand as well as anyone the problems of illegal immigration. We also take refugees, that is those who are proven to be refugees. However, unlike yourselves, we do not have an unlimited capacity. Integration is always an issue. Give me a Hispanic Christian over a Muslim any day

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We didn't bring them, they came and got caught. How did you handle your boat people in their raggedy water vessels?

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Tal we put them in life boats and send them back, if that doesn't work we have some nice holiday camps on tropical isles far from the crowd where we try to convince them they we better off where they came from

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Originally Posted by tomder55

The other truth is that they come here legally ....or that used to be a truth. The new truth is that there are people in this country who are not comfortable with concepts like nationhood and sovereignty . They think the notion of national borders and national identity is a quaint 18th century concept .

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That's why we vote every two years and have checks and balances because we are a nation of different views and opinions. Politicians are trying to keep their jobs but voters want what we want.

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Originally Posted by talaniman

That's why we vote every two years and have checks and balances because we are a nation of different views and opinions. Politicians are trying to keep their jobs but voters want what we want.

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You would be better off if you voted far less often and got on with the job instead of talking about it, your "democracy" has parralised you

A big country with our population has to move slowly. I don't expect you to understand that given your own dislike of us.

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Originally Posted by talaniman

A big country with our population has to move slowly. I don't expect you to understand that given your own dislike of us.

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You have to remember is what I dislike is what the system has produced and its outcomes in the world. There is no excuse for sloth on important issues, a large country has the resourcing to get on with the job. I understand as well as anyone how the system can get bound up by partisan politics, but it is possible to get things done if there is goodwill.

I don't believe in all out socialism, but caring for people is important, it is part of what we put governments in power for, to get the things done we, as individuals, can't accomplish. This seems to be lost in the rush for self aggrandisement. We have a national sport here of cutting down tall poppies so we truly dislike an individual like Trump who makes too much noise about himself. We too suffer from a truculent, recalcicant, Senate where the views of minorities are widely represented. However, we do seem to move on.

Despite the lack of perfection, and the distraction of the greatest circus on earth, and the long enduring tribal war, we move slowly, albeit steadily. It's not a simple thing to get the proper direction with opposing forces, nor as easy as we make it look. You find that out as you grow.