I have to say this is B/s Iraq is crying for help, they have a large army and yet they cannot defeat a few thousand militants, talk about wimps, muslim wimps, what don't you get any virgins for defending your own nation. I know that if my nation were invaded every able man would spring to its defence and push those upstarts out, but then we have a long history of getting the job done

We agree Clete, the Arabs aren't getting the job done.

They are cowards as was proven years ago in the arab/Israeli war when they ran away. I don't know what to do here, if a people won't defend themselves and talk about being defeated before they actually get into it after telling us how good they are, I think we should walk away. We give the kurds help and leave those craven cowards to their fate, I'm sure allah will help them

The Arab oligarchs spend enough money on weapons to collectively deal with 20,000 fools, thugs and criminals and loonies.

Well you would think so, but they don't seem tp get the job done

What they are dealing with is Saddam Hussein's former Republican Guard in alliance with radical jihadism . What the former Baathists want is a region between the Tigris and Euphrates they can call their own . In other words we have an alliance of convenience between Saddam's elite forces and AQ . We are all shocked at the brutality .What we should remember is that this was m.o. for Saddam . That is how he kept order . That they brazenly video tape their atrocities and post them on the web ;evidence of their war crimes ,is proof of their utter contempt for the reaction from the West .
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KFg4qnuZP0Y

I don't see this as an alliance with Al Qaeda. ISIS is largely comprosed of foreign fighters who will exploit the local populations to take territory and secure their objective.It is easier than fighting the Syrian army. Yes disaffected former Iraqi military may have joined in but remember such people are 10 years away from their time of military service. Personally I don't care if Iraq breaks up, it was artificial to begin with, so long as the result is peace in the region. The same goes for Syria. This is what you get for meddling, a mess.

One gang of loonies overcame the other. Still a gang. But the Iraqi's did this to themselves, more specifically Malachi. Instead of building, he went back to ancient traditions of division.

Malaki created a situation where sunni Iraqi would rebel but he is not responsible for ISIS. There is a pattern here, In Syria rebellion against a repressive shiite government and now the same situation in Iraq, it seems shiite cannot be trusted to be inclusive. It is a backlash against earlier repressive regimes in Iraq

Quote:

---

ISIS is largely comprosed of foreign fighters

---

nope mostly what used to be called AQI. Foreign fighters are joining because of the recruiting efforts and because we left a void for another strong horse to fill.


from WIKI ......

Quote:

---

ISIS is the successor to Tanzim Qaidat al-Jihad fi Bilad al-Rafidayn—later commonly known as Al-Qaeda in Iraq (AQI)—formed by Abu Musab Al Zarqawi in 1999, which took part in the Iraqi insurgency against American-led forces and their Iraqi allies following the 2003 invasion of Iraq. During the 2003–2011 Iraq War, it combined with other Sunni insurgent groups to form the Mujahideen Shura Council and consolidated further into the Islamic State of Iraq

---

Islamic State of Iraq and the Levant - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Quote:

---

It is a backlash against earlier repressive regimes in Iraq

---

it is remnants of the former repressive regime. Maliki gets a hat tip because he blew an opportunity to create an inclusive national government . But then again..... Maliki did not call the shots after we left him.

I think you are saying another US puppet couldn't get the job done. Same goes for Afghanistan. This whole situation is the result of the Bush invasion, creating opportunities for AQ and other terrorists groups. To stop this nonsense perhaps a couple of well placed tactical nukes, it worked on the japs, they saw the light

President Obama assembles international coalition to fight ISIS, vowing to 'degrade and ultimately defeat' jihadist group - NY Daily News

Quote:

---

Secretary of Defense Chuck Hagel said the coalition includes Britain, France, Australia, Germany, Canada, Turkey, Italy, Poland and Denmark.


Kerry will head to the Middle East next week, hoping to expand the coalition beyond Western nations before a meeting of the United Nations Security Council later this month.

“I think it is absolutely critical that we have Arab states and specifically Sunni-majority states that are rejecting the kind of extremist nihilism that we're seeing out of ISIL, that say that is not what Islam is about and are prepared to join us actively in the fight,” Obama said.

---

Doesn't look like nukes will be used.

Yes I know they are hoping to talk them to death, Britain might do some heavy lifting for you, they have a large enough muslim population to be worried, we are already involved and there are political opportunities aplenty for unpopular Prime Ministers, so I see SAS and strike aircraft in the future

There are no quick fixes to this complex problem that took years to develop, and likely will take years to cure. Air strikes are only a first step in a multistep campaign. You still need a qualified mop up after airstrikes actually on the ground, and funding which lends to cooperation, and coordination by many regional governments. Not to mention the total rejection of ISIL by the sunni arabs across the region.

Quote:

---

This whole situation is the result of the Bush invasion, creating opportunities for AQ and other terrorists groups

---

and Saddam Hussein terrorizing the population was perfectly ok because that was stability . Very consistent of you. You are aware that Zarqawi was operating in Iraq with Saddam's blessing before the invasion aren't you ? You know Zarqawi... the guy who created AQI . You are aware that while in power ,Saddam Hussein's Iraq was a state sponsor of terrorism .
You can try to blame Bush all you want . Under his watch AQ was defeated in Iraq . It is under the reign of the emperor where they made a come back .

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by tomder55

. Under his watch AQ was defeated in Iraq . It is under the reign of the emperor where they made a come back .

---

However we might like to think it, AQ hasn't been totally defeated anywhere, You might have succeeded in cutting the head off the snake in Afghanistan and Iraq but all you really did was drive it further underground where its ideas could ferment. You still haven't signed on to the idea
That eventually you might have to go house to house. Syria became the ideal breeding ground for these ideas so radical that even AQ wanted no part of it. AQ is really about opposing the spread of americanisation in the muslim world, but ISIS takes to a different objective one that has resonance among all muslims

Quote:

---

AQ is really about opposing the spread of americanisation

---

more nonsense . Bin Laden made it very clear in his fatwas that his goal was the renovatio of the caliphate . It's not new .The Salafist movement has been around for over a century .That begat the IslamoNazi groups like the Brotherhood ....which is the parent of all the radical Islamist movements today. But we can always count of you to blame America for anything and everything .

I don't think the message of ISIL resonates with ALL Muslims.

agreed ,it's mostly a recent phenomenon born out of rising expectations that started with the emperor's twin addresses to Cairo and Ankara...followed by the disappointment in the results of the 'Arab Spring ' ...and compounded by the fact that the emperor announced on day 1 of his reign that the US was vacating the premise and leaving a vacuum to fill.

I dont see it as a recent phenomenon at all. What I see is that the Muslim religion itself is to blame. Many religions have a checkered past. They have evolved and adapted to the modern world. I believe the Muslim religion needs to also make these fundemental changes before they can survive in the modern world. The religion has so many rules that are governed by others that it makes it difficult to gain a united front when so much is held in question. The religion is in conflict with itself and needs to start to dispell its old ways or risk being killed off. Honor killings have no place in the modern world. Treating women like cattle has no place etc etc etc. If these changes can not take place then the conflict will always be no matter what the face of it is that heads the orginization.