Either that or you can take the spin of right-wing groups as being fact. Not much of a choice.
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Either that or you can take the spin of right-wing groups as being fact. Not much of a choice.
ah but it's democracy don't you know? now Tom is going to tell us it isn't a democracy, but we know what it is a bullocracy
I'm not asking anyone to take any spin as fact. It's just nonsense to try and shift the blame on Wall Street and banks for Detroit's bankruptcy.Quote:
Either that or you can take the spin of right-wing groups as being fact. Not much of a choice.
Workers losing pensions is no spin.
Where exactly was that in what you quoted? It wasn't. Yes, some may lose pensions and that sucks, but that's what happens when you keep spending money you don't have. That's the sort of thing that led to Detroit's bankruptcy, not a breach of ethics on the part of banks.Quote:
Workers losing pensions is no spin.
So it's the workers fault?
Nah they just be pawns in the games the unions and the mob that ruled Detroit played .Quote:
So it's the workers fault?
You guys consistently misrepresent my positions so I will not attempt to defend the positions that you label me with ,Quote:
it is exactly that Tutt government by the corporation for the corporation that the profits of the corporation should not vanish from the Earth. These fellows arn't conservatives they are traitors, defending ideals that were never part of whatever capitalist utopia the founders founded. Wait a minute, the founders founded a liberal utopia the antithesis of what these guys believe
Quote:
Originally Posted by tomder55
Where does it say Tom in there, look I know you are good at reading between the lines and finding different meanings but you are not the only "conservative". So now we know precisely where you stand, with the corporations and exploiters. You didn't refute that. Call it a misrepresentation if you will
And I do. 5 years ago Lehman Bros collapsed causing a panic in the governments of the West. A bailout was devised ,and all the libs supported the bailout. I didn't .I said let the big corporate banks fail . Bankruptcy is a natural occurrence in a capitalist system.Quote:
So now we know precisely where you stand, with the corporations and exploiters. You didn't refute that. Call it a misrepresentation if you will
.It's the lib Dems and the Repubics that are the cronies of the big corporations .
so if you are not a republican and you are not a democrat then you must be the most dispised and prized person in your system, the swinging voter, sailing your fair weather ideas through the storm of idealogy.
If you say you are not a swinging voter and you expouse the ideas of a particular philosophy then what are you? the non voter? the arm chair commentator?
conservative .
conservative what?Quote:
Originally Posted by tomder55
American conservative ;born out of classic liberal thought ....personal responsibility, limited government, free markets, individual liberty, traditional American values , strong national defense. The role of the national government should be limited by constitutional restraints .
You forgot equality whether rich or poor. And what are "traditional" American values? If limited government and the free market means you have to be rich to make the rules I have to disagree, unless you have some mighty good rules of what's acceptable behavior by those that can afford to buy anything they want. We don't have a free market really, especially when you push tort reform for consumers and the common citizen, while employing the best high priced lawyers in the business and lobbyists and think tanks to insulate you from any liabilities.
You can't have a level playing field when you have two different playgrounds.
How many strawmen are you going to construct today ?Quote:
If limited government and the free market means you have to be rich to make the rules I have to disagree,
We believe in equality of opportunity ..You believe in a utopian version of equality of results.Quote:
You forgot equality whether rich or poor.
You keep making my point by dodging the issues raised with rhetoric. Show me the data that equal opportunity exists and limited government works for the ordinary citizen as well as it works for the "free market".
And again, define "traditional" American values. If you have them express them.
Like a 30 year exemption for killing endangered birds, preferential treatment for minorities, funneling kickbacks to liberal activist groups, using the IRS to harass your political foes, etc. etc.Quote:
You can't have a level playing field when you have two different playgrounds.
I said 'equality of opportunity' not 'equal opportunity' .
In some cases it is an interchangable phrase ;but not exactly . Equality of opportunity is aspirational in that we are trying to acheive a society where equality of opportunity exists.
Or as Michael Gerson and Peter Wehner put it ;“The ....goal is equal opportunity, not equal results. But equality of opportunity is not a natural state; it is a social achievement, for which government shares some responsibility. The proper reaction to egalitarianism is not indifference. It is the promotion of a fluid society in which aspiration is honored and rewarded.”
« How to Save the Republican Party Commentary Magazine
Individual liberty as the key driver of equal opportunity ,not government trying to force results
Dems vs Reps on fairness...
Quote:
A young woman was about to finish her first year of college. She considered herself to be a very liberal Democrat, but her father was a staunch Republican. One day she was challenging her father on his beliefs and his opposition to high taxes and welfare programs.
He stopped her and asked how she was doing in school. She answered that she had a 4.0 GPA, but it was really tough. She had to study all the time and never had time to go out and party.
She didn’t have time for a boyfriend and didn’t really have many college friends because of spending all her time studying. On top of that, the part-time job her father insisted she keep left absolutely no time for anything else.
He then asked, “How is your friend Mary?”
She replied that Mary was barely getting by. She had a 2.0 GPA, never studied, but was very popular on campus, didn’t have a job, and went to all the parties. She was always complaining about not having any money, but didn’t want to work. Why, she often didn’t show up for classes because she was hung over.
Dad then asked his daughter why she didn’t go to the Dean’s office and request that 1.0 be taken off her 4.0 and given it to her friend who only had a 2.0. That way they would both have a respectable 3.0 GPA.
Then, she could also give her friend half the money she’d earned from her job so that her friend would no longer be broke.
The daughter angrily fired back, “That wouldn’t be fair. I worked really hard for my grades and money, and Mary just loafs. Why should her laziness and irresponsibility be rewarded with half of what I’ve worked for?”
The father slowly smiled and said, “Welcome to the Republican Party.”
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