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Tom, this is the same tired old rhetoric. It is the same old. "one solution fits all" approach. Your canned "choice" is no way out of the problems that have been specifically canvassed in this thread

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Teacherjenn is in the system and appears to disagree with you. But when you talk of "one solution fits all" approaches why don't you also speak of the demonstrably failed public school system that we have had since at least the 1960s ? The progressive solution is to tax more and throw more money into a failed system. My God ! You could put gold tiles in every school with the money wasted by the administrators of almost every district in the country ! Instead ,many schools are in serious state of disrepair... forget about their primary purpose ;which is to actually educate the kids.
I don't care if you or anyone else considers it tired old rhetoric. When put to the test ,it's worked.

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Originally Posted by tomder55

the answer to your question is 'of course not ' . Public education has been in a long period of rut and deterioration .But unlike your canned 'throw money at the problem' solutions ,school choice is the way out. It forces competition among the schools which in turn compels schools to perform better . You should be applauding that there are demonstrated proven results when choice is offered. But of course ,like a true 'progressive' ,the only choice you like is the choice to kill your baby.

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If this method worked you wouldn't have the problem, all the competition does is cause the better teachers to gravitate to the better schools and medocracy reigns everywhere else.. The problem of poor education lies in opportunity and disadvantage and when you don't have opportunity to go to anywhere but the school in the disadvantaged area what do you get, poor self esteem and poor grades. Have you ever wondered why a place like Russia has a better education system than you do, it is because education is valued. Do you remember no child left behind a republican initiative that went nowhere

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The problem of poor education lies in opportunity and disadvantage and when you don't have opportunity to go to anywhere but the school in the disadvantaged area what do you get, poor self esteem and poor grades.

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Duhhh.Why do you think I support choice ? Where poor kids are given vouchers to go to better schools ;their parents have the CHOICE to either send them to the local school ,or to a better school. Bottom line is that the public education system is a relic of the 20th century that needs an influx of innovation. But the libs are stuck in the 60s .

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Do you remember no child left behind a republican initiative that went nowhere

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yes ;and it's failure is why the emperor's system will fail . We don't need a central command system . There is NOTHING in the constitution that gives the Federal Government the power to dictate national standards on the education systems of the nation.

I don't think its factual to lump good and decent performing schools into the same category as really bad ones just as its not fair to lump under preforming private schools in with success stories, but its obvious schools like firehouses, and public work require maintenance and that requires money. That's what makes or breaks any community, and as the school crumbles in disrepair, the whole neighborhood suffers greatly.

We bailout banks and build stadiums, but can't fix a leaky gym roof. Priorities are a bit screwed up I'd say. And it shows what kind of nation we have become. Keep the rhetoric, I would rather have results.

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Originally Posted by talaniman

We bailout banks and build stadiums, but can't fix a leaky gym roof. Priorities are a bit screwed up I'd say. And it shows what kind of nation we have become. Keep the rhetoric, I would rather have results.

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I gave you results and they speak for themselves.

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In New York City, 26 percent of students in third through eighth grade passed the tests in English, and 30 percent passed in math, according to the New York State Education Department.

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Last year, under an easier test, 47 percent of city students passed in English, and 60 percent in math.

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Chrystina Russell, principal of Global Technology Preparatory in East Harlem, said she did not know what she would tell parents, who will receive scores for their children in late August. At her middle school, which serves a large population of students from poor families, 7 percent of students were rated proficient in English, and 10 percent in math. Last year, those numbers were 33 percent and 46 percent, respectively.

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Are aiming low enough yet?

You see ,Tal would reward such performance with more money. Try even firing a teacher with tenure who's classes perform as badly. Good luck with that . Here in NY they can't even can pervert predatory teachers .

My state fights school vouchers and Fair tax. That's their backward thinking !

The results say that raising the bar for everyone makes performance go down, but that's not a bad thing at all in my view. Keep raising the bar and the results go up in time. Then we can compete with the higher standards that make us better. Making the numbers look good with shams for standards serve no one well in the long run.

And yes, I believe in fixing holes in the roof of the gym, a no brainer in my mind. I fail to see the point in compromising ciricculum safety AND maintenance and still call it a school. It's not. It's a sham.

Raising the bar a bad thing? Great excuse for dumbing down everyone!

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Originally Posted by N0help4u

Raising the bar a bad thing? Great excuse for dumbing down everyone!

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Speech said it was bad, I said it was good.

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Originally Posted by N0help4u

Raising the bar a bad thing? Great excuse for dumbing down everyone!

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Always keep the bar high -- and raise it even higher. Kids are competitive and want to succeed. I leaned fast as a new teacher, do not put students in various levels of reading groups. The poor readers pull down each other, and they all know instantly, no matter what you call the groups, that the "blue" or "elephant" group contains the poor readers.

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Originally Posted by talaniman

Speech said it was bad, I said it was good.

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Well now that's a total lie.

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Originally Posted by speechlesstx

I gave you results and they speak for themselves.







Are aiming low enough yet?

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Okay maybe I misunderstood.

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Originally Posted by talaniman

Okay maybe I misunderstood.

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Thanks buddy, that's better.

These are the people who run the NY state education system
Misspelled Road Sign Points Way to Popular "Jonse" Beach | NBC New York

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Originally Posted by tomder55

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teacherjenn is in the system and appears to disagree with you. But when you talk of "one solution fits all" approaches why don't you also speak of the demonstrably failed public school system that we have had since at least the 1960s ? The progressive solution is to tax more and throw more money into a failed system. My God ! you could put gold tiles in every school with the money wasted by the administrators of almost every district in the country ! Instead ,many schools are in serious state of disrepair .....forget about their primary purpose ;which is to actually educate the kids.
I don't care if you or anyone else considers it tired old rhetoric. When put to the test ,it's worked.

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I would say that Teacher Jenn actually agrees with me. As far as I can tell she is saying that what is needed is a common core curriculum to lift standards. In other words, a more towards a national curriculum.

I am not saying that choice in education is a bad thing per se. What I have said, and will continue to say is that choice is a bad thing when it comes to lifting standards in the basics. I think it is pretty obvious that educational relativism hasn't worked for you. In this respect "choice" has had the opposite effect. You are now competing in the global market place.

It is not the private schools the home schools that are failing our children.

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Originally Posted by speechlesstx

It is not the private schools the home schools that are failing our children.

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Your whole system is failing you and it has nothing to do with public versus private.
Look at your universities. You have some of the best in the world and some of the worst in the world and this has nothing to do with private versus public.

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Originally Posted by Tuttyd

Your whole system is failing you and it has nothing to do with public versus private.
Look at your universities. You have some of the best in the world and some of the worst in the world and this has nothing to do with private versus public.

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Sure it does, private schools educate and public schools don't. College is a whole other subject, though many are plagued by the same problems on a greater scale and the left's answer is to double down on both. It's not an issue of standards, it's an issue of ideology.

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Originally Posted by tomder55

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teacherjenn is in the system and appears to disagree with you. But when you talk of "one solution fits all" approaches why don't you also speak of the demonstrably failed public school system that we have had since at least the 1960s ? The progressive solution is to tax more and throw more money into a failed system. My God ! you could put gold tiles in every school with the money wasted by the administrators of almost every district in the country ! Instead ,many schools are in serious state of disrepair .....forget about their primary purpose ;which is to actually educate the kids.
I don't care if you or anyone else considers it tired old rhetoric. When put to the test ,it's worked.

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Yes, I am in the system. Our district is not wealthy by any means, but we took a hard look at the problems in education. We visited schools in fancy areas with all the resources present. Their test scores weren't much better than ours. We came up with a plan: build a new school staffed by teachers tired of mediocrity. We base every lesson on teaching our students to problem solve and we steer them toward careers in Science, Technology, Engineering, and Math. Next, we allowed students for all over the valley (population 200,000+) to apply, even if they were not in our enrollment area. It worked! We had a wait list of hundreds for the inaugural year and even more this year. If parents are willing to drive their children and purchase uniforms, this is a fantastic opportunity for a public school. We've had visits from all over the state with superintendents and other school groups. Our test scores just arrived yesterday, and I imagine they will be 100 points higher at this school. It is amazing and it shows that public education can work.