Quote:

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Originally Posted by Wondergirl

Who is "they"?

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Obama for one... as a senator in Illinois... REFUSED to vote against partial birth abortions... and in fact to prevent killing a still living baby that was still alive after it was OUTSIDE the womb.

He didn't vote yes... to prevent partial birth abortions... its a matter of public record and got news coverage a couple years ago... as long as you didn't watch the liberal news who avoided it by choice.

He voted present which allowed it to fail. And present is the same as a no vote in such a case.

90th General Assembly
SB0230

http://www.ilga.gov/legislation/legi...900SB0230.html


And the rabid pro-abortion groups which is most of them have the same stance... hack the bits off as they exit the vagina is OK and acceptable to these types.

I am OK up to the FIRST trimester...

3 months is plenty of time in case of rape or other to decide.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by smoothy

Obama for one....as a senator in Illinois....REFUSED to vote against partial birth abortions....and in fact to prevent killing a still living baby that was still alive after it was OUTSIDE the womb.

He didn't vote yes...to prevent partial birth abortions...its a matter of public record and got news coverage a couple years ago....as long as you didn't watch the liberal news who avoided it by choice.

He voted present which allowed it to fail. And present is the same as a no vote in such a case.

90th General Assembly
SB0230

Status of SB0230


And the rabid pro-abortion groups which is most of them have the same stance....hack the bits off as they exit the vagina is ok and acceptable to these types.

I am ok up to the FIRST trimester...

3 months is plenty of time in case of rape or other to decide.

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You do not understand the "present" vote in Illinois.

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Originally Posted by Wondergirl

You do not understand the "present" vote in Illinois.

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I do very well... Its so they can sit on the fence while claiming to be there... so they don't upset either side...

Its really no different than just not showing up at all...

In such a case as clear as preventing LIVE BIRTH ABORTIONS... its an absolutely disgusting exhibition of human callousness.

Because what is a live birth abortion... killing the baby after delivery starts, but before it can fully emerge.

Only a sick SOB can support that... because a minute later it's a crying baby ready to have the umbillical cord cut... its not premature.. it doesn't NEED in incubator to finish developing... there is NOT question at that point of viability.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by smoothy

He voted present which allowed it to fail.

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Did you understand his reasoning for that vote? Did you read what he said?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by smoothy

I do very well.....Its so they can sit on the fence while claiming to be there....

Its really no different than just not showing up at all....

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You couldn't be more wrong. He had the floor and explained in detail why.

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Originally Posted by smoothy

I do very well.....Its so they can sit on the fence while claiming to be there....so they don't upset either side....

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Not true.

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Originally Posted by NeedKarma

Did you understand his reasoning for that vote? Did you read what he said?

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I know EXACTLY what he said...

He refused to vote to oppose partial birth Abortion. That by its very nature means he approved it..,. just didn't have the balls to go on the record as voting against it.

If you stood on the street and watched some kid rape an old lady... and you didn't try to stop him or go after sloppy seconds... does that absolve your responsibility for letting it happen by doing nothing?

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Originally Posted by smoothy

I know EXACTLY what he said....I don't have the same problems you have understanding clear and obvious issues.

He refused to vote to oppose partial birth Abortion. That by its very nature means he approved it.,..just didn't have the balls to go on the record as voting against it.

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Nope, you're wrong again.
You're told us so many times how high level you are, how you are privy to governemnt stuff that would amaze us, etc. Amaze me and show me the unedited transcript of what he said.

Clearly this is a hot button topic. But we are not going to let this become a personal fight.

Too much rehtoric and generalities are being thrown around.

I anm also pro-choice and I detest the label pro-life for the same reasons Synnen cited.

From my experience most pro choicers are NOT pro abortion. They generally do not agree with having an abortion but do not feel they have the right to deny that choice to others. However, anti choice proponents think nothing of imposing their moralityand their opinions on others. To me that's the whole crux of the matter. It really matters little whether the choice is abortion or hair color. I know that will anger some people but that's my feeling and I'm sticking to it.

This country was founded on "life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness". So it amazes me that anyone can advocate denying someone simply because they have a different religious belief. And that's what it comes down to. It is a religious belief that life begins at conception. As J_9 pointed out, a fetus cannot survive until about 24 weeks.

Now, if anyone wants to continue a CIVIL discussion feel free. But keep it civil or it will be removed.

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Originally Posted by Wondergirl

Not true.

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Prove it then... you are either For something or you are against it... read my post above to Needkarma...

Voting present is like standing there watching the rape happen. No different. If you do nothing then you allow it to continue.. which means you supported the rapist and not the victim.

Its like Bill Clinton try and argue he didn't have sex with Monica Lewinsky AFTER the Blue dress incident. Or try the "It depends on what the definition of "is" is." argument.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by smoothy

Prove it then....you are either For something or you are against it....read my post above to Needkarma...

Voting present is like standing there watching the rape happen. No different. If you do nothing then you allow it to conitnue..which means you supported the rapist and not the victim.

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The "present" vote in Illinois means "not enough information" and "may be unconstitutional" and "this needs more thought and discussion."

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Originally Posted by Wondergirl

No, back up the bus. If you don't like abortion, you will do everything to avoid getting pregnant including abstaining from sex.

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Which, when you are raped or being sexually abused by a relative, isn't exactly the top thing on your mind. "Gee, Uncle Albert, let's not have sex because I might get pregnant and we don't want to contribute to the number of women getting abortions because that's just EVIL"

Yeah. That.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Synnen

Which, when you are raped or being sexually abused by a relative, isn't exactly the top thing on your mind. "Gee, Uncle Albert, let's not have sex because I might get pregnant and we don't want to contribute to the number of women getting abortions because that's just EVIL"

Yeah. That.

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Consensual sex. I don't consider rape as "having sex."

Smoothy--if the child has a horrible abnormality or genetic disease and it's not FOUND until 20 weeks (that's when they looked for it during MY pregnancy)---what do you think the parents should do? Give birth to a child that will only live a year? Go through the rest of the pregnancy and give birth to a child that will never eat without a feeding tube or progress beyond the vegetable state? Could you REALLY condemn parents for aborting a child that would be in pain for all of its short life, and make them deal with all of the emotions that go with that?

I realize that not all abortions, including second trimester abortions, are for medical reasons. But some ARE. Would you consign the ones that ARE using it for valid medical reasons to hell just because some people abuse it?

Hello again, righty's:

I know you would require one of those lefty sluts to bear the child of her rapist... But, if your own daughter was raped and became pregnant, would you really further traumatize her by MAKING her bear the child of her rapist?

Nahhhh.. You wouldn't.

excon

Just throwing this out there.

FactCheck.org : Obama and 'Infanticide'

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Wondergirl

The "present" vote in Illinois means "not enough information" and "may be unconstitutional" and "this needs more thought and discussion."

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Its appears to be the same as voting "no"

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Illinois_Senator




Voting in the Illinois Senate is done by members pushing one of three buttons. Unlike most states, the Illinois Senate allows members to vote yes, no, or present. It takes 30 affirmative votes to pass legislation during final action. The number of negative votes does not matter. Therefore the use of the present vote has the same effect as voting no.

Hello, again:

Personally, I'm not here to discuss Obama's views on abortion.. I'm interested in YOURS.

Tell me how you'd MAKE your daughter bear her rapists kid... What if it was your WIFE? You'd take the rapists child in?? You'd raise him? Nahhh, you wouldn't.. Who're you trying to kid?

excon

I think if we all practice our religion and family values at home then you should NOT be telling your neighbors how to practice their religion and family values. Since its legal in America to have an abortion in the first trimester, its between you, your god(?) and your doctor, so just butt out of my business.

See how easy that was? I can't help it if you are so backwards that you were never properly educated at HOME by informed and properly educated adults, that you have no clue about what to do about taking care of your own bodies.

If you depend on your church to tell you what to do, have at it. But I am not comfortable about another religion telling me what to do about about sex or anything else in my house.

I trust my wife on these matters, not Obama, or yo mama! And certainly not some self righteous politician. Or nosy self righteous citizen.

I'm pro-life and pro-choice. I'm for life and I like a woman's right to choose what to do with her body.