Does the Constitution also cover onslaughts from Mother Nature and how we defend ourselves from her?

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Originally Posted by Synnen

/shrug---that was the whole POINT of the floodgates.

This way, a couple hundred people are in a disaster zone rather than a couple thousand.

Makes sense to me. Especially since they already KNEW that that was the choice that would be made, via those letters they were sent every year.

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Basically there is only so much humans can do to control nature. I just read this in Forbes and did not realize the natural flow of the river was severely disrupted by all these grand engineering schemes . Evidently the river is trying to right things by flowing where it wants to go.
Is This The Year The Atchafalaya River 'Captures' The Mississippi? - Christopher Helman - Fuel - Forbes

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Originally Posted by Wondergirl

Does the Constitution also cover onslaughts from Mother Nature and how we defend ourselves from her?

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Yes that is part of the common defense. That is why the levees were built by the Federal Government in the 1st place .

But the defense isn't "common."

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Originally Posted by Wondergirl

But the defense isn't "common."

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You mean the rapper ? No it isn't.. :cool:

The press is portraying this area as farmland... Well yes there are some farms... but it's mostly swamp land... the logical place to open floodgates into. When they constructed I 10 through the area they needed 18 miles of bridgework through the swamplands.

The link I provided indicates that there has been almost 40 years of engineering attempting to keep the flow of the river on it's current course. It looks to be a failure. The river wants to flow through the Atchafalaya Basin and it looks like sooner or later it will.

"Ten thousand river commissions, with the mines of the world at their back, cannot tame that lawless stream, cannot curb it or confine it, cannot say to it, 'Go here,' or 'Go there,' and make it obey. These West Point engineers cannot succeed in caging the beast. They imagine that they can fetter and handcuff that river and boss him. They might as well bully the comets in their courses and undertake to make them behave, as try to bully the Mississippi into right and reasonable conduct."
Mark Twain

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Originally Posted by Wondergirl

But the defense isn't "common."

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Do you mean "common" as in it's for "everyone"?

Because really--there's a LOT that the US Army Corps of Engineers does that doesn't benefit me in the least. Same with the Army Reservists.

Frankly, how does "rebuilding New Orleans after they were idiotic enough to use their federal funds provided for that purpose to NOT rebuild the levees and still let people live below sea level" work for the "common defense" of the rest of the United States?

These people built on flood plains that they KNEW could be flooded. They were reminded every single year that their land was on a flood plain, and that the USACoE could open those floodgates in order to alleviate flooding downriver.

Frankly, I'd rather use my tax dollars to open the floodgates than to rebuild refineries--or NOT rebuild them and have gas prices rise even higher.

I'm sorry that those people will have damaged homes--but they DID get warning and DID have time to move their possessions, so it's not as if they lost everything. I'm NOT sorry we opened the floodgates.

PS--I live less than 1/2 mile from the mighty Mississippi, though granted I am a LOT upriver from all of this. When you live near the river, you know what you are risking.

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Originally Posted by Synnen

PS--I live less than 1/2 mile from the mighty Mississippi, though granted I am a LOT upriver from all of this. When you live near the river, you know what you are risking.

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My bil is on a bluff overlooking it in the Quad Cities area. And yes, it's stupid to live in a floodplain, on a delta, but the land was cheap and fertile.

This is why those along the Mississippi should be aware of where they're living and the inherent risks:

http://whale.wheelock.edu/watersheds...ippi/MISS.JPEG

Even the rivers and streams in my area along with the sediment they carry dump into the Mississippi.

This is more crucial than the Army Corp building jetty to save billionaires homes on the beach.I don't think it can be compared to the government picking winners and losers.

The Mississippi has historically been the commercial highway of the nation since the territory was purchased . Of course the maintenance of the Mississippi a big part of the common defense. During the Civil War... When the South couldn't contol it anymore their fate was sealed .
While it was in flood stage barge traffic was halted . Those refineries down river are critical to the economy... like it or not. This move was the logical one to prevent larger hardship .

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Originally Posted by excon

Hello:

Now, I dunno about you, but if I built my house where it was safe, and the government decided to flood MY house instead those built where it was UNSAFE, simply because they had more MONEY or there were MORE of them, would really PISS me off. In fact, I think I'd try to stop them.

What legal justification do they have for doing these things???

excon

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Hi ex. I am sympathetic to the plight of people in the path of flood waters, however, once again we have decisions made on the principle of the lesser evil. It was a lesser evil to assassinate OBL last week and it is a lesser evil to permit flooding of low level land particularly as the system was designed to flood this land in the event of catastrophy. Yes those who mistakenly though it could never happen again have a right to say why aren't we protected, but the protection should have been that they weren't allowed to build there in the first place. Who do you blame? Those who want the system to work or the corrupt officials who benefited from sale of flood prone land

Let me see a property that has not flooded since the levy was build, and has seen monster floods over years and years.

I have a commercial building in that wonderful area. Guess what, insurance won't pay ( or refuse at this point) since this was not a natural flood, but caused because of the actions of the Government.

I will most likely living in a nursing home before there is ever a settlement on this.

And that is if and when one can ever ( if we ever) can get to the property, since bridges under maybe 20 feet of river may not ever be safe to use and who knows if they will ever rebuild a dozen small bridges to allow people back in. And if they do, how many years.

So who should be paying me for my loss ?

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Originally Posted by Fr_Chuck

So who should be paying me for my loss ?

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Chuck I suggest you send your bill to the government, but I expect there will be some sort of joint civil case or class action mounted by people such as yourself, since it is unlikely you are alone, who knows it may even set a precident

Who's to blame ? Maybe the local governements up river who developed along the waterfront and built barriers to prevent flooding there ? Blame St Louis ?
Maybe blame the residence living on the Arkansas River in Kansas who sandbagged to prevented that river from cresting over it's bank.
Come on... this was the logical remedy to what would've been a bigger disaster .

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Originally Posted by tomder55

Who's to blame ? Maybe the local governements up river who developed along the waterfront and built barriers to prevent flooding there ? Blame St Louis ?
Maybe blame the residence living on the Arkansas River in Kansas who sandbagged to prevented that river from cresting over it's bank.
Come on ...this was the logical remedy to what would've been a bigger disaster .

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The disaster Tom is that large populations are allowed to live on flood plains. You had better start building bigger levies over there because climate change is going to give you bigger snow fall and bigger melts. I would say abandon New Orleans now, what was acceptable last century isn't acceptable now, how many communities will you destroy for what; a few decrept buildings and swamp neighbourhoods

Then again... population needs to live somewhere. We have made bargains with water before the Dutch started taming the low lands of Europe.

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Originally Posted by Fr_Chuck

Let me see a property that has not flooded since the levy was build, and has seen monster floods over years and years.

I have a commercial building in that wonderful area. Guess what, insurance won't pay ( or refuse at this point) since this was not a natural flood, but caused because of the actions of the Government.

I will most likely living in a nursing home before there is ever a settlement on this.

And that is if and when one can ever ( if we ever) can get to the property, since bridges under maybe 20 feet of river may not ever be safe to use and who knows if they will ever rebuild a dozen small bridges to allow people back in. And if they do, how many years.

So who should be paying me for my loss ?

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What were you advised by your insurance company when you bought property in an area that was KNOWN to be a flood plain if the flood gates were opened? What about that letter you got every year that told you that the ACoE would be opening those gates if necessary to alleviate the amount of water in the Mississippi?

Or am I misreading you, and your property is in the area of the blasted levees, and not the area of the flood gates?

Some home owners took matters into their own hand

Mississippi River flooding: Residents build homemade dams to saves houses | Mail Online

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Originally Posted by tomder55

then again ...population needs to live somewhere. We have made bargains with water before the Dutch started taming the low lands of Europe.

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Rubbish, population needs to be controlled for its own good. You were building high rise before everybodyelse too. The Dutch will find their decision was unwise too, at least they are working with a "constant" whereas you were working on supposition, you still might not have seen the thousand year flood.

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Rubbish, population needs to be controlled for its own good.

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You never cease to amaze me with your Malthusian
Tendencies.

I seem to remember mother nature attempting to do just that in the lower lying regions in your neck of the woods recently.