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Well Tom the crisis has come and gone and yet you still have your head stuck up your collective arses. As the world financial markets melt down once again are you proud of the performance of your leaders? My calling on this one has been prophetic it is indeed PIGUS or is it just USPIGQuote:
Originally Posted by tomder55
Clete this crisis did not reach Greek levels [or any of the other PIGS... yet ] .
We still get to print phoney currency .The Greeks need the good will of the rest of the EU to print phoney money. The Fed meets next week to crank up the printing presses again.
Our giverment blew it by not cutting deep enough . These arses are proud of slowing the rate of increase of the debt ;which now exceeds 100% GDP.
Tom YET is the operative word but S&P don't share your optimism for another round of quantitative easing, a euphonism for printing money, and in anticipation they have downgraded the US. I expect that money will now pour into Australia as a safe haven for AAA investmentQuote:
Originally Posted by tomder55
S&P downgrades U.S. credit rating - CNN.com
Read it and weep because there is much pain coming because your republicans couldn't see the wood for the trees. We expect interest rates to fall here while they increase there. When that happens we will be looking for some skilled people in our construction industry. Happy days are here again
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iL0Qt7IF8Q4
You are reading it wrong. The conservative and TP Republicans got it 100% correct. The market is reacting to the minimal debt reduction in the final bil ; and the prospect that they did nothing to address that in the future. The Republicans passed 2 bills out of the House that addressed it . The Democrat Senate and do nothing Democrat President stopped that and brought us to the brink.Quote:
because your republicans couldn't see the wood for the trees.
By the way S&P's rating may force some instituions to sell off US bonds. Most more likely will change their bylaws so they can hold US debt . Compared to other options US Treasuries are still the safest bet in the world .
No Tom S&P have said it themselves, it was the process, the delay in approving the limit. They don't care about the facts your government want to present, you can't spin yourselves out of this one. They know you can't do the hard yards, lift tax and drastically cut programs the way you would have to in an IMF intervention. Your problem is that talkfest that mascarades as a parliament. You see the system requires everyone not just one house to approve bills. The idea is there is some sort of consensus, a word very foreign to US politics. Those checks and balances were placed there for a reason. The idea is no one rules by decree; not the President, not the house and not the Senate and in this case (2) the house decree was unacceptable. This is because the house is not all powerfulQuote:
Originally Posted by tomder55
That's correct ;NEITHER side balked until the end when the Repubics in the House caved . But the House did the responsible thing . It passed legislation twice before a very watered and insufficient bill was passed by all parties.
They are right .Spending cuts in the compromise don't come close to solving the fiscal mess. They are a joke to what is needed . The interest on the debt is greater than the cuts agreed to .Quote:
"The downgrade reflects our opinion that the fiscal consolidation plan that Congress and the administration recently agreed to falls short of what, in our view, would be necessary to stabilize the government's medium-term debt dynamics,"
The PresidenWhen the Bush era tax rates expire ;the President will get his beloved tax increases .
Tom I think you see this the wrong way, tax as some sort of imposition or democrat plot, in reality Bush went too far giving tax cuts at a time of expanding expenditures, pandering to his electorial base and now the chickens have come home to roost. This is unpalitiable but a real solution requires hard yards. If you don't like the scenario, migrate, but don't think Obama is doing anything other than trying to restore some sort of status quo. You can get out of this by expanding your economy or by reducing expenditure, two mutually exculsive alternatives at the moment or you can man up, kick those girly men republicans in the nether regions and do what you know you must do to turn things around.
The Repubics don't have the power to do anything on their own until the Obots are defeated in 2012 .
Then perhaps real spending reductions ;regulatory and tax reform will be the tools to begin expanding the economy .
What we are told by the dems is to ignore the scores of business leaders around the country who almost uniformely say that it is government hostility to business and the uncertainty of the business climate that prevents economic expansion.
Tom, Tom, here we go again, as the business climate has been the same here for 15 years or more and the cats have gotten really fat. Don't be mad because the middle, and the left just isn't rolling over to the right, and cutting what you have been trying like heck to destroy, the socialist programs for ordinary people while preserving the golden goose for the fat cats. Of course shrinking governments, jobs, revenues, and the economy, makes debt, and deficits loom larger. Simple math tells you that. Doesn't mean you guys are right... er... correct, at least not all the way.
It's the unwillingness to meet in the middle and make progress that holds this country back, nothing else, not one side or another getting its way. Heck a bigger debt to keep the states going without tax cuts of the first stimulus, we wouldn't be having this argument.
But half stepping it with watered down tactics is why we are. Simple, math.
That we have proven inflexible is our problem, because now we get nothing done. Simple math, the Tea party cannot take over the world, or the country, so I see compromise and debate, real debate, not ideology coming back in 2012. Sorry Clete, you guys are growing for sure, but you will be a long time in understanding that every fart we make here is not the end of the world, and Standard and Poors can rattle the cage, but their credibility, and motives are deeply suspect.
Believe it or not, rumors of the American demise are greatly exaggerated, even if one of three rating houses think so.
Tal, I think you miss it, america is in decline and there is no coming golden age, you have actually had it and the greedy stole the golden apple. The big problem of being a reserve currency is that, in fact, every fart you make does affect the rest of the world, if in nothing else than erroding confidence. S&P have rattled your cage and they are protecting their arse because someone wanted to blame them for the last GFC. At that time they were considered too lenient in their views, perhaps even negligent, so this time they are making sure they are not the ones caught short. In doing so they may have precipitiated a crisis by pointing out the obvious, your political climate does affect your soveriegn credit rating. So you can blame a certain group of ****heads for this one, the opportunists who wanted to force an issue from opposition. It is a great pity that in your system those who control the house don't form government. In other democracies if this situation arose the government would change and the issues would be less emotiveQuote:
Originally Posted by talaniman
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