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Originally Posted by tomder55

But it's time to begin the dismantling of the failed socialist experiments.

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Hello again, tom:

And, that's WHY it won't happen.. Your side doesn't want to FIX Medicare and SS. You want to dismantle them. As I said earlier, that's an assault on the middle class, and the middle class knows it.

You DO understand, don't you, that I SUBSCRIBE to the notion that our debt is NOT sustainable?? And that there ARE ways to reduce spending and raise revenue to a point where these programs are PAID for, WITHOUT putting our free market system, or our national defense at risk. You REFUSE to even consider that that's possible.

So, it's clear. This ISN'T about the budget... It's about the opportunity to CRUSH hated "socialist experiments". At least you have the balls to say so.

excon

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I suggest there ARE ways to reduce spending and raise revenue to a point where these programs are PAID for, WITHOUT putting our free market system at risk. You REFUSE to even look at them.

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Of course I do . It's called budget cuts and economic growth.

You mischaracterize my position by calling it 'dismantling '. If you were truly free market then you would see that there is free market alternatives to command and control big government solutions . But the nanny state is locked in 1930s industrial era solutions that began failing years ago. They think that the solution is to ever increasing tax obligations ,not only on the few rich ;but ultimately on us all.
The fact that the President in the face of a 2010 smack down ,and a refutiation of his irresponsible policies proves that he is the intractible one . Not me.
You have only proposed greater decreases in our national defense for spending reductions and tax the rich for revenue increases .
What else have you got?

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Originally Posted by tomder55

You have only proposed greater decreases in our national defense for spending reductions and tax the rich for revenue increases .
What else have you got?

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Hello again, tom:

Glad you asked. Of course, I've proposed a LOT over the years. You'll recognize some of it.. I'm NOT a government is the solution kind of guy. I'm also NOT a Reagan, government IS the problem kind of guy either. I'm an entrepreneur. I believe in FIXING the problem - not throwing money at it..

You understand that I don't know HOW to do it, but medical costs are rising at unsustainable rates... That CAN be fixed. That's a big one. We can make the tax code fair for everybody. I'm happy with a straight line tax, with the ends cocked to raise more from the rich, and less from the poor. It doesn't have to be cocked very much on either end. We can end 2 of the 4 wars we're in. We can end the drug war. We can END the NSA spying aparachik... We can INVEST in infrastructure. We can INVEST in alternate fuels. We can INVEST in education. We can END teacher tenure. Ok, raise the retirement age to 66 - maybe 67.

That SHOULD satisfy you because it DOES result in smaller government, but it probably won't... If we did that stuff, along with others, I'll bet we CAN operate on a balanced budget, pay DOWN the deficit, and KEEP ALL the promises we made. Really, my fix would save TRILLIONS!

You HAVE heard those things from me before, haven't you? I don't want to burden my grandchildren either. But, I'm not holding my breath. That's why I'm buying gold for them.

excon

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Originally Posted by excon

. I'm happy with a straight line tax, with the ends cocked to raise more from the rich, and less from the poor. It doesn't have to be cocked very much on either end. excon

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Im curious and not trying to hijack the thread but which tax are you talking about here? The Fair tax or the Flat tax ? Both have been on the table awhile.

Hello dad:

A relatively flat tax, say 7% that rises to 11% for the very wealthy, and drops to 3% for the very poor. That's it. No deductions or credits or exceptions. Everybody, including corporations, pay the same thing. We can accomplish this with a ONE page tax law.

excon

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Originally Posted by excon

Hello dad:

A relatively flat tax, say 7% that rises to 11% for the very wealthy, and drops to 3% for the very poor. That's it. No deductions or credits or exceptions. Everybody, including corporations, pay the same thing. We can accomplish this with a ONE page tax law.

excon

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I tend to like the Fair tax proposal that is out there and its very near the same lines as you are stating.

Here is something interesting for doing business in the U.S.

Doing Business in United States - World Bank Group


Check the "Taxes" section. Interesting figures.

No ex, I'm not demanding my way or the highway, just first place in fantasy baseball.

I'm all for reforming the tax code and making it more fair. I also adhere to the code of much is required from whom much is given... the rich can and should pay more than the poor. But, the poor don't get off Scot-free either which you seem to agree with.

So, let's cut the crap. I don't want to hear more talking points and fear mongering from our "leaders." No more media spinning how great Obama is at cutting spending, no more telling the world that Republicans hate women, children and poor people. Our president, the patron saint of the "new era of civility," right now is trying to scare the hell out of seniors and parents of children with disabilities. ENOUGH already!

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Originally Posted by speechlesstx

ENOUGH already!

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Just change the channel if you don't like it.

Here is the relevant part of his address:
“One vision has been championed by Republicans in the House of Representatives and embraced by several of their party’s presidential candidates…This is a vision that says up to 50 million Americans have to lose their health insurance in order for us to reduce the deficit. And who are those 50 million Americans? Many are someone’s grandparents who wouldn’t be able afford nursing home care without Medicaid. Many are poor children. Some are middle-class families who have children with autism or Down’s syndrome. Some are kids with disabilities so severe that they require 24-hour care. These are the Americans we’d be telling to fend for themselves.”

It's an appeal to emotion. Both political parties do it. It's nothing new at all.

Hello:

There's nothing inaccurate in what Obama said... People WILL be cut loose under the Republican plan - NOT because they're hated, but because they don't believe we can afford it.

Obama's plan believes we can.

That's as SPINLESS as I can make it.

excon

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Originally Posted by NeedKarma

It's an appeal to emotion. Both political parties do it. It's nothing new at all.

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Thanks for pointing out the obvious. As always, your input is indispensable.

Before the address Paul Ryan was asked if by attempting to address entitlement reform he was opening himself up to demagogic attacks. He replied :
"We are," ...."They are going to demagogue us, and it's that demagoguery that has always prevented political leaders in the past from actually trying to fix the problem."

He probably thought it would come from clowns like Shumer ;not from the President.

Hello again,

Wow. Jon Stewart is right. I didn't know you'd be so hurt by what Obama said.

excon

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Originally Posted by speechlesstx

As always, your input is indispensable.

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Thank you kind sir.

Hi EC.
We finally agree on something. A flat tax! But my proposal goes a bit further. 15% across the board total. This one 15% payment sent to one agency. They could take their share, and by using your zip code dole out the balance to state, county and city in the appropriate amounts. No exemptions, no deductions. Automatically the "rich" pay more because they still pay 15% of their gross income. The "poor" pay less because their income is less. Simple math, not Washington math.

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Originally Posted by 450donn

Automatically the "rich" pay more because they still pay 15% of their gross income.

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It's a good plan but I think that after years after dodging taxes through havens and loopholes the rich would revolt if those were gone. The money would invariably end up offshore more than it is now. It's tough to find a solution that satisfies everyone.

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Originally Posted by excon

Hello again,

Wow. Jon Stewart is right. I didn't know you'd be so hurt by what Obama said.

excon

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That is not the point. There was no substance to his speech beyond raw meat to the base. He started with the lie that the Budget was fine going into the Bush years ;blamed all the budget problems on tax cuts ,and proposed nothing else to fix the immediate or future budget issues.

Agree or disagree with the Ryan plan... it is still a serious proposal . Obama offered nothing in return .

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Originally Posted by tomder55

Agree or disagree with the Ryan plan ....it is still a serious proposal . Obama offered nothing in return .

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Hello again, tom:

I'm not so sure... You'll remember during the health care debate, Obama asked for serious proposals from Republicans... They offered nothing in return except NO.

Ok, they finally did. Obama told them NO.

excon

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Originally Posted by excon

Hello:

There's nothing inaccurate in what Obama said... People WILL be cut loose under the Republican plan - NOT because they're hated, but because they don't believe we can afford it.

Obama's plan believes we can.

That's as SPINLESS as I can make it.

excon

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Where in the plan does it make seniors and parents of children with disabilities "fend for themselves?" It doesn't.