Quote:

---

Quote:
Originally Posted by tomder55
Then perhaps they shouldn't be on the public dole.

Who's on the public dole? We're talking about illegals doing the dirty grunt work that young whites refuse to do.

---

"young whites "(or any American regardless of color) who refuse to work should not be getting extended unemployment benefits.

Quote:

---

Quote:
What are you arguing for ? The exploitation of manual labor. The only way to do those jobs at the labor price is to bring in a bunch of illegals and have employers violate the labor laws.

I'm not arguing for that. I'm against the farmers, etc. who exploit the illegals and pay them under the table. If they didn't do that, the problem would go away.
Quote:
Once that is stopped then the wages will increase to a "fair wage " ,and I gurarantee there are plenty of people in this country legally here willing to do those jobs for a "fair wage" .

I'm not sure what group of "plenty of people" you are talking about who will do even dirty drudge jobs for a "fair wage" (like, how much per hour?) $10? $15? $20?

---

Part of the problem would go away. The other part is the illegals who come here and dilute the labor pool. This problem extends way beyond your stereotypical description of "lettuce pickers " .It permeates into all labor ;especially construction. Are you telling me that there isn't a willing labor force of Americans who won't do construction jobs ? I know better . The unemployment rate of African-American males is astronomical in places like LA etc. . But what construction jobs are available go to illegals in many cases. Yes ,the employers are exploitive . But if that labor pool was not available to exploit then they would have no choice but the hire willing workers at fair wages.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by tomder55

Part of the problem would go away. The other part is the illegals who come here and dilute the labor pool. Yes ,the employers are exploitive . But if that labor pool was not available to exploit then they would have no choice but the hire willing workers at fair wages.

---

Which came first, the farmers who needed laborers (because the whites refused to do such awful work) and who hired a few illegals who told their friends back home who then came north to join in the fun or the illegals standing around, shifting from foot to foot, needing work to do, so some farmers took pity on them?

So if the farmers pay a "fair wage" (we still don't know what that is) to nice (white) young people who are willing to pick fruit in Southern orchards and pick lettuce in Southwestern fields and work in construction and lay roofs and clean motel rooms and wash restaurant dishes, the price of lettuce and homes and roofs and motel rooms and restaurant foods will go up. Is that okay with you?

Btw, I picked fruit in orchards as a teen and my son was a gopher to a construction crew when he was in high school. It was hot, hard, sweaty work for not much money.

Quote:

---

So if the farmers pay a "fair wage" (we still don't know what that is) to nice (white) young people who are willing to pick fruit in Southern orchards and pick lettuce in Southwestern fields and work in construction and lay roofs and clean motel rooms and wash restaurant dishes, the price of lettuce and homes and roofs and motel rooms and restaurant foods will go up. Is that okay with you?

---

Absolutely . Prices will still remain competitive or the farmers,business owners etc. will not be in business long. Maybe it would force them to improve efficienies and /or develop new innovations and processes.

Quote:

---

Btw, I picked fruit in orchards as a teen and my son was a gopher to a construction crew when he was in high school. It was hot, hard, sweaty work for not much money.

---

I won't bore you with all the jobs I've done in my time. I began working ,at least on a part time basis , in the 7th grade and have not missed significant time away fromwork since. Never in my life have I felt a job was beneath me... and no... I don't hire a lawn service,snow shoveler ,cook or house keeper .We do all those ourselves . Mowing the lawn ;taking care of the garden shovelling the drive-way are all good exercise.

And yes we do know what "fair wages "are thanks to the 'all knowing government' that sets minimum wages. Anything above that is based on a job market that is frankly diuted thanks to the availability of an exploitable labor group.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by tomder55

I won't bore you with all the jobs I've done in my time. I began working ,at least on a part time basis , in the 7th grade and have not missed significant time away fromwork since. Never in my life have I felt a job was beneath me...and no.... I don't hire a lawn service,snow shoveler ,cook or house keeper .We do all those ourselves . Mowing the lawn ;taking care of the garden shovelling the drive-way are all good exercise.

---

I'm sure we could match each other, dirty job with dirty job. Unfortunately, young people today don't want these kinds of jobs. Many of them didn't even have to help with chores around the house (for free, much less for money) when they were growing up. My doctor and I were chatting a bit Monday that kids today don't even understand how to look for undone work to do when they are temporarily idle.

Yeah I know. Like I said ,remove them from a life of dependency and they will be in for a rude awakening .

In a market that wasn't distorted ,the laborer would become more valuable because they perform needed services that others don't want to do. In many cases that is true. The plumber and electrician working on their own commands premium prices for their services. But when a construction company can pick from an illegal pool ,diluting the pool of available electrican /plumbers then the domestic electrician /plumber doesn't get the true value for their work.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by tomder55

But when a construction company can pick from an illegal pool ,diluting the pool of available electrican /plumbers then the domestic electrician /plumber doesn't get the true value for their work.

---

So the illegals are professionals in various industries -- electricians and plumbers and engineers? Interesting. My observation was that the owner of the company who did our roof is white and sat in the shade with his lemonade while his Mexican workers were on the roof in the hot sun.

Aren't those white business/company owners who are outsourcing jobs to India and China and South America and depriving U.S. citizens of jobs?

No ,There is no obligation to operate a business inside the US borders... and trust me... it isn't labor costs that drive business away anyway ;it's poor government policies . If government policies drive businesses away it is not the business persons fault if they relocate.

Is it now your position that it is OK to outsource business if you operate inside the borders and import illegal labor ?

Getting back to Reid . Reid is one of these people who want Mexicans to pick his veggies ,clean his house ,mow his lawn ,wipe his butt... but don't move into his neighborhood.

This is a guy who deliberately mocked the crowd of citizens visiting the Capitol Building and their odor.

Hopefully after November he won't have to suffer DC visitor's body odor anymore .

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by tomder55

Is it now your position that it is ok to outsource business if you operate inside the borders and import illegal labor ?

---

Of course not. The hue and cry is that the nasty illegal immigrants who work cheap are taking jobs away from the whites. But white business owners are also taking jobs away from U.S. people and giving them to people in other countries who work cheap.

So let's go after those farmers and business owners and also change the government regs that allow them to get away with this.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by tomder55

Hopefully after November he won't have to suffer DC visitor's body odor anymore .

---

Hello again, tom:

I gather, since you're IN to telling it like it is, that you support Sharron Angle, who is FOR the repeal of Social Security and Medicare, AGAINST abortion EVEN when the pregnancy is due to incest or rape, FOR using her "second amendment remedies" if she DOESN'T win, thinks fluoride in the water is a "communist plot to undermine western democracy" and is just your ordinary, all around, right wing kook.

And, you want her to become a US Senator. Come on, tom. Tell it like it is.

excon

Ex what did you call it on the other thred ? A red herring ?

I voted for McCain although there were many issues about which I disagree with him .He was the 'lesser of the evils' as the saying goes.

If I had a say in the Nevada primary Angle would not have been my first choice. But compared to BO Reid ,yes she is the better choice.

If you don't mind me redirecting my thread for a moment, the left has a couple of more new ways to engage in thoughtful debate this election season. First, from Amorphia Apparel:

http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4140/...2b641aed08.jpg

And my favorite, from former DNC official Erica Payne's new group, the Agenda Project:

Quote:

---

The Agenda Project's goal is to build a powerful, intelligent, well-connected political movement capable of identifying and advancing rational, effective ideas in the public debate and in so doing ensure our country's enduring success.

---

Their first "intelligent" foray into "advancing rational, effective ideas in the public debate" is... well, Askmehelpdesk won't even let me print it. You can see it here (Content warning).

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by excon

Hello again, tom:

I gather, since you're IN to telling it like it is, that you support Sharron Angle, who is FOR the repeal of Social Security and Medicare, AGAINST abortion EVEN when the pregnancy is due to incest or rape, FOR using her "second amendment remedies" if she DOESN'T win, thinks fluoride in the water is a "communist plot to undermine western democracy" and is just your ordinary, all around, right wing kook.

And, you want her to become a US Senator. Come on, tom. Tell it like it is.

---

Hello again, Steve:

Thanks for reminding me that this is YOUR thread. I thought it was toms. Oh, well.

So, no, I don't mind you redirecting your own thread. We really need to learn about those kooky left wingers... To be fair, though, I thought our readers would like to be reminded of WHO you support for Harry Reids seat, and what SHE believes in...

Now, if I was judging, and I AM. I'd say the left wingers are ANGRY. I'd say your candidate is NUTS - absolutely BONKERS - yet, she's your gal. Dude!

excon

Um, I think that 'red herring' has already been addressed. I never wanted Angle and thank God I don't live in Nevada, but it doesn't take much to be a better option than Harry Reid.

I have a different interpretation then you do though (and besides, I thought it was those "tea baggers" that were angry), the left is desperate, snooty (or is it snotty) and just plain mean. I don't like snooty, snotty, mean people that think "**** tea" is 'rational' debate... now THAT'S bonkers.