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Originally Posted by paraclete

So you think hot rocks and steam from volcanic activity will solve our power problems, that is a very selective view, what about all the places that don't have these assets, why shouldn't they use nuclear power, and desalination plants require power, where did the US navy get that power from to provide clean water in Haiti? Desalination plants are not the answer to clean water, the answer comes from stopping industry polluting the rivers and drawning large quantities of water for industrial use. We can extract the gas from coal and leave the carbon in the ground, that is an idea worth pursuing but power generation will require some emissions somewhere. Sequastration is not the answer, just a possibility. The answer to famine is either free food or stop subsidising surplus production as in the US and Europe so that local populations will be encouraged to grow their own, unless of course you think an open doors immigration policy is a good thing. Such a policy is very inconvenient for agribusiness and the farmers but noone should be allowed to continue in an unsustainable industry by reason that they are there

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There is so much that can be done but a lot of what is being said is so wrong. Free food IS NOT the answer to feeding the masses. It's the governments in these rinky dink third world countries that are stopping its own people from eating. If you want to feed them then they have to get over it and allow the food to go through no strings attatched.

They don't extract gas from coal. They can grind it into a fine powder and use an injector system to burn it at its most efficient level. They can make liquid gas from coal but its not the same. Simple and efficient water treatment plants can get the water flowing.

Solar is quiet and reliable for producing power and not killing the environment around it. Wind power can be heard for miles and it kills wildlife. As far as electric cars they been around for 100 years. A lot is coming but the hardest thing to change all of this is attitudes.

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Originally Posted by califdadof3

There is so much that can be done but alot of what is being said is so wrong. Free food IS NOT the answer to feeding the masses. Its the governments in these rinky dink third world countries that are stopping its own people from eating. If you want to feed them then they have to get over it and allow the food to go through no strings attatched.

They dont extract gas from coal. They can grind it into a fine powder and use an injector system to burn it at its most efficient level. They can make liquid gas from coal but its not the same. Simple and efficient water treatment plants can get the water flowing.

Solar is quiet and reliable for producing power and not killing the enviroment around it. Wind power can be heard for miles and it kills wildlife. As far as electric cars they been around for 100 years. Alot is coming but the hardest thing to change all of this is attitudes.

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I think you have missed it there coal seam gas is an important technology and source of fuel for power generation, no need to dig at all, of course it may not have reached you yet, special interests being what they are.

World famine and hunger will not be solved by hand outs but by making sure what is needed is produced on site. Your attitude in this regard needs to change. Who makes the third world countries rinky dink, some high minded first worlder who think everything should be up to their standard just because they exist

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Originally Posted by paraclete

I think you have missed it there coal seam gas is an important technology and source of fuel for power generation, no need to dig at all, of course it may not have reached you yet, special interests being what they are.

World famine and hunger will not be solved by hand outs but by making sure what is needed is produced on site. Your attitude in this regard needs to change. who makes the third world countries rinky dink, some high minded first worlder who think everything should be up to their standard just because they exist

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It's the leaders of those countries that make them Rinky Dink. Look at the current differences between the way things are handled in Haiti and in Chile. Its not about standards that Im setting for a population. Its about a government that exists solely for itself and not for its people. They are the ones standing in the way of solutions. Do you have any link for this coal thing your talking about? Im not aware of it or it could be a regional thing. There are gas pockets within coal mines but I don't think that is what you were talking about.

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Originally Posted by paraclete

World famine and hunger will not be solved by hand outs but by making sure what is needed is produced on site.

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Who determines what is needed? The Soviets tried this out and got famines.


G&P

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Originally Posted by califdadof3

Its the leaders of those countries that make them Rinky Dink. Look at the current differences between the way things are handled in Haiti and in Chile. Its not about standards that Im setting for a population. Its about a government that exists solely for itself and not for its people. They are the ones standing in the way of solutions. Do you have any link for this coal thing your talking about? Im not aware of it or it could be a regional thing. There are gas pockets within coal mines but I dont think that is what you were talking about.

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There are 195,000 hits on Google for coal seam gas here is one of the links
Coal Seam Gas Industry movie
It has already been used here for localised power generation and feeding into the Gas reticulation system enabling recovery of Gas in places where it might be otherwise undesirable to mine. Typically they fracture the coal seam by pumping water into it, recover the water and gas and feed it into turbines to generate electricity or reticulate it for other domestic and industrial uses. Highly efficient and less CO2

The difference between Chile and Haiti is that Haiti is what is called a failed state. Chile might have been like that once but they got it together after some difficult times. Having natural resources to exploit helps a great deal. When you have money anything is possible. Haiti is a basket case but then most former French colonies are. Whose fault is it that there are failed states, the local people for being backward and uneducated, or the international community for not having the necessary responsibility. The international community, including the near neighbour US, have been quite happy for Haiti to remain in this state until the spotlight is turned on it, and, oh my, goodness me, we have to do something about this. What could they have done, well instead of exporting their industries to China they could have developed Haiti but I expect it just didn't suit. I expect Haiti to become rich now that offshore oil has been discovered.

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Originally Posted by inthebox

Who determines what is needed? The Soviets tried this out and got famines.


G&P

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The Soviets were dills who forgot people need an incentive to work. i.e. you pays peanuts you gets monkeys

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Originally Posted by paraclete

The difference between Chile and Haiti is that Haiti is what is called a failed state. Chile might have been like that once but they got it together after some difficult times. Having natural resources to exploit helps a great deal. When you have money anything is possible. Haiti is a basket case but then most former French colonies are. Whose fault is it that there are failed states, the local people for being backward and uneducated, or the international community for not having the necessary responsibility. The international community, including the near neighbour US, have been quite happy for Haiti to remain in this state until the spotlight is turned on it, and, oh my, goodness me, we have to do something about this. What could they have done, well instead of exporting their industries to China they could have developed Haiti but I expect it just didn't suit. I expect Haiti to become rich now that offshore oil has been discovered.

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Yet this self same "international community" had nothing but complaints about the US sending in aid and teachers to Haiti 30 years ago. So we left and Haiti failed again. American Imperialism or International Responsibility, make up your mind.

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Originally Posted by Catsmine

Yet this self same "international community" had nothing but complaints about the US sending in aid and teachers to Haiti 30 years ago. So we left and Haiti failed again. American Imperialism or International Responsibility, make up your mind.

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What, someone criticised your efforts so you took your ball and went home. Give me a break please. I expect the people of Haiti are still skeptical of american aid. In any case it isn't entirely up to the US, there are other nations in the world. Maybe if you tried aid without strings attached?

Getting back to the topic, I thought (and still think) that global warming causes an imbalance in nature. Hence, you'll have deserts growing in some places and floods becoming more frequent at other places. The same goes for seasons; the summers get hotter and winters colder.

I, however, need to do more research about it. Don't ask me, but I don't know why it's like that. I think of it as a fact, and this thread sort of aroused my curiosity about it.

As for the trees, having more carbon dioxide will make them grow, yes, but they have an optimum intake in carbon dioxide. If they are working at their best, and you have still an excess of CO2, the level of CO2 will keep on rising (as long as they are produced) and will further the global warming.

EDIT: Oh, I just got an interesting article about carbon cycle:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/asia-pacific/8538033.stm

Climate change happens. But, if the American media had been even half as dogged as the European media in covering the climate scandals of the past few months, the climate change agenda would be dead.

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Originally Posted by speechlesstx

Climate change happens. But, if the American media had been even half as dogged as the European media in covering the climate scandals of the past few months, the climate change agenda would be dead.

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This isn't in the same category as s**t happens. Can we be sure climate change is actually happening or is climate more variable than we know. After all, we have a very limited view and are often saying some extreme hasn't happened in living memory. You have vested interests in the media and of course they pander greatly to the political view of the moment.

Where I live there used to be snow on the ground in winter, hasn't happened in a century or more but I have seen the photographs. Does this mean climate change has happened or did they experience a particularly cold winter? It might mean it was so unusual they took photographs. It doesn't mean that we don't get snow in the high country that still happens.

I think we should look at other criteria, after all land use has changed greatly, much more under concrete than ever used to be, much less forest. All this affects local weather.