Clete says petroleum will run out but cannot give a realistic enough date to steer policy. Much of the oil prices are due to the speculative nature of the commodity and international political factors.

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Pretty much everything I have stated before clete, as the price will increase then the R&D will become more desirable

However, as the price increases, then alternatioves become more attractive

Biomass is the answer to small areas, or large complexes, cities will need nuclear

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I agree with everything said here. The motivation will ,in other words, be market forces.

My big focus is for the United States to develop reliable and secure energy supplies . I don't like being held hostage . Therefore you will find most of us believe that it should be all hands on deck . Drill and explore and build more refining capacity... convert natural gas from being used to fuel electricity to use it to power our vehicles instead. Approve a standard breeder reactor model for the whole nation and begin to build them. Where practicle use alternatives . I think windmills cannot be gridded to make a major impact ;but solar technology can be a fine supplemental source.

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Originally Posted by tomder55

Clete says petroleum will run out but cannot give a realistic enough date to steer policy. Much of the oil prices are due to the speculative nature of the commodity and international political factors.

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Tom the unknown is whether there are new fields, we are already at the peak for known resources, so the time to act, to steer policy, is now.

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My big focus is for the United States to develop reliable and secure energy supplies . I don't like being held hostage . Therefore you will find most of us believe that it should be all hands on deck . Drill and explore and build more refining capacity... convert natural gas from being used to fuel electricity to use it to power our vehicles instead. Approve a standard breeder reactor model for the whole nation and begin to build them. Where practicle use alternatives . I think windmills cannot be gridded to make a major impact ;but solar technology can be a fine supplemental source.

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Yes we must develop more capacity until we improve our technology and loose our dependency, natural gas is already used to power vehicles in many countries, it is the US that is behind in using this technology as it is in using breeder reactors for base load generation. Wind and solar have a big draw back they are not available all of the time but there are others, wave in particular which can be used for base load. Once again it is behavioral modification which will do more to solve the problem than new plants. What we really need to do is get the environmentalists out of the way because they find fault with every alternative course of action

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Originally Posted by tomder55

Clete says petroleum will run out but cannot give a realistic enough date to steer policy. Much of the oil prices are due to the speculative nature of the commodity and international political factors.

I agree with everything said here. The motivation will ,in other words, be market forces.

My big focus is for the United States to develop reliable and secure energy supplies . I don't like being held hostage . Therefore you will find most of us believe that it should be all hands on deck . Drill and explore and build more refining capacity .... convert natural gas from being used to fuel electricity to use it to power our vehicles instead. Approve a standard breeder reactor model for the whole nation and begin to build them. Where practicle use alternatives . I think windmills cannot be gridded to make a major impact ;but solar technology can be a fine supplemental source.

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Tom

Your argument is not one that has any credibility

Let me explain, the more people in a country, the more growth in a country the more oil you will use

The more oil you will use, the bigger the demand, the higher the price

The higher the price, the more attractive alternative energy becomes

On top of that, why are you insisting on chasing the pot at the end of the rainbow?

Oil is and will run out, but not before the price increases dramatically, so why wait till this happens, find alternative fuels today, use them tomorrow, and by the end of the week, motors will be electric and not oil based

Pollution is cut dramtically, oil consumption is reduced and your market especially becomes less dependent on foreign nations

The answer Tom is not to try to find more oil - it is finite!

phlanx I fully understand that oil is the present technology and not the future. However ;until such alternatives are viable we fuel our economy on carbon based energy sources. When we find the alternatives we will certainly adopt them. That is how it has always worked in the past.

But until then I see no reason to base policy on a fantasy . We use oil and will continue to do so in the immediate future. That alone is enough justification to continue our exploration and exploitation of known supplies.

I know what your true reasoning is here. If by government decree the issue is forced ,then the alternatives will somehow magically appear sooner. That's not how it works . I already explained that with my Edison example. We did not build an oil infrastructure until private initiative discovered an abundant supply. Then the conversion happened rapidly .

And Clete; our behavior will modify just as rapidly when such alternatives are economically viable.

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Originally Posted by tomder55

phlanx I fully understand that oil is the present technology and not the future. However ;until such alternatives are viable we fuel our economy on carbon based energy sources. When we find the alternatives we will certainly adopt them. That is how it has always worked in the past.

But until then I see no reason to base policy on a fantasy . We use oil and will continue to do so in the immediate future. That alone is enough justification to continue our exploration and exploitation of known supplies.

I know what your true reasoning is here. If by government decree the issue is forced ,then the alternatives will somehow magically appear sooner. That's not how it works . I already explained that with my Edison example. We did not build an oil infrastructure until private initiative discovered an abundant supply. Then the conversion happened rapidly .

And Clete; our behavior will modify just as rapidly when such alternatives are economically viable.

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No mate, I don't think anything will magically appear, what I do understand to be true is R&D takes time

Models, projects must all be looked at and judged so the technology can be born, that is how it has always worked

What I campaign for is assistance in shortening the length of time it takes to complete this process, and this requires financial assistance, something the government is in a position to do

Oil research will continue because it is economically viable to do and only requires a broader control of the US Dollar to keep

Humans are creatures of habit, and more often than not need to be pushed out of this habit, filling the car at the pumps or plugging in to the mains does not stop you from getting to a-b now does it?

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Originally Posted by tomder55

I'm sorry TUT ;these revelations cannot be dismissed. If there is no integrity in the scientific method then why shouldn't we conclude that all facts that science discovers is based on subjective and predetermined outcomes instead of the vaunted scientific method ?

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Hello p:

Salvo!

It may help your argument if you understood WHO you're arguing with... These are ANTI-scientists. These are Intelligent Design folks. You can't win.

excon

PS> Same thing with the health care debate.. They don't want a DEBATE. They want to KILL it. They think health care reform is a commie plot.

Sometimes, though, their REAL feelings come out, like toms above.

Morning Ex

All is well I trust :D

I guess your right, stuck in their ways, without a clue how to change

I am in the car game, and there is very little sweeter than the sound of a good V8, possibly a V10 :)

But even I can see that this is old and past due, and electric engines charged from renewable sources is the way forward

SO I really don't see how they can try to kill what everbody else sees as the future

Ex you know better. I can produce hundeds of examples on this cite where I have been a strong science supporter... including evolution.

Please honestly depict my positions.