Ask Me Help Desk - Can't handle the heat

Speech,
I don't see where they are planning to disrupt any proceedings - could you point that out for me since this is the point in question?

Quote:

Originally Posted by NeedKarma

speech,
I don't see where they are planning to disrupt any proceedings - could you point that out for me since this is the point in question?

Can you tell me where in the OP that that is the point in question? I didn't think so.

Quote:

Originally Posted by NeedKarma

speech,
I don't see where they are planning to disrupt any proceedings - could you point that out for me since this is the point in question?

Gee... and I thought that the point was to prove that these "spontaneous uprisings" were engineered by the GOP and its allies.

But the point has changed, I guess. Couldn't prove it, so you're dropping it. NOW the point is to prove that the people asking questions are "disrupting" the proceedings.

I haven't heard of any proceedings being disrupted. What I have seen and heard is that people are asking questions and they are not getting answers. The only things being disrupted are the Dem talking points on health care and their plans to ram it down our throats. Because talking points can't answer pointed questions meant to get to the heart of the matter. The Dems are realizing that their talking points don't stand up to facts and good questions. The Dems are realizing that their plan for ramming health care down our throats is being disrupted.

Elliot

Quote:

Originally Posted by ETWolverine

Gee... and I thought that the point was to prove that these "spontaneous uprisings" were engineered by the GOP and its allies.

But I did.

Quote:

Originally Posted by NeedKarma

But I did.

And I showed you how it started with one woman. It doesn't get any more grassroots than that.

Quote:

Originally Posted by NeedKarma

But I did.

No you didn't. What you proved, with your own posts, was that the organizing was done by grass roots groups... in specific you proved that Connecticut Tea Party Patriots is the group that sent out that memo that you refer to as "organizing".

You then tried to draw a connection between the "spontaneous uprisings" and various GOP-related and insurance company related groups. But you never made the connection between Connecticut Tea Party Patriots, the group that you proved was doing the organizing, and any of the agencies or lobbying groups that you say was behind them. You never made the connection between the group that put out THIS MEMO to organize THIS EVENT and any GOP-related agency and lobbying group.

That's what I meant by "nebulous connections". Just because a lobbying group MAY have been involved in helping organize the tea parties back in April (which was not true for the most part), that does not mean that they were in any way involved in organizing THIS EVENT. You cannot draw that connection based on any evidence you have provided.

You are grasping at straws to try to find a connection between the tea party groups and GOP lobbyists, and cannot make the connection between those groups and any lobbyists with regard to THIS EVENT.

Elliot

Hello again, El:

Deny all you like that the health care industry isn't behind it, and I've got a bridge to sell you...

What's the difference anyway? You're a supporter of business. So, if it's the business interests who are doing it, so what? Why would you deny that they would do that stuff? If I was an insurance executive, that's exactly what I would do, and that's exactly what I'm sure they're doing.

excon

Quote:

Originally Posted by excon

Hello again, El:

Deny all you like that the health care industry isn't behind it, and I've got a bridge to sell you.....

What's the difference anyway? You're a supporter of business. So, if it's the business interests who are doing it, so what? Why would you deny that they would do that stuff? If I was an insurance executive, that's exactly what I would do, and that's exactly what I'm sure they're doing.

excon

The difference is... saying that insurance companies are against this health care "reform" gets a "big whoop". Who cares, they're biased anyway.

But if the majority of AMERICANS are against this as individuals, then it becomes an issue of politicians doing what they were elected to do... vote for what the PEOPLE want.

That's the difference. And the impression that the Dems are trying to make is that the former is the case. They are trying SOOO hard... and failing miserably.

Want to know why? Because most Americans are of the same opinion of Obama's health care plan as these Tea Party folks. It's not so hard for people who are angry at the plan to believe that other people would be angry about the plan too, and wouldn't need corporate or lobbyist backing to get them to say their piece. Which is exactly what's happening. It's so easy to believe it because THEY believe it too. And if the Dems keep denying that people can feel this way without corporate backing, they are going to alienate the people who share those feelings. THAT is why this is backfiring on the Dems.

However, you can try to claim that there is a connection between the GOP lobbyists and the Tea Party groups all you want. If you believe it... well, I'm sure you also believe that Elvis is still alive and kickin' back with the aliens. Got your tin hat on?

Elliot

Quote:

Originally Posted by ETWolverine

Seems to me that for all their talk about how Palin couldn't handle the heat as Governor of Alaska and was forced to quit, the Dems are the ones who are acting like a bunch of crybabies when a few of their town hall meetings don't go as planned.

Seems to me that the Dems can't handle it when their positions are questioned. They're so flustered that they've had to put out official statements complaining about "organized mobs" disrupting their town hall meetings.

Boo hoo.

You reap what you sow. Their organized attacks against Palin showed Republicans what can be done. The constant organized attacks against George Bush by Moveon.org, Michael Moore, and every liberal group in existence taught the Republicans a lesson about organizing their supporters at the grass roots level. From tea parties to town hall meetings, the Dems are having to take a bit of their own medicine.

Now the Dems can't handle the heat that THEY created.

Elliot

Actually, whether liberal or conservative, as long as the citizens are particpating and voicing their concerns and opinions, I think all this is a good idea.

It would be more concerning if we acted like sheep going to the slaughter as one extreme leads us.

G&P

Ex, if you believe we needed an insurance company to tell us how bad Obamacare is then I've got a bridge to sell you, too.

Quote:

Originally Posted by excon

Hello again, Steve:

I don't like to have ANYONE tell me how to live my life.... But, you seem to think that only government can do that.... But, government must be doing something good for the insurance companies. Otherwise, the health insurance industry wouldn't need to spend so much money courting government favor...

And, I submit that the favors they're doing for the health insurance industry run directly opposite of YOUR needs as a citizen and a family man.

So, as much as I am opposed to the government telling me what to do, I am MORE opposed to corporate America telling me what to do. I know you don't see it in that light. For you righty's, business is good, even if it isn't...

I've said before, and I'm saying again, when corporate profits begin to erode the quality of life for the average American, instead of boosting it, as it's supposed to do, then those profits become OBSCENE, and must be stopped.

To see if I can elevate the conversation to another level, the health insurance industry is the SAME as the oil industry. We, as a nation, will not allow that industry to bankrupt us, as surly as they're going to do if they're NOT nationalized. We WILL do that... You're certainly not for them selling the last of our oil, are you??? We're gonna need some for our tanks.

If the health insurance industry hadn't abused us, the price of health care would be hunky dory and we wouldn't even be addressing it now.... But, they did, and we are.

excon

https://www.askmehelpdesk.com/curren...ml#post1905056

There are healthcare companies out their existing because they perform a service that consumers need and or think is a good value. Yes there is money to be made, but there is in every sector of the economy.

If you feel the healthcare insurance companies are abusing you, don't sign up, don't pay the premiums, no one is forcing you are they? Pay everything out of pocket and you yourself determine your healthcare destiny. If enough people felt that way there would be fewer or no health insurance companies, right?

If you don't like the oil companies, don't buy gas or anything derived from petroleum products. Drill for your own oil or walk. Simple as that. Change the channel if you don't like the show. Is that not the ultimate in libertarianism?

Now when it comes to the government, YOU DON'T HAVE THAT CHOICE, if you are some teenager or twenty something working at McDonalds for $8 and hour they still take 7.5 % [ or something close to that ] of your pay and 7.5% from the employer, to pay into the government ponzi scheme called medicare and social security. Is that not against your libertarian leanings?

G&P

Another gem on the hypocrisy of The One's Whiners, from the Community-Organizer-In-Chief himself on the campaign trail last year...

Quote:

"I need you to go out and talk to your friends and talk to your neighbors. I want you to talk to them whether they are independent or whether they are Republican. I want you to argue with them and get in their face," he said.

And with timing that's so delicious, the Community-Organizer-In-Chief himself issued a new call today to rally the astroturf to participate in "thousands of events this month," organized by Obama and his allies of course.

So go ahead, keep on whiffing at today's talking point. Let him organize all he wants, just stop the whining about the rest of us exercising our right to participate in the debate.

When you start going to the Michelle Malkin site for your info you're a small step away from being a Glen Beck believer.

Quote:

Originally Posted by NeedKarma

When you start going to the Michelle Malkin site for your info you're a small step away from being a Glen Beck believer.

The info you refer to is a verbatim email from Barack Obama. It doesn't matter if the scoop was from Michelle or Needkarma. Surely you're smart enough to figure that out. But then again, maybe I give you too much credit...

Nah I'm one of the stupid ones you think you're going to convince in your daily threads. Keep it coming maybe I'll get it.

Quote:

Originally Posted by NeedKarma

Nah I'm one of the stupid ones you think you're going to convince in your daily threads. Keep it coming maybe I'll get it.

You noticed? :D

THIS is what officially organized dissent looks like:

Organizing for America | OFA Blog: Message from the President: "This is the moment our movement was built for."

Quote:

This is the moment our movement was built for.

For one month, the fight for health insurance reform leaves the backrooms of Washington, D.C. and returns to communities across America. Throughout August, members of Congress are back home, where the hands they shake and the voices they hear will not belong to lobbyists, but to people like you.

Home is where we're strongest. We didn't win last year's election together at a committee hearing in D.C. We won it on the doorsteps and the phone lines, at the softball games and the town meetings, and in every part of this great country where people gather to talk about what matters most. And if you're willing to step up once again, that's exactly where we're going to win this historic campaign for the guaranteed, affordable health insurance that every American deserves.

There are those who profit from the status quo, or see this debate as a political game, and they will stop at nothing to block reform. They are filling the airwaves and the internet with outrageous falsehoods to scare people into opposing change. And some people, not surprisingly, are getting pretty nervous. So we've got to get out there, fight lies with truth, and set the record straight.

That's why Organizing for America is putting together thousands of events this month where you can reach out to neighbors, show your support, and make certain your members of Congress know that you're counting on them to act.

But these canvasses, town halls, and gatherings only make a difference if you turn up to knock on doors, share your views, and show your support. So here's what I need from you:

Can you commit to join at least one event in your community this month?

In politics, there's a rule that says when you ask people to get involved, always tell them it'll be easy. Well, let's be honest here: Passing comprehensive health insurance reform will not be easy. Every President since Harry Truman has talked about it, and the most powerful and experienced lobbyists in Washington stand in the way.

But every day we don't act, Americans watch their premiums rise three times faster than wages, small businesses and families are pushed towards bankruptcy, and 14,000 people lose their coverage entirely. The cost of inaction is simply too much for the people of this nation to bear.

So yes, fixing this crisis will not be easy. Our opponents will attack us every day for daring to try. It will require time, and hard work, and there will be days when we don't know if we have anything more to give. But there comes a moment when we all have to choose between doing what's easy, and doing what's right.

This is one of those times. And moments like this are what this movement was built for. So, are you ready?

Please commit now to taking at least one action in your community this month to build support for health insurance reform:

http://my.barackobama.com/CommitAugust

Let's seize this moment and win this historic victory for our economy, our health and our families.

Thank you,

President Barack Obama

There's grass roots organizing, and there's calls by the President to take action, backed by his political action group, Organizing For America. The two are NOT the same. One is the power of the people. The other is the power of the political machine.

So drop the hipocracy.

Elliot

One is asking people to support something, the other is aksing people to disrupt something. Seems different to me but Speech says I'm kind of stupid so y'know...

Quote:

Originally Posted by NeedKarma

One is asking people to support something, the other is aksing people to disrupt something. Seems different to me but Speech says I'm kinda stupid so y'know....

Actually, you're the one that said you're stupid... "Nah I'm one of the stupid ones." I was commenting that you noticed my signature, which has appropriately been changed.

I have the display of signatures turned off. I don't see any of them ever.