 |
I think all drugs should be legal. Here are a three reasons:
1.) gang violence or cartel violence (what ever affects you) would be gone in a short amount of time.
2.) It would make it much harder for kids to get their hands on. I know when I was in high school you could get any drug you wanted just walking the halls. The only thing you could get was alcohol.
3.) TAX THE HELL OUT OF IT!! People are going to do drugs regardless if they are legal or not so why not tax it.
Spit
1. as I mentioned already ;legalizing alcohol and state gambling did not get rid of the mafia.
2. Not sure about that kids have no trouble obtaining tobacco . And as I recall I never had too much trouble getting alcohol .
3. Taxing the hell out of tobacco has resulted in black market and smuggling gangland operations . The jihadists are being funded with the European smuggling operations.
It has not resulted in the reduction in tobacco usage .
Nor has government gambling made it safer for the addict . In fact the legalizing of gambling has made it easier for the gambler to indulge . The net effect is that there is government profiting with a heavy moral hazard overlooked .
Ex not sure of the latest data but in the past domestically grown marijuana was about 12% of total consumption with the rest of it smuggled into the country.A recent foreign policy magazine article says the cartels make 60% of their profits from marijuana .
Now part of the cost to the consumer is that it is illegal and restricted . Lets assume that we make it legal and a domestic cash crop. The cost of consuming it would go down ;not up ,despite efforts to tax it to death . And what would happen if the tax made it more expensive to the consumer ? Well then that black market illegal smuggling racket comes back into play. You now have a drug that is readily available to consumers ,where usage would most likely increase as sales ads and marketing now encourage it... and you still have not eliminated the criminal aspects of the drug. You would still have cartels fighting to distribute the unregulated untaxed product into the market.
Hello again, tom:Quote:
Originally Posted by tomder55
You should believe me - not them. Nobody smokes that schwag any more.
excon
Back in the 20s, when they legalized alcohol, it didn't stop gang violence. The Mafia and other gangsters continued to operate and commit acts of violence. Whether its numbers, or protection rackets, or anything else they can do to make money, they will enforce their money-making activities with violent acts. Legalizing drugs won't change that. Gangs are gangs and they don't become less violent when you legalize stuff, just as terrorists don't become less violent if you try to appease them.Quote:
Originally Posted by spitvenom
I assume you mean that the only thing you couldn't get your hands on was alcohol. And I hate to break it to you, but there's nothing stopping kids from drinking today. In fact, the government has been so ineffective at regulating alcohol, grass-roots groups have been founded to do the job for them: groups like MADD, SADD and any other anti-drunk-driving group out there. The very existence of these groups is a testament to how poorly the "authorities" are doing in regulating the dangerous items they have made legal.Quote:
2.) It would make it much harder for kids to get their hands on. I know when I was in high school you could get any drug you wanted just walking the halls. The only thing you could get was alcohol.
THAT is a sensible argument. I have no problem with that.Quote:
3.) TAX THE HELL OUT OF IT!! People are going to do drugs regardless if they are legal or not so why not tax it.
Elliot
Hello again, El:Quote:
Originally Posted by ETWolverine
No, it didn't stop the mafia from OTHER gang stuff. It DID stop the violence in the alcohol trade... You aren't saying, are you, that alcohol causes violence and therefore drugs cause violence??
Alcohol does NOT cause violence. PROHIBITION causes violence. If you don't believe me, take 10 minutes out of your day and stand in the alcohol aisle in your grocery store.
To answer your anticipated question, ending the drug war won't end crime in America.
excon
Well California is trying to legalize it so they can tax it. Maybe that will solve California's state deficit. Only one problem I see with that is most of California is unemployed and homeless or almost homeless so who is going to buy the government taxed pot? The tourists? Or is California going to take all that pot tax money and pay for more illegal aliens health care and welfare payments? Gee, it going to be a tough choice for Arnold if he gets this bill passed. California does grow some good product though so it should not be too hard to get farmers to switch to a cash crop (if they haven't already that is). Maybe Iceberg lettuce will be replaced some day by California grown pot in the grocery store's produce section in say Iowa or New Jersey.
What's your thoughts on this Excon? Do you think California can solve their insolvency with a tax on pot sales? Do you think it will do any good?
Hello twinkie:Quote:
Originally Posted by twinkiedooter
By itself, no. As part of an overall plan, including letting all the non violent drug offenders out of jail, sure
excon
Elliot see my comments about spit's point # 3
Cigarette taxes (the most relevant comparison ) disproportionately hurt lower income groups and they never raise the expected revenues.They increase black market sales of cigarettes. They promote the very gangland activity they are designed to eliminate .
Then don't make the argument that it will end gang violence. Or rather Skell shouldn't make that argument. All it will do is move the violence from one sector to another. That's not a solution.Quote:
Originally Posted by excon
With the number of Californians who must be high on something, chances are they'll make up their deficits in the first year with a pot consumption tax.Quote:
Originally Posted by twinkiedooter
Elliot
I hear the argument. I am still undecided on this specific point.Quote:
Originally Posted by tomder55
Hello again, El:Quote:
Originally Posted by ETWolverine
Dude! It's NOT a solution to say that you can't end the drug war because those people will find some OTHER law to break. It did give me a laugh, however.
You're reaching for straws... I guess that's all you got left.
excon
Kind of like wage controls and raising taxes on the rich leads to "creative" ways to make more and pay less in taxes?Quote:
Originally Posted by tomder55
Not really.Quote:
Originally Posted by excon
Drugs kill. Heroin is dangerous stuff. Cocain is dangerous stuff. Their PRODUCTION is a dangerous process. They are highly addictive, and the addiction itself makes violence in order to obtain the drugs almost impossible to avoid. Trying some of them once can result in immediate addiction, thus creating the violent tendencies that come with addiction. Hard drugs should remain illegal.
The question is "what about soft drugs"? And I am of the opinion that marijuana should be legalized. Not because of some stupid argument that it is somehow going to end crime and is a miracle drug that will cure cancer and AIDS and bulemia. Simply because it is relatively harmless, about on par with alcohol and smoking, and should be about as regulated as alcohol and smoking.
Ending a war on MJ is very different from ending a war on all drugs. I am in favor of legalizing MJ. I am NOT in favor if legalizing heroin.
Elliot
Hello again, El:Quote:
Originally Posted by ETWolverine
You keep making my point... The violence stemming from the procurement of drugs is because the business of drugs is ILLEGAL... It's PROHIBITION that causes violence...
Please, if you don't believe me, go into your local 7/Eleven. Watch them sell cigarettes. If you spent 10 minutes there, you'd be convinced that tobacco doesn't cause violence.
But, if you made tobacco ILLEGAL, there would be PLENTY of violence in the cigarette trade. Would that cause you to change your mind about tobacco causing violence?? The same can be said for alcohol. Alcohol ITSELF doesn't cause violence...
Here's some more news. Shooting heroine doesn't make you want to steal either.
I know you get this. You just don't like it.
excon
Hate to tell you this, Excon, but tobacco DOES cause violence. There are quite a few tobacco bootleggers out there, and it is a very lucrative business. Tobacco is LEGAL, but it is taxed, and the taxation leads to criminal enterprise, which in turn leads to violence to protect that criminal enterprise. There's a reason that the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms exists. All three are run illegally, and all three result in massive gang violence.Quote:
Originally Posted by excon
True to a point. Shooting heroine doesn't cause violence or make you want to steal. But shooting heroine until you are hooked and then being unable to afford more heroine because you blew it all on heroine leads to the addictive behaviors that include theft, violence and any other means necessary to getting enough money to get a fix.Quote:
Here's some more news. Shooting heroine doesn't make you want to steal either.
I know you get this. You've been inside and seen what addicts do when they get desperate enough.
You just don't like the idea that you aren't free to do anything you want. You are only free to do what you want that doesn't break the law or hurt anyone else. Hard drugs don't qualify.
Elliot
Excon has helped to convince me that there are people that can use MJ and still be productive members of society. I think the criminalization of the drug causes more problems than it cures. However, as long as it is illegal I can't approve of anyone using it.
I watched both my sisters suffer with having a pothead as a husband. Having to scrape by because the rent money is going up in smoke is no way to live. One co-worker spent 2 years in Club Fed in WV and her kid bounced from foster home to foster home because of her dealing. Another co-worker's son stole his grandmother's terminal cancer pain pills to trade for his dealer.
The folks I know that are users are either miserable or making other people that way. These examples are why I just can't see this drug as harmless.
That being said, I don't care if you use it as long as I don't have to support you via the justice system, welfare, food stamps or subsidized housing. If you can support yourself and have enough left over to light up, knock yourself out.
Quote:
Originally Posted by excon
Log In Problems
Quote:
The Occurrence of Partner Physical Aggression on Days of Alcohol Consumption: A Longitudinal Diary Study
Fals-Stewart W
J Consult Clin Psychol. 2003 ;71:41-52
The likelihood of partner physical aggression on days of male partners' alcohol consumption, during a 5-month period, was examined for men entering a domestic violence treatment program (n = 137) and domestically violent men entering an alcoholism treatment program (n = 135). For men entering the domestic violence treatment program (alcoholism treatment program odds in parentheses), the odds of any male-to-female physical aggression were more than 8 times (11 times) higher on days when men drank than on days of no alcohol consumption. The odds of severe male-to-female physical aggression were more than 11 times (11 times) higher on days of men's drinking than on days of no drinking. These findings support the proximal effect model of alcohol use and partner violence.
While not proving causality, alcohol does play a major role in domestic violence, dui, suicides, liver disease among other things.
Ever wonder why fights break out at bars and not at the library?
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I do agree that marijuana should be made legal, regulated , taxed.
Criminal activity, such as dui, related to marijuana use should be prosecuted.
Medically speaking, alcohol, tobacco, valium and its derivatives, opiates and its derivatives, are more dangerous than marijuana. Heck guns are more dangerous and that is a 2nd amendment right.
Illegal marijuana on the street maybe laced or mixed with other illegal addictive substances, like cocaine. I would like to think that store bought marijuana is the pure stuff :)
It would be good for local economy as a cash crop, and the national economy as an export.
I don't think it would help the Mexican border problems because of other drugs, like crystal meth, and because the Mexican economy is bad.
Right now marijuana is illegal and a completely free market / capitalistic enterprise.
If you have the money and know the right people, aanyone can get marijuana.
I think if the government got involved in marijuana production, and sales, just like anything else the governemnt does, it would make marijuana harder to get . :);)
I can imagine getting government marijuana would be as enjoyable as the post office or the DMV, or going to the PVA office. ;)
Maybe instead of waterboarding, we just give them joints and chips :)
G&P
I have to disagree with you IN about if the Gov stepped in about it being harder to get. I base this off San Fran. I have a friend who lives out there. The MJ is easy to get with a card. It is the BEST quality and it is cheap I mean dirt cheap. And it is 100% Organic.
Hello again:
You drug warriors don't have to worry. You have a friend in the White House.
Yesterday, Obama was asked whether marijuana should be legalized to help the economy.
He snickered. His audience snickered, and he flippantly said NO.
Impeach Obama!
excon
| All times are GMT -7. The time now is 01:08 PM. |