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Originally Posted by excon

Hello again, andrew:


But, of course, the rich got UN SOAKED during the last 30 or so years, and they got wayyyyy richer... Then the dufus in chief gave them even more... It's instructive to remember who HE said was HIS constituency: "the haves... and the have mores".

The middle class, on the other hand, got wayyyyy poorer over the same amount of years.

All Obama is going to do, is put things back to where they were when things were working pretty good for America.

excon

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PLease actually post facts and not what the libs want you to believe

2007 and 2008 tax brackets -- MSN Money

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For married couples filing jointly*



If taxable income is at least.. .
But not more than.. .
Your tax is:

$0
$16,050
10% of the amount over $0

$16,051
$65,100
$1,605 plus 15% of the amount over $16,050

$65,101
$131,450
$8,962.50 plus 25% of the amount over $65,100

$131,451
$200,300
$25,550 plus 28% of the amount over $131,450

$200,301
$357,700
$44,828 plus 33% of the amount over $200,300

$357,701
No limit
$96,770 plus 35% of the amount over $357,700

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The math:

agi $40,000
tax = $5197. 5 effectively 13%

agi $120,000
tax = $22,686.75 effectively 19 %



Contrary to the kooolaid the libs have you drinking the rich DO PAY more in absolute dollars as well as percentage of income.















G&P

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TAXES do spread the wealth around. TAXES have ALWAYS spread the wealth around. That's exactly WHY we tax, and WHY we always will. TAXES are socialism

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To take from one, because it is thought his own industry and that of his fathers has acquired too much, in order to spare others, who, or whose fathers, have not exercised equal industry and skill, is to violate arbitrarily the first principle of association, the guarantee of everyone the free exercise of his industry and the fruits acquired by it."
-Thomas Jefferson, letter to Joseph Milligan, April 6, 1816.

"...a national revenue must be obtained; but the system must be
such a one, that, while it secures the object of revenue it shall not be
oppressive to our constituents."

James Madison said the above while debating the 1st tax ever approved by the new nation... signed into law by Washington on the 4th of July 1789 .

It was not an imposition or a confiscation of an individual's wealth .It was an eqaully applied tax on "goods, wares, and merchandise".

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Originally Posted by tomder55

To take from one, because it is thought his own industry and that of his fathers has acquired too much, in order to spare others, who, or whose fathers, have not exercised equal industry and skill, is to violate arbitrarily the first principle of association, the guarantee of everyone the free exercise of his industry and the fruits acquired by it." -Thomas Jefferson, letter to Joseph Milligan, April 6, 1816.

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Hello tom:

Tis true...

But then we wouldn't have library's, fire departments, free education, mail, highways, trash collection, the army, police departments, clean water, and so on, etc.

I think we need those things and, I think we need to pay for them. Don't you?

excon

Besides the Army and the construction of roads to benefit interstate commerce I don't see anything on the list that is a federal responsibility .

You group all of these as socialism ? But socialism is government ownership or controlling the means of production and distribution of goods.The services of the state you mention are not government control of the economy . They are instead services that we may or may not agree are the role of our government .

"One of the methods used by statists to destroy capitalism consists in establishing controls that tie a given industry hand and foot, making it unable to solve its problems, then declaring that freedom has failed and stronger controls are necessary." --Ayn Rand

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Originally Posted by tomder55

You group all of these as socialism ? But socialism is government ownership or controlling the means of production and distribution of goods.

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Hello again, tom:

Cool. Then we don't have any thing to worry about. A bailout is not ownership. So, all the right wing noise is nothing more than obstructionism.

excon

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Originally Posted by excon

... A bailout is not ownership. So, all the right wing noise is nothing more than obstructionism.

excon

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"...(t)he Treasury increased its ownership in Citigroup to 36 percent." U.S. Government Gives Another $30 Billion to AIG

"... $85 billion bailout that would give the U.S. government an ownership stake in the troubled insurance giant American International Group." And, $30 billion more today? http://www.iht.com/articles/2008/09/...s/17insure.php

You are either mistaken, not informed, a cherry-picker, or what?

The gvt just took over 36% of Citi and it's not ownership ? Please show me where they plan on divesting of it's ownership in the future ?

That is not the only case. There is talk of gvt representatives sitting in the board of the auto makers .

His universal plans for health care being secretly negotiated in the office of Teddy Kennedy as we speak would seize an industry representing 1/3 of the GDP . That is socialism on a fast track

Tomder - it's not a state tax but a federal tax on the tobacco products.

Why was this not announced in the media that this has been passed? I only knew because the tobacco shop I frequent keeps its customers informed of any tax hikes.

I quite agree with the cigarette smuggling from one state to another. It has progressed to a big time money maker for the criminals.

Excon - no dear, I didn't vote for Dufus either time. He's dumber than a rock (sorry for the slur on rocks) and was just a puppet.

I hope America does not mandate that a tobacco user needs to get a prescription to smoke or use tobacco products when the Nationalized Health Care is mandated on us.

Citi's one stockholder is none other than Prince Charlie. Peculiar.

I quite agree about legalizing pot and taxing it like tobacco products. But then that would make way way too much sense and put a lot of cops and jails on the hurt.

It would definitely put a real meaningful dent in the Mexican drug wars currently going on now on the border and in Mexico.

George - I like this one also...

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Originally Posted by excon

Hello again, tom:

Cool. Then we don't have any thing to worry about. A bailout is not ownership. So, all the right wing noise is nothing more than obstructionism.

Excon

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Steven Rattner: Not The Car Czar, But A Lead Advisor - Behind the Wheel - Phil Lebeau - CNBC.com

While most of the members on this task force are political staffers, Rattner and Ron Bloom, also named as one of the advisers to the Obama administration's auto team, are two with private sector experience. The hope here, and across the country, is their view from the "business world" will help this task force approach the struggling auto companies as a business problem, not a political problem.

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Government not trying to control means and production?

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Obama drops plan for 'car czar' - U.S. Politics & Elections - Politico.com - MLive.com

—The administration is establishing a Presidential Task Force on Autos to oversee the restructuring of the auto industry. Members of the task force will be drawn from relevant cabinet agencies and offices, including the Departments of Treasury, Labor, Transportation, Commerce, and Energy, the National Economic Council, the White House Office of Energy and Environment, the Council of Economic Advisers and the EPA

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Can you imagine in the days of Washington and Jefferson a "Presidential Task Force on Ship Building?"

A bunch of bureacrats telling the ship builders what type and how much wood to use or how big their sails could be?


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Sorry this is beyond the OP

But if they can tax tobacco products how about this:


Federal Commission Endorses Higher Gas Tax And Miles-Driven Tax: Consumer Reports Money & Shopping Blog



EX:

If all some politicians due is OBSTRUCT TAXES and GOVERNMENT CONTROL OF OUR LIVES - then that is not a bad thing for this administration.














G&P




















G&P

Here is another TAX - for all those that believe it is okay just to tax the smokers.

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Cap and Trade: Will it happen and what does it mean for the economy?


"Cap and Trade" legislation. For those of you who aren't familiar with the term, it essentially means that the government will levy a tax on companies whose operations produce carbon emissions and provide credits to "green" companies. These environmentally friendly companies can then turn around and sell the credits that they have earned to "dirty" companies.

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Where are all the supposed libertarians on all these new proposed taxes?





I know the Obot's are so enthralled with their messiah's speeches they can't read the news and understand the implications of what Obama and company are wanting to do to it's citizens.






















G&P

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Originally Posted by inthebox

"Cap and Trade" legislation. For those of you who aren't familiar with the term, it essentially means that the government will levy a tax on companies whose operations produce carbon emissions and provide credits to "green" companies. These environmentally friendly companies can then turn around and sell the credits that they have earned to "dirty" companies.

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Hello again, in:

This is bad, how?

excon

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Obama's recently released budget assumes that the government will rake in $79 billion in revenue from an escalating cap and trade tax in 2012, $237 billion in 2014, and in $646 billion by 2019. A huge chunk of this money will come from power companies that use coal to produce electricity. $600 billion dollars is a lot of dough. That's $600 billion in additional taxes that won't get spent by consumers, unless Uncle Sam takes it upon himself to redistribute all of the money from this tax so that it theoretically finds its way back into the economy. Furthermore, cap and trade has the potential to drive what little manufacturing actually still happens here in the U.S. to other countries with more business-friendly emissions standards. Forcing manufacturing abroad would steal much needed jobs from the U.S. economy and actually limit the effectiveness of this legislation from an environmental perspective.

As one person was quoted in the Barron's article, "Substituting more expensive energy for cheaper energy doesn't make sense." To that, I would add, at least not right now when we can least afford to do so.

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What do you think will happen to your electric bill when the coal companies are taxed higher?



Again - the government, the politicians are NOT the workers that produced energy or distribute it - THEY WANT TO TAX IT.





G&P

this is bad how ?

higher costs of energy consumption will burden the consumers (that middle class and poor that Obama champions so much)

it is an unnecessary tax that assumes carbon dioxide a pollutant and does not address legitimate emission problems .Yes I know the boneheads in SCOTUS ruled CO2 a pollutant ,but it is absurd and not based on science. CO2 is essential for life on the planet . Nurseries will pump levels 3x atmospheric levels into their green houses to make their plants lush . According to the US Dept of Agriculture ;With a C02 increase of 300 ppm, plant growth increased 31% under optimal water conditions and 63% when water was less plentiful.
With a 600 ppm C02 increase, plant growth increased 51% under optimal water conditions and an astonishing 219% under conditions of water shortage. So how can the minuscule amts that are emitted by human activity possibly be harmful to the planet ?

Hello again:

I'm sure the flat earthers had good reliable scientific data on their side too...

No, I'm not going to argue whether CO2 in our atmosphere is bad.

excon

Flat earthers ? I'd say the science behind the Goracle's theory more resembles astrology... a comparison most recently made by the Japan Society of Energy and Resources (JSER).

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Originally Posted by tomder55

higher costs of energy consumption will burden the consumers (that middle class and poor that Obama champions so much)

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Of course, Obama and his kind are liars and care not for the middle class and poor; if they did, they would not be rushing willy nilly to destroy them. What about JOBS? Are we enhancing our competitive advantage by raising the price of goods and services to pay a tax, in the name of fake science?

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Originally Posted by galveston

Let's review this in 12 months and see if things are working good by that time.

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How about 2-4 years at least? I voted for dubya twice (damn near threw up the second time when I left the booth) and Da Big B.O. gets a little more wiggle room than a doz. Months.

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Originally Posted by kp2171

how about 2-4 years at least? i voted for dubya twice (damn near threw up the second time when i left the booth) and Da Big B.O. gets a little more wiggle room than a doz. months.

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I feels yo pain, kp; but when the ship is taking on water, you need to know where the life boat's at, especially when the cap'n is opening the hatches.

Tax on miles driven... Gheeze, I hope there is a heaven, because if this is all life is about, it sure as hell is depressing.

Get ready, next thing you know they will be fitting little meters to our heads to tax us on the air we inhale. Followed by a tax on the air we exhale.

Then they will put counters on our legs to tax the steps we take.

I once said that I hope I live to be an old man, I've changed my mind, I want to die young now. America is the greatest country in the world, that in itself is very depressing... that means it don't get no better than this.

I think I'll just go down to Rick Bouchers office tomorrow and just throw my whole ____ing paycheck at him...

Because you know, that's what this is coming to, like those churches where the members turn their paychecks over to the church, and the church decides what you can and can't have, what you want, yada yada. It won't be long now, maybe 20 years, we won't work for money anymore, we'll just work for priviliages, when it gets to the point where every dime we make goes to taxes, then we have nothing left to pay rent with, or buy food, then we apply to the government for assistance. Then they tell us how much food we are qualified to eat, and what kind of house we qualify to live in...

But "at least I know I'm free!"... phssht!! Hahahahaha! You're kidding right?