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Andrew you isn't seen nothing yet. First draft of the budget President Obama is going to submit will be available Thursday. All indications are that the bucket list economic recovery bill was a tack hammer compared to the sledge hammer that is going the be proposed.
That's scary,
I had an idea this morning, granted, I'm just an ordianry working man, but maybe the feds should just tax the hell out of imports, so that domestic products can compete.
It seemed like a win win to me, because we just can't dust off those 50 year old factories and put them back to work overnight, no, we'd still have to import most of everything while we retrain our workforce to build things again. But all the while, we are taxing those imports.
It's a "stimulous plan" that makes money, rather than uses it. I'd bet with all the crap with import from china, the tax levied off it could elliminate the debt!
But then I got to thinking as to why we won't do that, and the only conclusion I can reach is that Washington is scared of China. And rightfully so, they are a nuclear nation, they are rich, we are poor, the outnumber us greatly, they produce 99% of what the world uses. They can build their own bombs, we can assemble ours, but only with components made in... you guessed it, CHINA. They kind of have us by the balls if you ask me...
And the reason why I brought this up is because the REASON behind all this stimulous and additional debt is because of the economy. And the economy is failing because nobody has any jobs anymore, and nobody as any jobs because they all went to China, so thinking in reverse, if you tackle the problems I just listed in that order, starting with bringing the jobs back home, the rest of the issues should resolve theirself.
Right down to the debt. More people working means more people paying sales tax, income tax, property tax, more can afford a home, the debt goes down. That is of course if the government actually uses it to pay it down and doesn't spoil us with programs we don't really need.
Protectionism doesn't work ,and in fact would hurt the American markets more .True we are the largest importers in the world,but also ,our exports are among the largest in the world.
History tells us that trade protection measures hurt not only other countries, but eventually the country that erected them in the first place. The U.S. adopted the Smoot-Hawley Act in 1930, which raised import duties of over 20,000 foreign products significantly and provoked protectionist retaliation from other countries. Faced with that crisis, other countries retaliated and that slashed global trade volume from $36 billion in 1929 to $12 billion in 1932. U.S. exports shrank from $5.2 billion in 1929 to $1.2 billion in 1932. The Smoot-Hawley Act was the catalyst that aggravated the effects of the Great Depression and I would argue actually caused the 1929 market crash.Smoot-Hawley was signed into law in June, 1930, but the Senate voted approval October, 1929 .Stock prices crashed in response to the protectionist votes of senators.
Roosevelt campaigned in 1932 to roll-back Smoot-Hawley .But once in office he torpedoed efforts at the London Economic Conference to stabilize currencies and roll back tariffs July, 1933. Tariff rates were raised, not lowered, and excise taxes on imports were added. This prolonged the Great Depression and did nothing to help the American worker or businesses.
For a practical example see my posting here :
https://www.askmehelpdesk.com/curren...ed-319354.html
Canada is one of our largest trading partners . We import oil from them ;a reliable source of energy from a friendly neighbor. Yet ,provisions of the so called Stimulus bill threaten that relationship.
Very good points and a corollary is that we don't go to war with our friends, our trading partners. It's like the "Golden Rule" of good international relations. And one might say that the Stimulus Porkage is just the 'opening salvo' of a new wave of economic protectionism. The U.S. needs to unleash our existing industry from excessive labor rules, environmentalism, and taxes; and encourage new industry by not taxing its proponents out of economic existence.Quote:
Originally Posted by tomder55
Tomder,
That was an excellent response to my statement, and I understand completley. It still would be nice if we could import a little less from China. My hometown of Pulaski VA died on accont of China, and I've seen the trickle down effects to other local businesses, such as restaruants, department stores etc. China and Mexico killed this town. Now there is nothing left but welfare and unemployment.
In a town of almost 10,000 people, our largest employer employs 300 at the most. The remainder draw off the state. And it seems to me that is the reason why the debt is so high. To many people taking from the system, and not enough paying in.
I couldn't work in this town, my employer is 50 miles away, and if I lost that job, I'd just have to move to another area or something.
So what would you say the solution would be to bring jobs back without unbalancing the global market? Because I do think that it's going to boil down to jobs. People who have jobs spend money, that stokes the economy, more taxes paid, the debt goes down.
The U.S. debt is very scary. Entitlements such as medicare, medicaid, pensions and Bush's prescription drug benefits are part of the problem. This may be unpopular, but a national sales tax would be a big help. Canada had a major debt until the 1990s when the goods and services tax was introduced. It was extremely unpopular at the time and caused the Conservatives to be reduced to two seats in the next election, but Canada became one of the few countries in the world to have balanced budgets until the financial crisis began.
The population bar isn't even a bar, it's a flat spot at the bottom of the chart, if not for this being a "3d" chart, it would be invisible! :D
Andrew I have not forgotten your question about bringing the jobs back . The truth is that jobs lost do not come back because of the evolution of manufacturing .
Since Henry Ford invented the assembly line there has been a constant non-stop pursuit of efficiency . That means inevidibly that products can be made better with LESS labor.
Manufacturing still goes on in the country .But it is higher tech ;and I think the answer to your question is that your region needs to create an environment that attracts the higher tech companies. Reality bites ;but low tech manufacturing to be competitive needs to go to places where labor is cheaper . Consumers will just not pay for products where the prices are jacked up due to labor costs.
To attract the business your State needs to get more involved with incentives . These usually come in the forms of tax breaks,abatements ,rezoning , infrastructure improvements ,quality of life promotion, worker retraining programs ,and grants... often times R&D grants.
You are in Va. I bet the state has done something similar in the DC area but often as in NY state ,the less urban areas tend to get neglected until election time .Only then do politicians
Pay lip service to rural development .
You mention China. China has seen the economy slip also . In Nov. they passed a "stimulus" plan that was heavy on infrastructure and getting labor doing those what we call "shovel ready projects" . Many of them were targeted to rural development.
But now that the immediate crisis has passed there is a fierce debate going on in China if projects to the poor rural areas should be advanced over projects to help the more populus and affluent coastal areas. There are many there that argue that pumping money into these under-developed areas would be a drain and the gvt should help the urban middle class get back on their feet . The counter argument is the one that says giving to the poor would have an immediate impact on the GDP because they are more likely to return money spent into the economy.
Since the Communist Party makes all decisions there ,it can be assumed that there is an internal debate in the party itself over the best course of action.
Meanwhile Sec State Evita Clintoon went to China ,hat in hand ,demanding they continue to finance our debt . At the same time the Democrat bucket list has provisions that mandate the purchase of American made goods over imports . This specifically punishes China at the same time we come a begging .
Well, China has made a fair deal of money off us. We'll be paying off that country forever.
I don't mind some china imports, but the China thing is getting a little out of control. It's getting to be like finding something made in USA or not made in China is like trying to locate a 4 leaf clover.
I personally think it's a matter of national security. If China ever pulls the rug out from under us, who's going to manufacture our cell phones, TV's, radio's, light bulbs, washing machines, and the list of billions of other things that have never been manufactured in America?
And the results of this are clear. Our jobs status says it all. Many people dismiss this as low wage jobs that the nation could afford to loose. True, Pulaski Furniture was never a high paying establishment, but it was jobs. It was income taxes paid, it was local businesses staying open late on paydays.
Now it's a brown field, and most people have left, those few who remain are just living off the system. In my opinion, a low paying job is better than no job at all.
BTW: For anyone here thinking of buying a piece of furniture with the "Pulaski Furniture" brand, don't think you are supporting American jobs. Pulaski Furniture shut down ALL operations here a few years ago, ever single thing the produce comes from China now. If you don't believe me, feel free to peel off exit 94 of I81 and see for yourself. Just look for the big blue building that has been gutted of all it's scrap metal.
Oh dear . This made in Americamade vs overseas thing is just so deceptive .
A perfect example is the auto industry that is costing us a fortune to save American jobs. check out these made in America (all UAW ) cars and trucks
Mazda 6
Mitsubishi Eclipse
Mitsubishi Galant
Toyota Corolla
Isuzu I-Series Truck
Mazda B-series Truck
Mitsubishi Raider Truck
Toyota Tacoma Truck
Here are some imports (again made by UAW workers outside the country )
Buick Lacrosse
Chevrolet Impala
Chrysler 300
Dodge Challenger
Dodge Charger
Ford Crown Victoria
Lincoln Town Car
Mercury Grand Marquis
Pontiac Grand Prix
Chevy Aveo, built by Korean automaker Daewoo for Detroit-based General Motors. Chrysler PT Cruiser, built in Mexico.Honda Pilot and Honda Civics, built in the U.S. with higher domestic content (70%) than the 2008 Dodge Ram (68%) and the Michigan-built Ford Mustang (65%).
Toyota Tundra, Toyota Sienna and Honda Odyssey rank #5, #6 and #7 for the "Top American-Made Cars" in 2008 by Cars.com.
My question is this ;if I were looking to buy "Pulaski Furniture" built in the USA ,how much more would it have cost me as a consumer of the furniture to keep the factory going ? Next question .I know for a fact that Chinese came here with their dollars and reinvested in American... not just buying the debt ;but opening up manufacturing facilities... just like the Japanese did.. creating American jobs. When you talk of them pulling out that is as big a concern as the prospect of them ending their monetary investment in the U.S. Will it be OK that those jobs get lost ?
Where will the money come from ? Maybe India,maybe we'll go back to having terrorist supporting oil Sheiks funding us... but certainly not Americans.The Americans have never been known as savers and I see no indication that Americans are willing to shrink the size of their government... a government that is hell bent to absorb all the remaining US capital that could otherwise be used to create jobs .
Pulaski Furniture is a name brand, it always has been and always will be expensive. The cost of the furniture never went down when operations moved overseas.
Quote:
Originally Posted by tomder55
Gergetown KY makes Camry's
In the news here, even Toyota is feeling the downturn.
The workers from low all the way to management took a pay cut rather than layoff anyone
Toyota cutting costs with lower pay, buyout programs, more - Latest News - Kentucky.com
G&P
Andrew ;because one industry leaves it doesn't mean that a new industry can't replace it. Here in NY we lost textiles a long time ago to the South .But new cutting edge industry replaces that. On Long Island a whole generation worked in the defense industry . Now ;although remnants of it still remains , corridors of high tech businesses provide the jobs.
Like I said, it is up to the community leadership to create an environment where other industry comes in to replace what gets lost.
In ;yes it is hard to sell cars when no one is buying them. I own a Camry because it is the most dependable car on the road. The Corolla I handed off to my daughter has 200,000 miles on it and still goes strong. Toyota may be the vicitim of it's own success . Back in the 1970s I replaced cars every 100,000 miles.
General Motors posted a $9.6 billion fourth-quarter loss and is asking for more bailout $$$... $30billion more . Chapter 11 time.
I cannot for the life of me find how much it cost to actually make one car and how much they mark them up. (from goods, labor and to transport.. etc) Why would it be so hard to just lower the price, make some money still and keep employees?
My own opinion... fixed legacy costs makes their product uncompetitve.In 2005 Chrysler’s health-care costs were about eleven hundred dollars more per vehicle than Toyota’s...GM was even worse at $1,600-per-vehicle .
Every car made has to pay for very generous (compared to the marketplace) retirement packages and it is reflected in the bottom line cost of the vehicle .
Back in the old days when they were the only game in town they could get away with that. But they are not ;their market share continues to shrink as many nations build good cars now .
Their business model was fine when they were the only game in town .But they have been slow to adjust.
Hello tom:Quote:
Originally Posted by tomder55
Bingo. That's why health care reform has to happen before or in concert with the auto industry reform.
If the country's where our car industry has to compete, PAY their workers health care and don't make the EMPLOYER do it, we're going to have to do it too. And, we are...
You say THEY'VE been slow to adjust... But, when they've burdened themselves with these legacy costs, you can't just UNBURDEN yourself. The government'll take it on.
excon
We agree on heath care reform... but probably not in the form it will take. Medicare ,medicaid ,VA are all examples of the inefficiency that we will expose the whole country to under a gvt. Run plan.
But yes, American businesses pay a hefty price for the pre-WWII model we are currently dealing with .
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