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Originally Posted by ZoeMarie

You took the words right out of my mouth. every ad I've seen on tv for McCain has just bashed Obama. Are there any where he focusses on what he wants to do or is every ad the same?

And Ashley, have you ever heard of rape? or lethal conditions that would kill the baby and/or the mother? that's the reason we need to have choices.

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Since it's been brought up, what about Obama's outright lie that McCain doesn't support equal pay for women? I checked into that and found out what the truth was.

As for the rape/lethal conditions aspect, I agree that it's a hard decision to make. However, if you legalize abortion in only rape cases, then every woman walking into a clinic is going to say she was raped just to get an abortion. The crooked doctors out there are going to say that the baby had to be terminated "for the mother's health."

Obama is going to destroy our country. It makes me sick to think that our world is going to be coming to an end here pretty soon. Obama is a freaking joke and when he does get into office you will see in two years what a mistake you made for voting for him. And the only reason why he will make it into office is because he cheated his way into office. His campaign was going and getting homeless people registered to vote. Now tell me how is there any way to know where that person resides if they are homeless. And, now two states are letting convicted felons vote. Who do you think they are going to vote for? Not the white dude of course. And this has turned into a racial campaign. Almost all of the people on welfare who don't pay taxes as it is are going to vote for him so they can continue to stay on welfare. It tears my because I am in the lower income class and I make too much money to qualify for welfare because I am working two jobs and going to school full-time to support my child. Plus, I would be voting for him, but I found out that he won't even put his hand on his heart during AMERICA'S National Anthem, now how are we going to put a "Muslim" in office as President if he won't even salute our country? That is crazy!! Plus, as soon as Obama got his campaign jet, the first thing he did was remove the American flag on the plane's tail. And McCain's wife probably hooked up with him because he is a well educated, dedicated man who is a generally good guy. Everyone who votes for Obama is going to see what he does to our country. We are going to have change, but it isn't going to be a good change, it will be devastating.

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Originally Posted by this8384

Since it's been brought up, what about Obama's outright lie that McCain doesn't support equal pay for women? I checked into that and found out what the truth was.

As for the rape/lethal conditions aspect, I agree that it's a hard decision to make. However, if you legalize abortion in only rape cases, then every woman walking into a clinic is going to say she was raped just to get an abortion. The crooked doctors out there are going to say that the baby had to be terminated "for the mother's health."

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So you're saying punish the people that are innocent because there's a couple crooks out there?

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Originally Posted by ZoeMarie

so you're saying punish the people that are innocent because there's a couple crooks out there?

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I think that it should be the woman's choice to have an abortion or not. I am not saying that I believe in them, but if you were to go to an abortion clinic one weekend and count how many women are in there. Then multiple that by 72 (for the weeks in a year) then that is how many more unwanted children there would be in our world. And what do people do when they can't afford things for their kids? They go on welfare and all of the working people get to pay for them. So, I say let the women live with their decisions for the rest of their lives. That isn't your life, so don't worry about it. That is my view. I do think that it is wrong and unjust, and it isn't an innocent child's fault and if you have sex you need to deal with the consequences, but sometimes it is not fair to bring an unwanted child into this world.

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Originally Posted by ZoeMarie

so you're saying punish the people that are innocent because there's a couple crooks out there?

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No, I'm saying that we shouldn't punish the baby. Adoption is always an option; murder should not be.

Yeah, because everyone wants to adopt a stillborn baby. I'm not trying to be rude but I know firsthand of someone that that was told by her doctor that her baby would not live, would most likely not make it 9 months in the womb and if she did she would end up being stillborn. On top of that she could have died. So if you were given a 100% chance that your baby would die and a good chance that you would die, what would you do? I don't really thing adoption is the best choice here.

I was referring to adoption in the case of rape. There are numerous stories about doctors providing wrong diagnosis to patients; mothers are pushed towards abortion because the doctor says the child is going to have Downs syndrome, only to have the child born completely healthy.

I don't like that Obama voted "no" on a bill that would make sure a doctor had to use every means possible to save a baby that was born alive as the result of a partial-birth abortion, and then tries to justify his actions by saying "[that bill] didn't contain anything concerning the health of the mother." That's a complete cop-out if I ever saw one, along with the beginning of life being "above his paygrade." If the baby is born, it's a living, breathing human being who deserves just as much protection as you or I. How can a baby, who is no longer inside of its mother, pose a threat to that same mother?

My cousin's baby had 69 chromosomes. She couldn't keep it. There was no way the baby would live. This isn't downs syndrome. This is "the baby can't survive"

It's a hard choice, I agreed with you. I don't like Obama because he dances around issues rather than give Americans a straight-forward answer. You and I can sit down and tell each other our opinion on the matter; why can't he?

Yeah I don't know. I think if he did share his views maybe it would make more sense to some people, but I found a story online about a couple that their baby had triploidy. (69 chromosomes) like what my cousin's baby had.

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Abortion aside, I don't like Obama because as I said, he doesn't answer questions. I don't like the way that everyone ignored that when his self-proclaimed mentor flew off the handle, he said, "It doesn't matter if I agree with Rev. Wright's views or not..." Uh, yeah; it kind of does!

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Originally Posted by Fr_Chuck

Elections are often bought to the highest bidder, from local sheriff races to national ones,

For example that is why excon and I can't run for office we are poor, and don't have a large funding program behind us.

excon maybe a new non profit, excons and criminals for change, but then no one would be surprised when they break the voting laws and the such I guess.

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The way I see it that is one of the major problems with the political system in your country. A major flaw among many in my opinion. Its about money money and more money. No wonder it is a greedy, wasteful society we live in. And no side is better than the other when it comes to this.

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Originally Posted by ZoeMarie

You took the words right out of my mouth. every ad I've seen on tv for McCain has just bashed Obama. Are there any where he focusses on what he wants to do or is every ad the same?

And Ashley, have you ever heard of rape? or lethal conditions that would kill the baby and/or the mother? that's the reason we need to have choices.

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Actually I have. Of course, if the mother's life were at stake, this would be a different circumstance. But irresponsible people going out and having sex and killing babies, it's sick and I don't want to think about it. But abortion itself aside, let's look at PARTIAL BIRTH abortion. Any of you ever witness one? Explain to me why ANYONE in their RIGHT mind would carry a child ALL the way up to delivery and then KILL it? It's MURDER. If you are driving drunk, and kill a pregnant mother, you get charged with TWO counts of manslaughter? Hypocrisy? Yes! We have laws designed for mothers that don't want their kids, in place to PREVENT things like abortions. Like the law that says you can drop an unwanted baby off in any ER, no questions asked. Why would anyone carry a child full term and destroy it, unless they are sick and demented. People that do this should not be granted the pleasure of parenthood and should be sterilized.

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Originally Posted by ashley0716

actually I have. Of course, if the mother's life were at stake, this would be a different circumstance.

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Ashley, the problem with the way our law is formulated is that there is no gray area for many circumstances. You either accept choice in the situation (abiding by the perimeters of the law as is) or lose abortion as a choice all together. I wish it wasn't so, but that's the way it is and why I'm pro-choice. Personally outside of rape or the mother's health being at risk, I'd like to see more adoptions although that's an open tab at the public's expence.

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Originally Posted by this8384

It's a hard choice, I agreed with you. I don't like Obama because he dances around issues rather than give Americans a straight-forward answer. You and I can sit down and tell each other our opinion on the matter; why can't he?

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When McCain was asked about his abortion stance, he said there would be special provisions made in cases of violence (rape) and some other conditions.

Obama is catering to the urban poor African-American youth who don't protect themselves and have a higher than average pregnancy rate. By saying it's all okay - they no longer have to even consider abstaining or protecting themselves from unwanted pregnancy. They don't have to consider they are actually killing a baby either.

Sometime later in their lives, it will come back to haunt them and my guess is they won't be saying thanks for the freedom to murder.

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Ashley, the problem with the way our law if formulated is that there is no gray area for many circumstances. You either accept choice in the situation (abiding by the perimeters of the law as is) or lose abortion as a choice all together.

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However ; if the courts had not intervened then it is likey by now that a political compromise would've been reached on a state by state basis. It was the ill-advised intervention by the courts that hardened opinions on the issue.

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Originally Posted by tomder55

However ; if the courts had not intervened then it is likey by now that a political compromise would've been reached on a state by state basis. It was the ill-advised intervention by the courts that hardened opinions on the issue.

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Good point! That is some of those states by now. But looking back it's a case of coulda-woulda-shoulda. Unfortunately we have to deal with it as is. That's why part of the public, like myself, have taken a pro-choice stand on the issue.