Quote:

---

Originally Posted by spitvenom

Your right ALL firefighters are not going to vote for him. So do this find One firefighter who is an Obama supporter in REAL LIFE not the internet and call them a communist to their face. But lets be real you won't cause you lose your power of being anonymous.

---

The LAST thing I want to do, is to go find ANY Obama supporter, firefighter or not.

However, should I run into a firefighter, or a UFC contender, or the Jolly Green Giant for that matter, I would have no problem in describing their beliefs as socialist or communist, if that is the kind of political system they support.

If that is the way YOU believe, why can't you just be proud to be called a socialist, or communist, or liberal?

It is not a personal attack by any means, it is more a statement of fact, based upon an individuals beliefs, so if your beliefs lean towards socialism, communism, or liberalism, STAND UP AND BE PROUD OF IT.

Fascism = National Socialism

Communism = International Socialism


there is the distinction .

Has anyone else noticed that if a Liberal gets called a Liberal, they become very defensive, and act like they have been called a "dirty" name?

On the other hand, if you call a conservative a conservative, we stand proud to be labeled as such.

I wonder how it really feels, to hold personal beliefs, that you feel you have to keep hidden, and that you can't just stand up and be proud of?

I think that would be a miserable existence, and a horrible way to have to go through life.

I would probably have a horrible attitude all the time too.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by progunr

I would probably have a horrible attitude all the time too.

---

You mean like the conservatives display here?

Hello again, Prog:

I thought you spoke English... I thought you had a memory... Guess not.

You called liberals communists. You didn't just say they were liberals... I'm a liberal, and proud to be so. But, I'm not a communist. It offends me to be called a communist. I KILLED a few Communists in Vietnam.

Maybe you righty's can't make those distinctions... I guess that's why you're on the right.

excon

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by NeedKarma

You mean like the conservatives display here?

---

As opposed to just throwing out insults?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by speechlesstx

As opposed to just throwing out insults?

---

Insults, negative campaigning, bigotted remarks, that kind of thing.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by excon

Hello Prog:

Liberalism isn't socialisim/communisim, just the same as conservatism isn't fascism/Nazism. Apply the labels correctly, and you'll get no argument from me.

I'm a libertarian, however. Libertarianism takes the best from the left and the best from the right. Some of my views are ULTRA liberal, so I'll embrace the term proudly. Some of my views are ULTRA conservative, and that's cool with me. But, I don't see them as in conflict with my ULTRA left ones. It's YOU who are conflicted.

For example, the drug war, although disguised as a conservative program is as socialistic and communistic as you get. MOST conservatives won't get that - but I'll bet YOU will.

excon

---

If there is anyone, that believes and follows EVERY policy or procedure of the political party they support, they are no more than a blood pumping robot.

Nazi's were not conservatives, I don't see the connection there?

Fascism, actually opposes conservatism, so I'm not sure about that comparison either.

Liberalism, communism, and socialism are, on the other hand, VERY closely related and there in lies the difference.

I still respect and admire your wisdom, at least you DO stand up for what you believe in.

Just like Ex said I have no problem being called a Liberal but when you start calling people a communist it's just not true. I could easily call anyone who doesn't support Obama a racist but I don't because it is not true.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by progunr

Liberalism, communism, and socialism are, on the other hand, VERY closely related and there in lies the difference.

---

You are allowed to believ what you wish to believe since this is like a religion to you. I prefer to view people as individuals, you prefer to judge people as groups.

I don't judge anyone, until they say or do something, that would give me a reason to judge them.

If someone or a group of someone's reveals liberal ideals or philosophy, then I would judge them as a liberal, as an individual or as a group.

That really is the same thing you do, isn't it?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by NeedKarma

Insults, negative campaigning, bigotted remarks, that kind of thing.

---

It's 'bigoted.' Try this one and see if you can discern my point, Pot calling the kettle black.

The original point seems to have been lost. The Commies like Obama, I don't like Commies, therefore I am HIGHLY suspicious of anyone they like. Lots of voters will feel the same way, I expect.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Galveston1

Lots of voters will feel the same way, I expect.

---

Lots of voters are more intelligent than you and do not make false syllogisms.

Poor McCain. Just another voting block for Obama to go along with his acquired Republican supporters. Anybody else that desires to keep John McSame and the Bushaholics from a third term... be my guest. :)

Considering Obama's plans and past voting record, your are ABSOLUTELY correct if you think I would vote for McCain or even Bush again, though there things I disagree with both of them on.
Don't you think it is arrogant for you to assume that because someone disagrees with you that makes them inferior to you intellectually?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Galveston1

Don't you think it is arrogant for you to assume that because someone disagrees with you that makes them inferior to you intellectually?

---

You know, Galveston, when you walk through briars that you are going to get stickers? They enjoy lecturing on this subject: "An ad hominem argument, also known as argumentum ad hominem (Latin: "argument to the man", "argument against the man") consists of replying to an argument or factual claim by attacking or appealing to a characteristic or belief of the person making the argument or claim, rather than by addressing the substance of the argument or producing evidence against the claim. The process of proving or disproving the claim is thereby subverted, and the argumentum ad hominem works to change the subject.

"It is most commonly used to refer specifically to the ad hominem as abusive, sexist, racist, or argumentum ad personam, which consists of criticizing or attacking the person who proposed the argument (personal attack) in an attempt to discredit the argument. It is also used when an opponent is unable to find fault with an argument, yet for various reasons, the opponent disagrees with it." Ad hominem - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Yes George_1950,

You nailed it!

When they can't defend the position, they attack the messenger, very common, and not just here.

Unfortunately the message that many McCain supporters resonate has been negative campaigning and proven lies that stuff the email boxes of America's gullible and ignorant. Which BTW is one of many reasons I was very apprehensive of Hillary Clinton's leadership early on.