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Originally Posted by Skell

Yet under your law these people can get a gun as easily as you can. Now why is that? Does that not seem absurd to you? It does to me.

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Please excuse me, but I am exhausted, but I will try to address your concerns one by one

The above... Most states have strict laws that we have to pass background checks. If we have committed any sort of crime, then we are not able to get a gun. Unfortunately, some fall through the cracks.

To get a gun legally you cannot have committed a crime such as domestic violence, drug charges, heck, even if you are in therapy for mental illness. Yet, most people never get caught with drugs, women/men rarely report domestic violence, hell, how many people really get help for mental illness? And I am just naming a few.

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Originally Posted by Skell

But none of you even seem to acknowledge that the system you have at present isnt working.

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I beg to differ with you here. We know that the "system" isn't working. But how do we better it? You make gun control laws tougher and it is just hurting us ordinary citizens. Doesn't do anything to the "thugs." Yet those of us who are educated are blamed. Don't say that you don't blame people like me for the problems. I have seen it time and time again in the past 4 years.

Those of you who have not been a victim of a crime of this magnitude have no idea what it is like to be on the other side of barrel. And until you have been in the same place we have you have no right to say anything otherwise.

Look, as I said in the other post, people have been killing each other for centuries, a gun just makes it easier. So, you blame the gun. I blame society. I blame people for not understanding and treating mental illness as it should be treated. Like heart disease, kidney disease. It's all an illness nonetheless.

Just because we haven't been in hostage situation or the other side of the barrel should not mean we can't comment on guns! That's ridiculous! Its like saying just because you've never played football you can't have an opinion. Sorry for your situation J_9 but it doesn't make your opinion any more valid than the next!

You are one of the very few countries in the western world who consider having tougher gun control laws will lead to more crime. You think that it will make you all susceptible to the bad guys. Ive lived in some of the most dangerous parts of Sydney, one of the most dangerous cities in the world. Ive never ever felt the need for a gun or wanted one. I kept myself safe through common sense and knowing where and when isn't a good time to be somewhere.

Citizens in most other countries in the world get by without a gun quite finely. It doesn't make the thugs more dangerous and prevalent.

So you say the system isn't working but how do you better? Change the system. Perhaps take a leaf out of some other nations and see what other options there are. Don't just sit by and watch massacre after massacre and put it down to mental illness and put no blame on the gun. That would be my solution but it will get howled down!

I'm surprised that when there are these "gun" incidents, the issue of violence, and lack of respect for life in the media is not brought up.


Its in movies, videogames, music lyrics. Weapons are used flipantly, and killing is part of the goal. Then the news media lends credence to this by 24-7 coverage of and incident and allowing the thoughts of the killers to get center stage.


Why do people question the 2nd amendment, when part of the cause lies with the media?

As to driving a car, that is a privilege not a constitutionally protected right.

The right to life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness.
You have to be able to defend the first two.




Grace and Peace

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Originally Posted by Skell

Citizens in most other countries in the world get by without a gun quite finely. It doesnt make the thugs more dangerous and prevalent.

So you say the system isnt working but how do you better? Change the system. Perhaps take a leaf out of some other nations and see what other options there are. Dont just sit by and watch massacre after massacre and put it down to mental illness and put no blame on the gun. That would be my solution but it will get howled down!

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Where I live citizens/civilians do not carry/ cannot carry firearms.
Only the police/military carry them and only when on duty.

We never used to think twice about being out and about any time of the day.
I have seen a huge change in our community though.
In the recent years there has been a surge in drug use/abuse and this has led to a lot of robberies at knife point or bag snatching incidents or even stabbing incidents among the users and/or passerby.

I would still not want the citizens to carry a gun in my community,it would scare me because of the fact that we are not as a community used to having them and also knowing many I think the respect for firearms is non-existent here.
And to boot most youngsters idolise the gun toting actor/actress depicted in the movies.

I am not sure how I would feel in the future,but at the moment I feel better knowing that my neighbour does not carry a gun and in the evnt he/she is mad at me will not confront me with it.

Update 14 year old had mental problems

Student gunman had mental problems - Crime & Punishment - MSNBC.com

SO, how did the system fail if he had a history of violents acts and mental problems.

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Originally Posted by mr.yet

Update 14 year old had mental problems

Student gunman had mental problems - Crime & Punishment - MSNBC.com

SO, how did the system fail if he had a history of violents acts and mental problems.

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Good question. It seems to be failing regularly yet according to many there is nothing wrong with the system. Go figure...

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Originally Posted by firmbeliever

Where I live citizens/civilians do not carry/ cannot carry firearms.
Only the police/military carry them and only when on duty.

We never used to think twice about being out and about any time of the day.
I have seen a huge change in our community though.
In the recent years there has been a surge in drug use/abuse and this has led to a lot of robberies at knife point or bag snatching incidents or even stabbing incidents among the users and/or passerby.

I would still not want the citizens to carry a gun in my community,it would scare me because of the fact that we are not as a community used to having them and also knowing many I think the respect for firearms is non-existent here.
And to boot most youngsters idolise the gun toting actor/actress depicted in the movies.

I am not sure how I would feel in the future,but at the moment I feel better knowing that my neighbour does not carry a gun and in the evnt he/she is mad at me will not confront me with it.

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So do I firm! :)

[QUOTE=
I am not sure how I would feel in the future,but at the moment I feel better knowing that my neighbour does not carry a gun and in the evnt he/she is mad at me will not confront me with it.[/QUOTE]

Ok... but would you be comfy knowing your neighbor carries an illegal gun? Cause a person getting one illegally, I suppose, may be more dangerous than me carrying one.

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Originally Posted by startover22

Ok...but would you be comfy knowing your neighbor carries an illegal gun? Cause a person getting one illegally, I suppose, may be more dangerous than me carrying one.

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You guys bring that argument up evry time but it just doesn't seem to happen here. People aren't killing people with illegal handguns at the rate that they are in the U.S. nowhere near that rate! Where are they buying these illegal handguns anyway? At your corner store?

No in my shed behind my house... I mean not mine... but the neighbors. I argue that I can't stop these STUPID people from buying a gun... so I will be protected from them if need be! That is so simple and just because you guys don't have the same problem as the U.S. just shows that you don't have the same concerns so your view is for yours and mine is for mine. If I lived where it was "gunless" then yes, I would steer closer to your opinion.

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Originally Posted by NeedKarma

You guys bring that argument up evry time but it just doesn't seem to happen here. People aren't killing people with illegal handguns at the rate that they are in the U.S., nowhere near that rate! Where are they buying these illegal handguns anyway? At your corner store?

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Same here. It must just be in the US because I've never seen a gun other than in policeman's holster.

I think the problem is that because the gun culture is so entrenched and embedded in peoples minds that they can't imagine a place where people don't have guns and they aren't in every second persons handbag.

Sure there are illegal guns floating around but nowhere near the rate that you seem to imagine. I would bet all the tea in china that no one in my street owns a gun. In fact I would go as far to say that of all the people I know none of them owns a gun or have ever owned a gun.

It's a fear thing it seems. You think that if you give up your gun all the bad guys are going to come out and shoot you all down. The thing is if they wanted to shoot you down they would now. You know why, because they're bad guys. They don't care if you got to gun because they got one too and they want to use it.

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Originally Posted by startover22

No in my shed behind my house....I mean not mine...but the neighbors. I argue that I can't stop these STUPID people from buying a gun...so I will be protected from them if need be! That is so simple and just because you guys don't have the same problem as the U.S. just shows that you don't have the same concerns so your view is for yours and mine is for mine. If I lived where it was "gunless" then yes, I would steer closer to your opinion.

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That's fair enough Start. And please don't take this the wrong way but I really do feel sorry for you and the citizens of the US that are that scared they feel they need a gun. I really am sorry about that. It must be horrible.

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Originally Posted by Skell

Thats fair enough Start. And please dont take this the wrong way but i really do feel sorry for you and the citizens of the US that are that scared they feel they need a gun. I really am sorry about that. It must be horrible.

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And I am jealous of your security. And I just really need to make it clear that I do not sell guns in the shed behind my house... LOL:D
EDIT... and Skell... If I walked down the road I bet you ten bucks every fifth house I go to is a gun owners house. Given the fact that we live in the country... but if I were in the city and people would actually admit they had one... I bet it would be the same! 1 in 6 maybe 7 maybe...
Everone I know... (almost) owns a gun... Wow... pretty shocking huh?

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Originally Posted by startover22

And I am jealous of your security. nd I just really need to make it clear that I do not sell guns in the shed behind my house...LOL:D
EDIT....and Skell....If i walked down the road I bet you ten bucks every fifth house i go to is a gun owners house. Given the fact that we live in the country...but if I were in the city and people would actually admit they had one....I bet it would be the same! 1 in 6 maybe 7 maybe.....
Everone I know...(almost) owns a gun...Wow...pretty shocking huh?

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Its pretty scary for someone like me looking from the outside in yeah, But that's me on the outside. I suppose for you guys its just part of life and what makes the world a different place. Its part of your culture and by the looks of it I don't imagine it will change anytime soon.

Ill no where to some next tim I'm in the US and need a gun. Starts back shed.:D

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Originally Posted by Skell

Its pretty scary for someone like me looking from the outside in yeah, But thats me on the outside. I suppose for you guys its just part of life and what makes the world a different place. Its part of your culture and by the looks of it i dont imagine it will change anytime soon.

Ill no where to some next tim im in the US and need a gun. Starts back shed.:D

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Grrr... :D

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Originally Posted by NeedKarma

You guys bring that argument up evry time but it just doesn't seem to happen here. People aren't killing people with illegal handguns at the rate that they are in the U.S., nowhere near that rate! Where are they buying these illegal handguns anyway? At your corner store?

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Apparently guns and crime are a problem in Canada:
Government of Ontario, Canada - News


Data from the FBI and the uniform crime report:
NRA-ILA :: Articles


Gun control does not necessarily prevent crimes:
England and Wales top crime league | Special reports | Guardian Unlimited
"Canada, Scotland, Denmark, Poland, Belgium, France and America are medium crime countries where between 20% and 24% are crime victims each year."

And a different point of view:
A Case for Gun Control
"Hand grip ID tagging. This is technologically probably still in the future, but it would be a good goal to work for. The theory is, each gun is "registered" to one's person palm prints (the legal purchaser of the gun), and only that person can fire that gun. If another person tries, the gun simply will not fire. Thus, stolen guns become useless, and cannot be used to harm anybody in the course of a crime."



Sad thing about the Cleaveland shootings is that the kid forewarned people and the principal and even though the school had metal detectors, they were not used regularly.
Stupidity.
Investigators seek motive for Ohio school shooting - USATODAY.com







Grace and Peace

About guns not being the only weapon.

Where I live I am more scared of walking out on the street at night, because every other person is speeding.

A few days ago a guy of about 21 years,ran a stop light and took a wrong turn, he skidded,flew of his bike and landed on some parked vehicles.He passed away the same night.And this seems to be on the rise in my community.
Those give me nightmares more than guns(as guns are never seen/used by civillians legally or illegally)


As Skell said, it is different in different cultures I guess.

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Originally Posted by inthebox

Apparently guns and crime are a problem in Canada:
Government of Ontario, Canada - News

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99% of that crime is in Toronto, and it's done by immigrant Jamaican gangs. There's a reason why I don't live there. I've had two lucrative job offers in T.O. but turned them both down. Having been in Montreal most of my life and seen a lot of friends move to Toronto I know all about it. Same for anyone choosing to live in the Bronx or Harlem or Detroit or South Central L.A.

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Originally Posted by inthebox

Data from the FBI and the uniform crime report:
NRA-ILA :: Articles

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Hehe, I know I'm not supposed to harp on the source but it's from the NRA, LOL! That's like wanting to have rabbit stew and calling PETA to get their opinion on it. Anyway that article has nothing to do with Canada or the canadian mentality; it's focused on the americans believing that owning guns is a constitutional right damnit! I believe that we have less violent crime because we have less desperate people here.