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  • Oct 27, 2013, 07:02 AM
    excon
    Hello again,

    Yeah, Sebillius is in for a rough ride with Issa. Of course, we KNOW he's not an investigator. He just wants to make political points, and it's gonna be a circus.. Of course, I'll be watching...

    Meanwhile, the website WILL be fixed, and you'll have nothing to squeal about anymore. Yaaaaawwn!!

    The GOOD news is that 30 million people who've NEVER had health insurance are gonna GET it. You wingers LIKE insurance, don't you?? You UNDERSTAND why you have it, don't you? Why would you deny others the security of having, what you yourself enjoy???

    Doncha think that's rather SELFISH of you? I do.

    excon
  • Oct 27, 2013, 07:03 AM
    talaniman
    Me too
  • Oct 27, 2013, 08:49 AM
    tomder55
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by excon View Post

    The GOOD news is that 30 million people who've NEVER had health insurance are gonna GET it. excon

    Maybe ,but so far it looks like millions are being kicked off the insurance they formerly had ;even though the emperor insisted that if you like your plan you can keep it.
  • Oct 27, 2013, 08:52 AM
    Wondergirl
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by tomder55 View Post
    Maybe ,but so far it looks like millions are being kicked off the insurance they formerly had ;even though the emperor insisted that if you like your plan you can keep it.

    So far so good at my house.

    Oh, and Medicare and, much more recently, Medicare D were a disaster at first too, but everyone loved them once they got straightened out.
  • Oct 27, 2013, 08:57 AM
    excon
    Hello again, tom:
    Quote:

    it looks like millions are being kicked off the insurance they formerly had ;even though the emperor insisted that if you like your plan you can keep it.
    What's happening, is that Obamacare REQUIRES a certain level of coverage that existing policies don't cover.. Given that the requirements are GOOD for the consumer and NOT especially good for the companies, they're BETTER off buying their health care through the exchanges. It's BOUND to be better insurance at LESS cost.

    You'll never hear that from FOX News.

    excon
  • Oct 27, 2013, 09:15 AM
    tomder55
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by excon View Post
    Hello again, tom:
    What's happening, is that Obamacare REQUIRES a certain level of coverage that existing policies don't cover.. Given that the requirements are GOOD for the consumer and NOT especially good for the companies, they're BETTER off buying their health care through the exchanges. It's BOUND to be better insurance at LESS cost.

    You'll never hear that from FOX News.

    excon

    Because it aint true . People actually had the coverage they wanted . Adding needless coverage is not better coverage . Also they are being forced to purchase insurance at higher costs . They exchanges are going to implode because the only people signing up on the exchanges are Medicaid eligible so the cost death spiral will bring down the insurance companies... which of course was the whole not so secret agenda of the plan.
  • Oct 27, 2013, 09:22 AM
    excon
    Hello again, tom:
    Quote:

    which of course was the whole not so secret agenda of the plan.
    So, you think Obama built FAILURE into his plan, because, of course, the country WOULD let him try again...

    Bwa, ha ha ha ha ha.. Snicker, snicker...

    excon
  • Oct 27, 2013, 10:19 AM
    cdad
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by excon View Post
    Hello again, tom:
    What's happening, is that Obamacare REQUIRES a certain level of coverage that existing policies don't cover.. Given that the requirements are GOOD for the consumer and NOT especially good for the companies, they're BETTER off buying their health care through the exchanges. It's BOUND to be better insurance at LESS cost.

    You'll never hear that from FOX News.

    excon

    Actuallt its not going to be better nor at less cost. That is already shown to be proven fact. Those that are getting kicked off of State rolls are going to have high deductables and copays that they never had before. Many will lay destitute because they can't afford the coverage that they are going to get. Not due to premium costs but the cost of the policy requirements.

    A 40/60 plan is not what I would call the panacea that your calling it after many of these people have been getting mostly free care.
  • Oct 27, 2013, 11:29 AM
    talaniman
    Mostly free care? What is that? What kind of care did they get that was mostly free?
  • Oct 27, 2013, 11:43 AM
    Wondergirl
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by cdad View Post
    many of these people have been getting mostly free care.

    What free care?
  • Oct 27, 2013, 02:16 PM
    paraclete
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by talaniman View Post
    Mostly free care? What is that? What kind of care did they get that was mostly free?

    Some odd thinking here, there is no free care under an insurance plan, what it is is prepaid care
  • Oct 27, 2013, 03:46 PM
    cdad
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by talaniman View Post
    Mostly free care? What is that? What kind of care did they get that was mostly free?

    Doctors vists and hospital visits were paid for but there was a drug copay of very little like $5. That is about the only thing some paid for in some states.
  • Oct 27, 2013, 03:48 PM
    Wondergirl
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by cdad View Post
    Doctors vists and hospital visits were paid for but there was a drug copay of very little like $5. That is about the only thing some paid for in some states.

    And what paid the rest of the costs?
  • Oct 27, 2013, 03:50 PM
    cdad
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Wondergirl View Post
    And what paid the rest of the costs?

    The State medical insurance program.
  • Oct 27, 2013, 03:50 PM
    Wondergirl
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by cdad View Post
    The State medical insurance program.

    Your and my tax dollars. Medicaid.
  • Oct 28, 2013, 04:34 AM
    speechlesstx
    Don't shoot me, I'm just posting more 'spurious' reports.


    Quote:

    Some health insurance gets pricier as Obamacare rolls out - latimes.com

    “This is when the actual sticker shock comes into play for people,” said Gerald Kominski, director of the UCLA Center for Health Policy Research. “There are winners and losers under the Affordable Care Act.”

    Fullerton resident Jennifer Harris thought she had a great deal, paying $98 a month for an individual plan through Health Net Inc.She got a rude surprise this month when the company said it would cancel her policy at the end of this year. Her current plan does not conform with the new federal rules, which require more generous levels of coverage.

    Now Harris, a self-employed lawyer, must shop for replacement insurance. The cheapest plan she has found will cost her $238 a month. She and her husband don’t qualify for federal premium subsidies because they earn too much money, about $80,000 a year combined.

    “It doesn’t seem right to make the middle class pay so much more in order to give health insurance to everybody else,” said Harris, who is three months pregnant. “This increase is simply not affordable.”
  • Oct 28, 2013, 04:40 AM
    tomder55
    Except if the overriding goal of the Obots is wealth redistribution. Then it makes perfect sense.
  • Oct 28, 2013, 04:42 AM
    paraclete
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by tomder55 View Post
    Except if the overriding goal of the Obots is wealth redistribution. Then it makes perfect sense.

    That's what taxation is for Tom
  • Oct 28, 2013, 04:42 AM
    speechlesstx
    They should redustribute their own wealth.
  • Oct 28, 2013, 04:47 AM
    tomder55
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by paraclete View Post
    That's what taxation is for Tom

    Besides the taxing power enumerated in the Constitution ,that is correct.
  • Oct 28, 2013, 04:57 AM
    talaniman
    The trouble with these anecdotes and stories is we never find out why their old cheap policies don't meet the requirements of the new laws. It's one thing to balk at a higher rate, but not knowing what they like besides the cheap price is important in any judgment of the new law.

    Nobody else is curious what kind of coverages those cheap insurances have? If we don't know then its about sticker shock and NOT services. You cannot compare what they had to what they will get without that huge tidbit of information that's mysteriously never divulged.
  • Oct 28, 2013, 05:14 AM
    speechlesstx
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by talaniman View Post
    The trouble with these anecdotes and stories is we never find out why their old cheap policies don't meet the requirements of the new laws. It's one thing to balk at a higher rate, but not knowing what they like besides the cheap price is important in any judgment of the new law.

    Nobody else is curious what kind of coverages those cheap insurances have? If we don't know then its about sticker shock and NOT services. You cannot compare what they had to what they will get without that huge tidbit of information that's mysteriously never divulged.

    No, the trouble is they liked their insurance, they could afford their insurance, were promised they could keep their insurance, and Obama had forced them to lose their insurance and buy something they didn't want and can't afford.
  • Oct 28, 2013, 05:15 AM
    tomder55
    it's what the customer wanted... it's called 'choice' .
  • Oct 28, 2013, 05:31 AM
    excon
    Hello again, tom:
    Quote:

    it's what the customer wanted... it's called 'choice' .
    I don't have a choice whether I want to buy car insurance.. As a right winger, I'm SURE you support my decision to cancel my polity.

    excon
  • Oct 28, 2013, 05:41 AM
    speechlesstx
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by excon View Post
    Hello again, tom:
    I don't have a choice whether I want to buy car insurance.. As a right winger, I'm SURE you support my decision to cancel my polity.

    excon

    You have a choice to drive or not, this is just another way you lefties punish us for existing.
  • Oct 28, 2013, 05:49 AM
    talaniman
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by speechlesstx View Post
    No, the trouble is they liked their insurance, they could afford their insurance, were promised they could keep their insurance, and Obama had forced them to lose their insurance and buy something they didn't want and can't afford.

    My question was what did they like besides the price? Just curious as to what coverages they get for their cheap insurance. Aren't you?

    I mean you can like the price, but never know what you are paying for. Conversely you can hate the price, but need the coverage.

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by tomder55 View Post
    it's what the customer wanted... it's called 'choice' .

    Ever hear of you get what you pay for? So educate me and tell me what do you get from cheap insurance besides a cut rate price? I will note the unhappy lawyers in the last anecdote are pregnant and should expect extra costs in not just insurance but in many other areas of costs, like diapers formulae and baby doctors.

    That's not wealth redistribution by government. it's the cost of the joy of a life changing event and a choice they made to start a family. It's what they wanted.
  • Oct 28, 2013, 05:53 AM
    tomder55
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by excon View Post
    Hello again, tom:
    I don't have a choice whether I want to buy car insurance.. As a right winger, I'm SURE you support my decision to cancel my polity.

    excon

    You have a choice about owning a car... also the insurance for autos is to cover damage you do to others . The comprehensive insurance for yourself is voluntary and you do have a choice of the coverage you desire.
  • Oct 28, 2013, 05:55 AM
    tomder55
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by talaniman View Post
    My question was what did they like besides the price? Just curious as to what coverages they get for their cheap insurance. Aren't you?

    I mean you can like the price, but never know what you are paying for. Conversely you can hate the price, but need the coverage.



    Ever hear of you get what you pay for? So educate me and tell me what do you get from cheap insurance besides a cut rate price? I will note the unhappy lawyers in the last anecdote are pregnant and should expect extra costs in not just insurance but in many other areas of costs, like diapers formulae and baby doctors.

    That's not wealth redistribution by government. it's the cost of the joy of a life changing event and a choice they made to start a family. It's what they wanted.

    There's lots of BS in the new mandated coverage that I don't want .
  • Oct 28, 2013, 06:11 AM
    excon
    Hello again, wingers:
    Quote:

    You have a choice to drive or not,
    So, if I don't wanna drive, I don't HAVE to buy insurance... Got it.

    But, I DON'T have a choice about living. Therefore, given your argument, that means I SHOULD be REQUIRED to buy insurance??? Yes??? No???? I can't figure you guys out.

    excon
  • Oct 28, 2013, 06:23 AM
    tomder55
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by excon View Post
    Hello again, wingers:
    So, if I don't wanna drive, I don't HAVE to buy insurance... Got it.

    But, I DON'T have a choice about living. Therefore, given your argument, that means I SHOULD be REQUIRED to buy insurance??? Yes??? No???? I can't figure you guys out.

    excon

    Again ,the mandatory insurance for autos if for damage you do to someone else's property or person. The insurance for personal coverage is completely a matter of choice.
  • Oct 28, 2013, 06:37 AM
    speechlesstx
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by talaniman View Post
    My question was what did they like besides the price? Just curious as to what coverages they get for their cheap insurance. Aren't you?

    I mean you can like the price, but never know what you are paying for. Conversely you can hate the price, but need the coverage.

    What part of stay out of our lives and don't force us to buy your crap sandwiches don't you understand? You of all people should sympathize with that point.



    Quote:

    Ever hear of you get what you pay for? So educate me and tell me what do you get from cheap insurance besides a cut rate price? I will note the unhappy lawyers in the last anecdote are pregnant and should expect extra costs in not just insurance but in many other areas of costs, like diapers formulae and baby doctors.
    Ever hear of mind your own business?
  • Oct 28, 2013, 06:38 AM
    excon
    Hello again, tom:
    Quote:

    The insurance for personal coverage is completely a matter of choice.
    If the cost of my PERSONAL choice WASN'T passed on to the taxpayers, I'd agree.. However, it impacts my pocketbook, whether he runs into my car, or runs into the ER.

    excon
  • Oct 28, 2013, 06:39 AM
    talaniman
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by tomder55 View Post
    Again ,the mandatory insurance for autos if for damage you do to someone else's property or person. The insurance for personal coverage is completely a matter of choice.

    The cost of health insurance is one of many things that have gone up. Rent, utilities, gas, and groceries, water, and flushing your toilet. They are choices too aren't they? To stabilize any cost you have to have a floor, and a ceiling and work to keep things in a range. You also have to have a priority, and health and associated cost are right up at the top for most families.

    Its one of those rather have and not need, than need and not have things. Like toilet paper. You can choose what to wipe your a$$ with and live with the choice you make. Corn cobs will not flush and have crap water all over the bath room.

    Corn cobs ain't cheap. Neither are doctor visits. No such thing as live free or die. You pay to live and then you die.

    So what does a hundred bucks a month get you as far as health insurance goes?
  • Oct 28, 2013, 06:43 AM
    speechlesstx
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by talaniman View Post
    The cost of health insurance is one of many things that have gone up. Rent, utilities, gas, and groceries, water, and flushing your toilet. They are choices too aren't they? To stabilize any cost you have to have a floor, and a ceiling and work to keep things in a range. You also have to have a priority, and health and associated cost are right up at the top for most families.

    Its one of those rather have and not need, than need and not have things. Like toilet paper. You can choose what to wipe your a$$ with and live with the choice you make. Corn cobs will not flush and have crap water all over the bath room.

    Corn cobs ain't cheap. Neither are doctor visits. No such thing as live free or die. You pay to live and then you die.

    So what does a hundred bucks a month get you as far as health insurance goes?

    What part of "affordable", "if you like your insurance you can keep your insurance" and don't force me to buy your crap sandwich don't you get?
  • Oct 28, 2013, 07:40 AM
    talaniman
    I seem to keep asking questions and getting no answers. If you don't know, you don't know.

    Why is ordinary toilet paper more than the colored rolls we use to get? What's a working guy to do when the price of milk goes up, and the paycheck does not.

    I know Obama and the liberals did that too? No further questions your Honors. You don't seem to have any answers, so you probably have no solutions. And you question what I get, and don't get?

    SAD!
  • Oct 28, 2013, 08:00 AM
    tomder55
    Quote:

    So what does a hundred bucks a month get you as far as health insurance goes?
    Who pays for the balance of the cost of the medical expenses for those who are going to be fined... oops I mean taxed (by the IRS ,which doesn't have the authority to collect the fine except through income tax refunds .) Who pays for your so called single payer alternative ? The same ones evidently who pay for it in the system we had before Obamacare. So how did your incompetent screwing up of a system that most people liked change that equation ?
  • Oct 28, 2013, 09:55 AM
    speechlesstx
    I don't buy colored TP, it's called choice. Meanwhile, while you're celebrating the demise of the TP, it's not looking too rosy for Dems right now either.

    Quote:

    Incoming from Democrats:

    "Dem Party is F****d." That was the subject line of an email sent to me Sunday by a senior Democratic consultant with strong ties to the White House and Capitol Hill. The body of the email contained a link to this Los Angeles Times story about Obamacare "sticker shock:"

    "These middle-class consumers are staring at hefty increases on their insurance bills as the overhaul remakes the healthcare market. Their rates are rising in large part to help offset the higher costs of covering sicker, poorer people who have been shut out of the system for years."

    "Although recent criticism of the healthcare law has focused on website glitches and early enrollment snags, experts say sharp price increases for individual policies have the greatest potential to erode public support for President Obama's signature legislation."



    In his story, reporter Chad Terhune also quoted a letter sent to a California insurance company executive. "I was all for Obamacare," wrote a young woman complaining about a 50 percent rate hike related to the health care law, "until I found out I was paying for it."

    Also of interest to the Democratic consultant: A Josh Barro column on Obama's promise that "if you like your health plan, you can keep your health plan." It was never a reasonable pledge, Barro argues, and it's being proven false. He called this "a good thing" because "a lot of existing health plans were bad." Reforming the nation's health care system "was necessarily going to have to change a lot of people's health plans," Barro wrote.

    The Democratic consultant said none of this is news to him, but he wonders why Obama wasn't honest with Americans. He predicted surprise and outrage over higher costs and lesser coverage. "We will own this problem forever," the Democrat wrote.
  • Oct 28, 2013, 10:02 AM
    NeedKarma
    Quote:

    "I was all for Obamacare, until I found out I was paying for it."
    What? How ignorant is this anonymous person?
  • Oct 28, 2013, 10:06 AM
    tomder55
    Quote:

    The Democratic consultant said none of this is news to him, but he wonders why Obama wasn't honest with Americans. He predicted surprise and outrage over higher costs and lesser coverage. "We will own this problem forever," the Democrat wrote.
    The thing that would be a surprise would be if the emperor was ever honest with us.
  • Oct 28, 2013, 10:26 AM
    speechlesstx
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by NeedKarma View Post
    What? How ignorant is this anonymous person?

    How ignorant are these people that ignored our warnings?

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