It's not a smear when it's true. Also you do the same to muslims but it's OK when YOU do it.
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It's not a smear when it's true. Also you do the same to muslims but it's OK when YOU do it.
I know, it's the go-to smear along with the crusades, the inquisition and witch trials.Quote:
Originally Posted by tomder55
Your statement would be true if I were doing the same to muslims . But I am not .
This one is more recent as victims keep showing up.Quote:
Originally Posted by speechlesstx
That's a flat-out lie, NK. We've been abundantly clear in making the distinction between radical Islamists and the rest. It's you who lumps all Christians together with your attacks.Quote:
Originally Posted by NeedKarma
And my point in noting we have a playground is, as it is with the majority of churches you have zero instances of clergy abuse in my church to point to.Quote:
Originally Posted by NeedKarma
Then what's the problem, it isn't radical islamists that will be in this building, right?Quote:
Originally Posted by speechlesstx
Witch trials - At least 30,000 men, women and children (yes, children) tortured and burned for being anti-church. Please remember that we're NOT just talking about Salem and New England when we talk about the Witch Trials. We're talking about a several HUNDRED year campaign to wipe out any trace of matriarchal societies and worship of the Goddess. ANYONE who did not follow church dogma was burned--not just a few women who some bored teenage girls pointed fingers at.Quote:
Originally Posted by speechlesstx
Inquisition - An estimated 20,000 people tortured and killed. A mostly economic war perpetuated by the Catholic church on anyone who had anything they wanted. I would like to point out that the Inquisition perfected several truly heinous forms of torture that they would use on children as young as 2 years old. Anyone declared a heretic would have their property confiscated, and any heirs would ALSO be accused of at least beign an accessory to witchcraft. Any child that did not denounce their parents as witches ran the risk of torture themselves and of being left penniless even without the torture. The church could ALSO declare people already dead to be witches and heretics, and would exhume the bodies and burn the bones--and then confiscate the "witch's" property from the heirs. This would sometimes happen up to 50-70 years AFTER a person died.
Crusades -- record keeping seems to have been abominable, but the numbers seem to tally up to over a million people killed on both sides--but one battle alone for Jerusalem left some 40,000 Muslims dead. Another battle left 8,000 Jews dead. And before someone gets high-handed about the Christians taking back Christian sites from the Muslims who had taken them a few centuries before---please remember that these are sites sacred to the MUSLIMS too, and to the Jews. The Old Testament sites are sacred to all THREE religions.
So... extreme torture and slaughter over centuries for political and economic reasons, and we should just accept the apology of Christians? Isn't that kind of like the Germans becoming a world power and apologizing for Hitler and expecting the world to forget it and move on?
The ninth crusade ended in 1272 - 738 years ago. The last of the Salem witch trials was in 1693 - 317 years ago. The last of the inquisitions was in 1860 - 150 years ago. I wasn't around for any of that Synnen, I have nothing to apologize for.
Um... that is incorrect. Islam did not exist at the time of nor is it mentioned in the Old testiment... it came about 700 years AFTER the advent of Christianity, which also is not mentioned in the Old Testiment, while the Old Testiment is shared by Jews and Christians alike, the NEW TESTIMENT was written POST Jesus Christ who incidentally was born a Jew himself.Quote:
Originally Posted by Synnen
Just because you steal something from someone under armed force... doesn't make it YOURS. If that was true, Japan, and Europe would be US Territories if not part of the USA. Since we took back Europe from the Nazi's who took it from someone else in the first place. That didn't make it morally or rightfully ours any more or less than Islam was entitled to lands they took by force.
Incidentally where are you coming up with those numbers of witches burned. THere wasn't 30,000 non-native indians (basicly European Settlers) living in what became the USA at that time.
Synnen correctly said OT SITES are sacred to all three religions. Two of those sites are Jerusalem and the Mount Sinai area.Quote:
Originally Posted by Synnen
Why has no one objected during the past year to the Muslim use of the abandoned Burlington Coat Factory building at 41 Park Place as a mosque?
Because Its not Two blocks from a terrorist attack site. Distance has everything to do with the significane of a memorial from the stire it memorializes.Quote:
Originally Posted by Wondergirl
There also is an existing Mosque that predates 9/11 a block and a half further away... besides... this is all about WHAT someone is building and WHERE they intend to build it.
Funny that the people arguing the Muslims shoudfl get a fast track and government assistance to build a Mohammed Attah terrorist Memorial are the very same people that fought against a Cross being erected where people might or might not actually see it.
What happened to the lefts insistence of separation of Church and state when it comes to anything Christian. But insist on government HELP for Muslims.
Hello again:
Given that you acknowledge they have a RIGHT to build, your protest is NOTHING more than stating your opinion, which you have the RIGHT to do...
But, are there not SOME of you who think government should DO something?? You, tom, mentioned some local politician who was going to take away the mosque under eminent domain. THAT government intrusion didn't seem to upset you. In fact, I think you LIKED it.
If they DID pass a zoning law to STOP it, would you come to the aid of the victim of religious repression, or would you cheer? Do you see my confusion when you say you support the Constitution?? Nahhh. Probably not.
excon
So the Jews who had it first... somehow don't merit precidence... not the Christians who were there too long before the Muslims. And those sites are only Sacred to muslims because they tried and failed to commit Genocide of anyone who did not worship their Pedophile Messiah.Quote:
Originally Posted by Wondergirl
And tangentally... should not parts of Poland and France be returned to Germany since that was taken from them and was historically theirs. Why does Islam merit special rights with the left. Is that where the majority of their campauin contributions are actually coming from? Unnamed Overseas sources?
Good point, less than two weeks after SCOTUS ruled a memorial cross in the Mojave desert could stay, someone stole it. Is that the kind of example we should follow in this case?
Hello again,
So, how far from ground zero SHOULD the Muslim free zone be? You say two blocks is too close, but you won't say how far is cool. Come on, don't you know? Should it extend all the way to Murfreesboro, Ky? Some Kentuckians think so.
excon
Who is paying for that... any American Citizens... OH right... thats all a great secret.Quote:
Originally Posted by excon
Because we know its NOT Americans doing it... and NOBODY has pointed out where forign entities can waltz right in, take what they want and do what they want in defiance of American Citizens...
THe Terrorist loving Baby molestor Imam who wants to do this Doesn't have the money... and refuses to disclose who's paying for it.
Maybe because his buddies in the Opium Trade are really the ones buying it with Drug Money.
Nobody just "finds" 100 million dollars laying around.
ANd incidentally, justify Muslims RIGHT to build a memorial to the 9/11 terrorits a stiones throw from ground zero... yet AMERICAN school children are not allowed to express their religion in a voluntary prayer or a school function because Chirstians has fewer rights then Muslims to the left? That is abundently apparent in the lefties arguments and previous hatred and anti christian actions the previous 40 years.
I think that's fair...Quote:
Originally Posted by excon
Until ISLAMIC nuts allow a Christian Church to be constructed in BOTH Medina and Mecca, I think a reciprical moritorium on ALL Miosque Construction should be put into place.
After all if MOST muslims are such a reasonible and friendly bunch like the left argues, that shouldn't be a problem. I'm sure most churches could gather enough money to fund the construction there. Fair is fair.
After All it's the left that argues Islam is a religion of peace, and Tollerance. Something I have yet to see examples of anyplace in the world you get more than 100 muslims together. Particularly when they are the Majority, which they always gain usually through killings and intimidation.
Individually many probibly are nice.(many I know are)... but get enough together then a mindset to dominate and destroy anyone who opposes their beliefs takes over.
The total lack of respect and sensitivity they (Muslims) express towards Americans proves it in their insistence to do this regardless what non-muslims think of it.
Maybe we should burn Martin Luther King effigies on Lee Jackson day...
Or would that not be considered offensive and disrespectful to blacks? You know like the Mohammed Attah Memorial wouldn't be disrespectful and offensive to most Americans?
So if we find that an institution is funded by people with ties to terrorism should that institution be shut down?Quote:
Originally Posted by smoothy
Hello again,
Uh, oh. I think NK is about to expose the terrorist who is the second largest stockholder of FOX NEWS.
excon
Damn you! :)
Ah ha... Glad YOU mentioned that...Quote:
Originally Posted by NeedKarma
The answer is Yes... and there are multiple examples where that HAS happened.
There is in fact a law on the books to that effect. There have been many places effectively laundering money from Terrorists as well as Drug trade sources in the Middle east. Some were pretending to be Islamic Charities.
THere were examples of that within miles of where I live.
There was also a Islamic Center that was busted in Merrifield VA for teaching Jihad was a proper and acceptable action. So much for claims of the mythical peaceful and tollerant Muslim. They were Funded by the Saudis Primarily in that case.
So what do we do with this?
Yes, it is. It's the building that will be razed (and has been determined not to be a historical landmark after all) to allow for the building of the community center.Quote:
Originally Posted by smoothy
(I go away for a half hour, and youse guys fill up three pages while I'm gone!)
Hello again, NK:Quote:
Originally Posted by NeedKarma
Didn't mean to steal your thunder. Explain it to our friend, smoothy. Maybe you can even link us to Jon Stuart who catched 'em.
excon
I'll wait for his reply. I'm a little busy with a task at work now.
It has nothing to do with who "had" it, but has everything to do with how those sites are valued. For instance, Muslims believe the Al-Aqsa Mosque in Jerusalem is the first Qibla (direction of prayer). An area near Mount Sinai is considered holy ground, not because of a battle but because it's mentioned in the Quran (sort of like Bethel in the Jacob's Ladder story).Quote:
Originally Posted by smoothy
Because no one knew about it ?Quote:
Originally Posted by Wondergirl
A couple misconceptions
It is not an abandoned building. The owner attempted to sell it after the attack made it unoccupiable (I wonder how they were able to hold services for 450 people in a building not approved for occupancy ? ). The building was sold to Soho Properties real estate developer Sharif El-Gamal at bargain basement prices because the building was damaged in the attack... who stated the plan was to build condos .It was after the purchase that the
Suddenly the plan changed to convert the site to a Victory Mosque.
The current building is a relatively small 4-5 story othewise undescript building 600 feet from the WTC . The plan is to make it a towering 13 story structure that will be easily visible by people who visit the eventual 9-11 memorial .
To answer the question of how far away is appropriate ;there is already mosques that are not called Cordoba (to conjur images of the Ummah's conquest in the West ) 4 blocks away. There never have ,nor will there ever be objections to those mosques.
If the Muslim-American schoolchildren pray Christian prayers along with the Christian-American schoolchildren, will the Christian-American pray Muslim prayers along with the Muslim-American schoolchildren?Quote:
Originally Posted by smoothy
Burlington Coat Factory is still in there? According to a number of Internet sites, "Until its 2009 purchase the building lay abandoned."Quote:
Originally Posted by tomder55
Where did the word "victory" come from?Quote:
the plan changed to convert the site to a Victory Mosque.
Quote:
Originally Posted by smoothy
Islam is based on the first-born son of Abraham--Ishmael. The SAME places that are important to Christians and Jews are important to Muslims.
If we want to talk about taking it doesn't mean it's yours---does that mean you're ready to hand any of YOUR property back to the native Americans?
And witch burnings happened ALL across Europe over a several hundred year time.
Right-wing talking points.Quote:
Originally Posted by Wondergirl
Well, being I'm far from weathy enough to be the majority stockholder in a single local donut shop... it can't be me.Quote:
Originally Posted by excon
Islam isn't based on Ishmael... they Worship Mohammed as their Messiah. Mohammed wasn't born until the 7th centuay AD.Quote:
Originally Posted by Synnen
That's the same as Saying Christianity wasn't based on Jesus Christ.
As far as ownership...
Existing legal precident holds in that case... example - They are STILL finding and returning artwork that was stolen from Jews under the Nazi's. Usually to heirs of the victims.
Doesn't matter who paid for it or how much,. stolen is stolen.
Explain it to the cops if the deal you got on Craigs list was too good to pass up. Cops come after it... guess who gets to keep it... (Hint, it won't be you).
So, it was not abandoned, just unoccupied. But it must have been condemned so that no one was allowed to use it, i.e. "not approved for occupancy."Quote:
Originally Posted by tomder55
It was unoccupied until it was purchased by Soho Properties in June 2009. Did they rehab to make it habitable again?
But if it was a terrorist sympathizer should Fox be banned from broadcasting in the US?Quote:
Originally Posted by smoothy
From the Latin, victoria. Or was it Joe Biden when he declared Obama had won the war in Iraq?Quote:
Originally Posted by NeedKarma
Islam considers Ishmael as the ancestor of Arab people.Quote:
Originally Posted by smoothy
Since when?Quote:
they Worship Mohammed as their Messiah.
Naw. I think President Bush had said something about a mission accomplished. He was on a boat or something when he said it.Quote:
Originally Posted by speechlesstx
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