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Likely they will not is more like the truth. If they had negotiated properly then we wouldn't be having the mess we are in. I have seen plenty of businesses shut down by the unions. Why? Because they think they have a blank check when it comes to contracts. Reality says different.Quote:
Originally Posted by talaniman
Economic reality is that market and management affect the health of business more than unions do, and there is profit to be made buying and selling a business that has nothing to do with labor agreements.
But, if you are of the mindset that workers who help turn your idea into profit have no stake in the success or failure of what ever business you have then of course its very easy to blame the workers for failure. The fact is that most workers, union or not are the first to make adjustments to business during leaner times.
I use the loss of manufacturing jobs as a case where after MANY years of wage stagnation and contract concessions, still lost jobs to cheaper labor elsewhere across the globe. In almost every case, workers lost a livelihood and everything else they worked hard for, while business thrived even more.
So to blame unions for business decisions is basically prejudicial, and misguided. The boss lost his business, but he seldom loses a dime. I respectfully submit that investors and upper management make out like the bandits they are while passing the loses onto workers, and former workers who believed the promises of security that was wiped out by business shenanigan they have no power over.
All business seems to care about is the cheapest labor they can get, because free labor is illegal.
While those evil corporations are busy apparently running roughshod over employees, the architects of Obamacare are helping them while raking in the big bucks as lobbyists.
ObamaCare's architects reap windfall as Washington lobbyists - The Hill - covering Congress, Politics, Political Campaigns and Capitol Hill | TheHill.com
Must be nice to be able to use legislative power to create a cushy job for yourself while shoveling the disastrous consequences off on the little guy.
Yes it is obvious some people can't sleep at night
Remember when there was a penalty for the individual mandate for not signing onto a plan ? Then SCOTUS twisted the wording of the law and called it a "tax " to justify it's constitutionality ? Well the Obots have renamed it once again.
The final rule on Obamacare's individual mandate, released this week by the IRS , uses the term “Shared Responsibility Payment for Not Maintaining Minimum Essential Coverage” more than 50 times to describe the mandate's penalty, ooops I mean tax. \
http://www.irs.gov/PUP/newsroom/REG-148500-12%20FR.pdf
How you must hate that concept of shared responsibility, otherwise known as socialism
A tax is a tax... a penalty is a penalty . To call it "shared responsibility" is dishonest Orwellian Obama-speak. Don't look now ;but the emperor is about to embark on another "kinetic military action ". But I digress . It should be noted that the emperor and Congress have deemed it fine that they and their staff are exempt from this "shared responsibility" I guess some pigs are more equal than others.
Hello again,
Tax, schmax... People will LIVE now who would have died...Quote:
a tax is a tax .
Excon
But this term was used by the same organisation that brought you the investigation of right wing charitable organisations, I know you think they are biased but there is nothing tax collectors like more than a good tax they can get their teeth into, after all, all tax is to fund a shared responsibilityQuote:
Originally Posted by tomder55
Nah ,taxes properly employed and administered fund the necessary duties of the government . You lefties use it as a redistribution tool and call it shared responsibility to disguise the theft .
A leftie?Quote:
Originally Posted by tomder55
Hospital and taxpayers who bear the cost of emergency room visits is redistribution too isn't it? Why are you for that?
I thought that was what you lefties expected from those who have and corporations making gazillions, paying our fair share to help the needy.Quote:
Originally Posted by talaniman
I wouldn't have a beeyatch if it were just you and your corporations, but taxpayers? You and your corporations don't pay your fair share in taxes or wages.
What is a fair share ?Quote:
Originally Posted by talaniman
Oh I don't know can we settle for 110%
Who is this "you" you speak of? I pay my taxes.Quote:
Originally Posted by talaniman
Yeah I used to do that but it's a bad scene so Now I don't need to, very liberating, I figure I don't need any air craft carriers this year
How about just admitting.. if you can afford to have an Iphone... you can afford to pay for your own medical insurance.
Hello again,
Yeah, yeah, yeah... Obamacare is flawed. But, the right wing has NO plan. They want a repeal to WHAT, I've asked before. I'm told back to what we had.
Or, maybe I wasn't, because the response was muddled. I'm asking for a CLEAR and CONCISE plan, if you have one...
But, you DON'T, and we ain't NEVER going back to a time when people died because they didn't have health insurance...
So, until YOU have a plan, your criticism falls on deaf ears.. It's the LAW. It's going to REMAIN the LAW. You need to get OVER it.
excon
I've never seen so many people so excited over something they admit sucks.
They don't like it... just like most lefties and welfare recipients... they want something free that others will have to pay the tab for.Quote:
Originally Posted by speechlesstx
Hello again, Steve:
It sucks LESS than what we had. And, I see that you have NO response to my question. It WAS you who told me that going back to what we had is what you think we should do...Quote:
I've never seen so many people so excited over something they admit sucks.
Or, maybe you didn't tell me that, because you really weren't clear.. Doncha think NOW is a good time for clarity? I'd be WILLING to dump Obamacare for Speechlesscare if you'd only tell me what that is..
I ASK, because we KNOW that even the right wing LOVES the good stuff in Obamacare... They just don't want to PAY for it.
Excon
It sucks a LOT MORE than what we've had... but then I wasn't a cheap SOB so I bought my insurance before I spent my money on stupid stuff.
I have gotten great health care before now as a result.
We have given answers but you ignore them, but yes I'd rather go back to what we had than have our federal government running things. And what gets me is none of you lefties seem to be bothered by all the special interest carve outs that are still coming. I thought you hated such favoritism, seeing as how it goes against your core beliefs.
Hello again, Steve:
I didn't like the carve outs for the insurance industry that Obama put IN the law to ATTRACT right wing support, but that didn't happen... I didn't LIKE any of the stuff he put in there for no good reason because right wing support was NEVER going to happen, and Obama was naïve enough to think it would.Quote:
And what gets me is none of you lefties seem to be bothered by all the special interest carve outs that are still coming
So, these carve outs ain't much different than the other ones.
Let me ask you something else... You KNOW we're NOT going to go back, don't you?? You don't really think you can STOP it, even by shutting down the government, do you? Do you support shutting down the government if Obamacare is not de-funded?
Excon
Just wait to you try and convince all these young adults who are barely making it in this Obamaeconomy that the cost of their healthcare is going to sky rocket to pay for all these carve outs and special deals for geezers.
Hello again, tom:
Nahhhh... When the exchanges become available, rates will drop.Quote:
in this Obamaeconomy that the cost of their healthcare is going to sky rocket
Excon
I'm pretty sure you aren't using that meme correctly.
Nah... its meant for the people that think the Medical Industry is screwing them as they sleep... the ones that believe Obamacare will cure everything and be free for everyone.
All they have to do is find millions of doctors willing to pay a fortune and spend years in medical school , set up and run offices and buy equipment... to work for free. So welfare bums can get something for nothing.
No one thinks that, it's the insurance industry that is doing that.Quote:
Medical Industry is screwing them as they sleep
Yeah, Ohioans will save 21% on premiums - based on the expected increase of 22% - thanks to subsidies. Nebraskans could see a 143% increase and Wisconsinites up to a 125% increase in premiums.Quote:
Originally Posted by excon
If all those young 'uns that can't afford it sign up there's bound to be a little room for prices to come down from there.
Obamacare forces insurers to charge their oldest beneficiaries no more than 3 x what they charge their youngest ones(“community rating.”) This, despite the fact that these geezers have 6x the health care expenditures that younger people face.If insurers can't charge older people according to their risk, they have to make up those costs by charging higher premiums to those younger. The net effect is a redistribution of insurance costs from the old to the young. Now you know why AARP was so gung-ho for the law.Quote:
Originally Posted by excon
The plan to let them old geezers just die got voted down. Hmm, we could cut the middle man out and save a lot of loot. Or YOU could pay for the young kid with no insurance when he wrecks his bike and body hot dogging for some chick.
Its not lost on anyone that the alternative to Obama care is going back to insurance companies make their profits. Even though the naysayers already have insurance that rises steadily and has been for 30 years.
No it didn't Obamacare took care of that too.You like to call it the IPAB... but I call it what it is ,the death panel . But the cool thing is that Dem geezers like Democratic National Committee Chairman Dr. Howard Dean are beginning to understand what it's about and are beginning to call for it's repeal.Quote:
The plan to let them old geezers just die got voted down
One by one ,Obamacare is being delayed and opposed by more and more former supporters . But time isn't on our side ,because once the 1st part ,the entitements kick in ,then it will be as difficult to end as those other Federal entitlement frauds.
Yeah... we all know how frequently the Federal Government have demonstrated their ability to not only be profitible... but to set the standard of efficiency the private sector aspires to match.
(sarcasm font engaged)
Like Social Security, and Medicare? Even the TParty loves them, and they have said hands off. And they are old geezers too.Quote:
Originally Posted by tomder55
And don't take supporters who like what they have and wanting to keep it as supporting your repeal efforts. Having issues and questions is what it's about, destroying it is exclusive right wing sour grapes.
Speaking of unions, in spite of some serious lobbying from the White House the AFL-CIO went on record with a vote on a resolution critical of Obamacare.
Seems we aren't the only ones not happy with Zero care. The emperor is not having a good week... serves him right. The rest of us who warned you about him? Not so much. Thanks for foistng this nightmare on us.Quote:
AFL-CIO resolution criticizes Obamacare, seeks major changes | Mobile Washington Examiner
Delegates to the AFL-CIO convention in Los Angeles approved a resolution Wednesday calling for major changes to the Affordable Care Act, also known as Obamacare.
The resolution passed by voice vote despite furious lobbying from White House officials calling on Big Labor leaders to table the resolution.
The resolution states: "The ACA should be administered in a manner that preserves the high-quality health coverage multi-employer plans have provided to union families for decades and, if this is not possible, we will demand the ACA be amended by Congress."
Has the duck hunting season opened over there already, are lame ducks easier to hit?Quote:
Originally Posted by speechlesstx
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