712 t0 626 0ut of 1550 is a pretty close vote. See you at the next one.
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712 t0 626 0ut of 1550 is a pretty close vote. See you at the next one.
I think what it is in this situation is that the people smartened up for the vote. The UAW is the largest share holder in GM. Is this really the union you would want to represent your interests when what you do directly hurts what they take ownership in?
There are plenty of unions out there and plenty of reasons to join a good union. The problem here is that VW seems to be already taking care of their people.
Not close enough. That makes how many unionized auto plants in the south now, while Detroit is still a festering boil?
http://www.nytimes.com/2014/01/29/bu...ssee.html?_r=0
Matter of time before southerners wake up and get their own interests together. They may have lost by 80 votes this year, but no doubt there will be a second vote. And of course I took the liberty of finding my own liberal news post on this,Quote:
The business community reacted with further dismay when several Volkswagen officials from Germany visited the plant and hinted that it would be good to have a labor union because that would help establish a German-style works council. Such councils, comprising managers and representatives of white-collar and blue-collar workers, seek to foster collaboration within a factory as they forge policies on plant rules, work hours, vacations and other matters.
Disgusting! GOP Tries to Bully American Workers Seeking Union at Tennessee Volkswagen Plant | Alternet
Quote:
Usually, it’s the company management you have to worry about when you’re trying to form a union. But this time, the automaker is not opposing the vote, and in fact, the company has stated it does not want anyone interfering with its employees’ legal right to choose a union if that’s what they want. Republicans, on the other hand, are anything but neutral, and have come out as the strong-arm champions.
Corporate America likes to do business union-free, and Tennessee Republicans have warned that business flight and economic Armageddon will result if workers dare to organize. Senator Bob Corker (R-Tenn) came out with an explosive statement on Wednesday, saying that he had been “assured” that if the plant workers end up rejecting UAW representation, the company would reward the plant with a new product to build, an SUV.
I know Repubs hate bargaining, cooperating, and most who agree with them have NEVER worked in a union shop, and they benefits anyway. Talking about YOU Speech. Taking free stuff that others worked for!!Quote:
Elsewhere in the world, Volkswagen plants have a German-style works council, in which members elected by employees are able to make key decisions about the facility's operations. If the Chattanooga workers decide on a union, VW would institute a works council and the UAW would bargain over wages and benefits.
Having a union makes a difference: Workers at the VW plant make roughly $19 an hour, while $26 to $28 an hour is the norm for experienced hourly workers in Detroit. Unions are also good for the overall economy; when workers have purchasing power and can buy the goods and services they need, that helps keep the economy chugging along.
Unions paved the way for the middle class in America. With their anti-union frenzy, Republicans are sending a strong signal that they don't care about the middle class, or giving ordinary people a chance to share in the prosperity they help create.
no there won't be another vote....and if there is the gap will widen. More likey is that the emperor will have his poodles at the NLRB declare the vote invalid because that idiot Sen Corker opened his pie hole. The UAW spent a lot of resources trying to unionize this plant. Not only that ;but the emperor added his 2 cents worth of persuasion. They have yet to unionize a foreign-owned auto plant setting up shop in the South . VW may have been touting a pro-union line to appease their workers in Germany . Every other foreign-owned auto maker has threatened to shut down their plants if they became unionized. Not that it matters . The workers in the plants are the best paid workers in the area.
Meanwhile the boom in American auto manufacturing is found in Mexico . With Mexican auto manufacturing boom, new worries - The Washington Post good thing we bailed out GM !!!
Yes Tom you must get used to the new paradigm where traditional industries bleed slowly to death while multinationals pursue the profit motive
you are living in the past . What do you think should be done ? nationalize the industry ?
Get the board of directors to share the wealth and profits and don't be so damn greedy and states should stop subsidizing the greedy b@stards. If they can't make a profit without gouging the profit makers then let 'em go to where ever.
And show me a link where those VW/Tenn. Automakers make as much as the union UAW shops. You sound like Speech, taking the benefits of union gains, without paying union dues. And yes there will be a push in a year for another vote. Unfortunately no one even brought out the fact that workers at VW/Tenn. Would have the individual option of being union or not had the won the vote. Now they all have no choice.
I hope they do sue the elected officials who used the intimidation and scare tactics to keep them the ONLY VW factory in the world without a Work Council.
If I had made such a statement I would provide a link. But I didn't . What I did say is that the non-union workers at the foreign automaker's plants are making the highest wages in the area.Quote:
And show me a link where those VW/Tenn. Automakers make as much as the union UAW shops.
Corker is an idiot .I stick with my position that VW was appeasing their own domestic workforce by supporting unionization of the American plant. The only way there will be a new vote is if the stooges of the emperor at the NLRB invalidate the vote. Look ;the UAW threw their whole weight behind the unionization vote. I worked in a plant where similar pressures were applied to the workforce and it was hell on earth. Before I even entered the plant I was confronted by union thugs ,and the same thing happened at the end of the shift . Cars were vandalized and fights broke out . F the unions !!!!Quote:
I hope they do sue the elected officials who used the intimidation and scare tactics to keep them the ONLY VW factory in the world without a Work Council
Well where's the link to prove that?
Volkswagen Chattanooga Assembly Plant - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Quote:
Labor costs at the Tennessee plant, including wages and benefits, have been estimated to average $27 an hour, below those of Ford, GM, Chrysler, and other foreign automakers
$27 an hour . You make it sound like it's sh+t wages . That's a base pay of $56,160 . Probably not a bad deal for a Ten. factory worker . Certainly the workers thought they were fairly paid . From the Slimes :http://www.nytimes.com/2014/02/16/bu...oubt.html?_r=0 But screw the workers right ? Why should they have a choice ?Quote:
One reason the U.A.W. lost was that many VW workers said they already felt that they were paid well and treated well, leading them to question why they needed a union and to pay union dues.
That's wages AND BENEFITS! You need to reread my links because even if a union was voted in, the workers still had a choice to pay dues, OR NOT.
Looks like they make close to the same money according to the article you posted.
One reason the U.A.W. lost was that many VW workers said they already felt that they were paid well and treated well, leading them to question why they needed a union and to pay union dues. The VW workers average about $19.50 an hour, about the same as the newer workers in the Detroit automakers’ lower tier, but about $9 an hour less than workers in Detroit’s upper tier. The VW workers earn several dollars less an hour than employees at most other transplants.
They started a 2 teir system in Detroit and the new employees make much less then those that have been there for a longer time. So when you start spouting off about wages you need to look at what is real vs what is the media's perspective.
Tom
"Corker is an idiot"
Tom,that pretty much goes without saying. It is a case of ideology leading to one cutting off one's nose to spite one's face.
I don't think the desire of VW to agree to an organized labor union has anything to to do with appeasement. It seems as though it is a necessary requirement under the National Labor Relations Act.
VW probably see itself as being better off under the Act if it does implement a German style employee involvement.
Just having a quick look at the Act and NLRB v Electromation, Inc suggests to me workers could wield more power if they were not a member of organized labor.
Obviously I am not a lawyer, but I could get a legal opinion. The only problem is that all such persons I know are pro-union. Including myself of course.
Also I would be very surprised if VW haven't done their homework in this area
Cdad, all due respect I am a union member, so my spouting is first hand not something I read. Simple fact that's disregarded is UAW is working WITH management to structure labor relations between workers, and management to the betterment of both.
The two tiered wage scale for new employees was a union concession YEARS ago. Maybe you should check your own media sources.
If Tennessee workers are happy, so am I. I support their right to decide their own future, and the direction it takes.
not true ... that is why the rank and file got a vote on it. Tennessee is a right to work state . Right-to-work law - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia That means the employees have the choice to unionize ...or not . Trust me . None of the foreign-owned auto companies that have opened plants in the South favor a unionized shop. Most have threatened to close the shop if the employees unionize. Corker is an idiot because he risked a tampering charge by the NLRB when he made the claim that VW would open another production line in the plant if the employees voted against unionizing . Even if they implied that ,he should've kept it to himself .Quote:
. It seems as though it is a necessary requirement under the National Labor Relations Act.
We agree Tom, the lawmakers could have trusted workers to decide their own fates and kept their mouth shut. I would raise a stink just to show those loudmouths to shut up and stay out of the way of business doing what they do best for themselves. They probably won't, not in court any way.
Tom, we might be talking about two different things here.
My understanding was that Employee involvement initiated by the company was illegal as it constitutes employer dominated labor. As per "Electromantion V NLRB"
I was suggesting that it might be legal for organized labor to participate in such a scheme. I guess it all depends on the definition of "organized labor".
It's a different situation. In that case ,the non-union company ,in good faith ,tried to address employee concerns by helping organize 'employee involvement 'committees to come up with suggestions and solutions to disputes between the employees and management regarding with "terms or conditions of employment." . That concept didn't sit well with the unions. They considered that an "unfair labor practice" and obviously undermining their role in labor negotiations . In reality the unions beef was that employees could organize with management assistance to resolve disputes. Unions have actively fought back against any such solutions . Electromantion was ordered to disband 5 EI committees . Organized labor's position obviously is that unless the employees are organized under a labor union ,that they should have no say in collectively negotiating their employment terms. It doesn't surprise me at all that unions would take such a position. Their game is power 1st above employee rights. EI's could possibly lead to a content work force without union involvement . That can't be allowed to happen.
Management organized teams were nothing but extensions of management. Workers wanted who they wanted on the team, and not just a company parrot. Its not a power grab so much as a voice with teeth. That's why they were outlawed back in the day. In theory Work councils are but a renaming of unions, the process and the procedures to air and resolve work related conflicts is very similar in both cases, and cooperation is the goal.
Makes no sense to have a company weighed body representing the workers interests and concerns.
outlawed ? EI programs are a regularly employed by many businesses .
Tom, I think they call those HR departments.
Wonder whose interest the EI/HR looks out for? Is that a conflict of interest? That's why workers organized in the first place, and why they will again. Took years before, and probably will be a lengthy struggle again. Blue collar workers, are the backbone of this nation and a shrinking middle class is part of the economic problem.
Human Resources may help organize them but they are management and the workforce coming to agreements on terms of employment . http://smallbusiness.chron.com/examp...m s-10647.html http://www.dol.gov/_sec/media/report...p/section2.htm Employee participation Developing people business studies and business english | The Times 100
I realize that's the theory Tom, but in practical application it's an individual employee making his case against a management appointed team even when the HR department is outsourced to private entity. They are still under control/influence of the company interest and the employee is left to his own device.
Don't get me wrong some companies are more fair than others, but few workplace rules are ever changed to accommodate a group of employees even when some individuals may be. And let's be very clear about the type of work being done as office environments and duties are very different from factory floors. Think gender as a major difference, in both culture and job description.
We have more than enough government agencies to regulate the workplace and lotd of women work on factory floors. Shame the White House doesn't pay women equally like factories do.
Now Obama is lying about the drought in the Central California Valley, which I've posted on numerous times. The emperor says it's climate change, he LIES.
This is bullsh*t, and Dems only want to give us more of it. Instead of a flourishing agriculture industry in California they'd rather YOU pay more for your avocados and oranges, or just import them from Mexico or God knows where or how they were grown - while telling us to eat more fruits and vegetables. All the while padding the pockets of their environmental cronies. Enough already.Quote:
California's Drought Isn't Due To Global Warming, But Politics - Investors.com
Water Wars: President Obama visited California's drought-hit Central Valley Friday, offering handouts and blaming global warming. But the state's water shortage is due to the left's refusal to deal with the state's water needs.
Following legislative action last month by Speaker John Boehner and California's Central Valley Representatives David Valadao, Devin Nunes and Kevin McCarthy, whose Sacramento-San Joaquin Valley Emergency Water Delivery Act was designed to resolve the long-standing problem of environmental water cutbacks that have devastated America's richest farmland, Obama is grandstanding in California, too.
His aim, however, is not a long-term solution for California's now-constant water shortages that have hit its $45 billion agricultural industry, but to preach about global warming. Instead of blaming the man-made political causes of California's worst water shortage, he's come with $2 billion in "relief" that's nothing but a tired effort to divert attention from fellow Democrats' dereliction of duty in using the state's water infrastructure.
The one thing that will mitigate droughts in California — a permanent feature of the state — is to restore the water flow from California's water-heavy north to farmers in the central and south. That's just what House Bill 3964, which passed by a 229-191 vote last week, does.
But Obama's plan is not to get that worthy bill through the Senate (where Democrats are holding it up) but to shovel pork to environmental activists and their victims, insultingly offering out-of-work farmers a "summer meal plan" in his package.
"We are not interested in welfare; we want water," Nunes told IBD this week. He and his fellow legislator Valadao are both farmers who represent the worst-hit regions of the Central Valley in Congress and can only look at the president's approach with disbelief.
"He's not addressing the situation," Valadao told us.
"They want to blame the drought for the lack of water, but they wasted water for the past five years," said Nunes.
The two explain that California's system of aqueducts and storage tanks was designed long ago to take advantage of rain and mountain runoff from wet years and store it for use in dry years. But it's now inactive — by design. "California's forefathers built a system (of aqueducts and storage facilities) designed to withstand five years of drought," said Nunes.
"We have infrastructure dating from the 1960s for transporting water, but by the 1990s the policies had changed," said Valadao.
Environmental special interests managed to dismantle the system by diverting water meant for farms to pet projects, such as saving delta smelt, a baitfish. That move forced the flushing of 3 million acre-feet of water originally slated for the Central Valley into the ocean
Oh, and did you notice that while president climate change was lying about the unnecessary man-made drought in the Central California Valley that he golfed at some pretty exclusive water-guzzling golf courses while hanging with his rich buddies? Nah, you didn't.
we have that nonsense all the time here in the summer . Water restrictions while water from our county is piped into the rich Democrat counties in Northern NJ for their golf courses.
Democrat-only golf courses? Can you back that up?Quote:
for their golf courses.
don't have to because I never claimed they are Democrat only golf courses . I said rich Democrat counties in Northern NJ .
"for their golf courses."Quote:
I said rich Democrat counties in Northern NJ
yes for the county golf courses ....any other nitpicking ?
Do republicans play at those golf courses?
I'm sure they pay green fees and play too. any other irrelevent points ?
So it's not a partisan thing then, everyone benefits.
If a republican were at the helm would the water stop being pumped to the golf courses?
Your question is irrelevant. Republicans aren't running around the country whining about the rich while hanging out with them. Republicans aren't running around the country pretending they care about a drought while playing golf on courses that suck up 17% of the area's water. If they were, you can feel free to call them hypocrites, too.
No it isn't, you are simply troubled what the answer would show so you skirt the issue entirely. I'm not talking about sweeping generalities of each party, I'm discussing this specific issue; can you do that too?Quote:
Your question is irrelevant.
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