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Same here. But the right-wing rhetoric is based on fear. Their threads here are perfect evidence of that.Quote:
you live in a society that is full of fear, thus your present dilemna. Our society operates on a different dynamic. Trust didn't come easy, but we do know you have nothing to fear but fear itself.
Yes their sky is always falling, the rich never have enough and will never share
Something about the government targeting political opposition with tax audits and delays in approvals because of their political views that lends to this lack of trust . Maybe in your countries those type of tactics are SOP and a given. But, in a free nation that should be an unacceptable outrage.
I think that if it weren't for the obviouse leanings of our current press it wouldn't be an issue. Before when I was growing up the press had a great amount of respect and was considered nuetral. Fast forward to today's times and it seems that the press is little more then a puppet of only one side of the political machine. The feeling at least as far as I have been seeing is that we have lost our control over the checks and balances that have made this system work.Quote:
Originally Posted by paraclete
Within that loss is the brewing of a great mistrust by those that are willing to participate in a governmental process. Also there is a great divide between those trying to participate and those that are just being sheeple and following party lines without any independent thinking. That is where the sinking ship feeling is being derived from.
There is a reason you guys hate the lame stream media. They report the crazy positions and the crazy things you say. Go ahead keep throwing the red meat around, but don't be surprised when a hungry bear gets a whiff of it. When you don't push back on the lunacy you get more lunatics, and when you purge your own party of anyone that ain't crazy, you get more press on the lunatics that you push to the front of the crowd.
Blame the media, it hasn't changed, YOU have. You have created a climate of fear within your own party. You outlaw debate and compromise and replace it with hollering, and rock throwing and hell bent on destroying anything you don't approve of, even your own.
And if you think this is mainstream America, you're crazy.
Hello again, tom:
In a FREE nation, one MAKING such complaints ought be able to PROVE them, instead of just flapping their gums. Alas and alack, that's ALL we have here.Quote:
.. in a free nation that should be an unacceptable outrage.
Excon
Did you have your coffee this morning? If you can't see the problem then maybe your just part of it? If the media was so impartial then wouldn't they have followed through on any number of scandals that have been in the forefront of this administration? Had a republican been in office rest assured that their treatment of the scandal would have been a vile one. But with this administration its swept under the rug time and time again.Quote:
Originally Posted by talaniman
The problem with your form of compromise is that it hurts the very people you claim to be helping. Why should anyone compromise on that?
Hello again, dad:
OR, in the alternative, they DID investigate, and found NO scandal at all.Quote:
If the media was so impartial then wouldn't they have followed through on any number of scandals that have been in the forefront of this administration?
I believe I've mentioned on these pages exactly WHAT Daryl Issa COULD do, IF he really wanted to INVESTIGATE.. IF the matter IS serious, (and I believe using the IRS to target your political enemy IS serious), then there are PLENTY of tools available to the congress. It HAS oversight, and it has the POWER to use it - IF they wanted to. Our founders did NOT leave the congress TOOTHLESS.
I KNOW why they don't. The MEDIA knows why they don't. You should too.
Excon
What wing rhetoric is based on fear? I don't recall righties warning Romney was going to take your tampons away.
Romney lost by 5 million fraudulent votes. AFTER you kicked a few million off the voter rolls. You guys FAILED again, and still blamed US.
...Quote:
You outlaw debate and compromise and replace it with hollering, and rock throwing and hell bent on destroying anything you don't approve of, even your own.
Speaking of the emperor...
Fear works against freedom. When you spend so much time being fearful then the inevitable consequence is that you impose limitations on that freedom.Quote:
Originally Posted by tomder55
It works that way in religion too. That's when fences are built.Quote:
Originally Posted by Tuttyd
Exactly.Quote:
Originally Posted by Wondergirl
Very perceptive.
What a bunch of BS . For 8 years I heard stories of Bush setting up FEMA concentration camps . Was that "fear " justified ? Here we have documented cases of the IRS auditing political opponents and denying applications of political opponents and I'll say it again... it's an outrage!
I lived for years inside those fences.Quote:
Originally Posted by Tuttyd
Quote:
Originally Posted by tomder55
I am not saying that fear isn't justified and I am not saying that outrage isn't justified under the circumstance. My statement was in relation to the fear factor, nothing else. What I said was:
Fear works against freedom. When you spend so much time being fearful the inevitable consequence is that you impose limitations on that freedom.
On this basis, how is my comment B.S. Your point about the circumstances being played out is irrelevant to the point I am making. Care to refute this?
So you made a statement out of context to the discussion then ?
I understand what the OP has posted. However, you responded to accusations by a number of people who pointed out that fear and distrust is an issue in the debate. Nowhere that I can see in these responses do these people say that fear and distrust is not justified. I was responding to these comments by linking them to your comments about freedom.Quote:
Originally Posted by tomder55
I hope this clear it up.
Only by implication is it linked... they would not have made those comments except to respond to my complaint about the IRS ;and they reduced it to a "sky is falling" charge without any merit . We are told by the adm and their flunky praetorian press that 'there's nothing there ' .So I understand their strategy of marginalizing legitimate issues when their emperor is involved . But know I see through it.
Hello again, tom:
The problem with Ted Cruz and the right wing press, is they really DON'T believe the crap they spew. They just hope YOU do - and YOU do.Quote:
But know I see through it.
Certainly, if the leadership of the Republican party agreed with you, they'd use ALL the tools available to them, and actually GET to the bottom of it.. But, they, like me, KNOW there's no there there, and a REAL investigation would REVEAL that... Instead, they try to make as much political hay as they can.
I'm surprised you buy into it. You don't really think congress is TOOTHLESS, do you? Tell me, am I wrong about issuing subpoenas?? Am I wrong about giving Lois Lerner use immunity, so she can TELL what she knows?? Am I wrong about JAILING her if she doesn't comply??
You say, that would start a Constitutional crisis... So.. Isn't USING the IRS for political purposes ALREADY a Constitutional crisis??
Excon
Congress is not toothless but it is not the executive branch either . To get to the bottom of it requires either executive cooperation or a court intevention . You know it and I know it .Quote:
Originally Posted by excon
Even with Congress being held over-whelming by the Dems ,it took well over a year to conclude Watergate... and even then it only happened when the Repubics in Congress walked into the White House and told Nixon that they could no longer support him . You know and I know that never has an impeachment resulted in a conviction by the Senate .
So don't tell me about Congressional power . They have oversight and the power of the purse ,that's it.
Quote:
Originally Posted by tomder55
Tom, think about the logical implications of what you have said. Here is your quote again in part:
"Maybe in your countries these type of tactic are SOP and a given.But, in a free nation that should be an unacceptable outrage"
Apparently in your country these tactics are SOP as well .The implication is that "other" countries are not free nations because of these tactics. Therefore...
I'll let you fill out the rest
Duh . Yes if the ruling party can use the force of the law and the agencies of the government for political purposes ,then there is no real liberty.
Hello again, tom:
It's TRUE! I don't want a corrupt government.. But PROOF is required before TRUTH can be determined.. One side flapping their gums, is NOT truth.Quote:
duh . Yes if the ruling party can use the force of the law and the agencies of the government for political purposes ,then there is no real liberty.
Excon
Finally we got excon to admit that Obamas side has been doing nothing but lying to the American public.Quote:
Originally Posted by excon
That's the problem with hollering about everything, and no solid proof of anything. Nobody believes you.
Funny how that doesn't stop your side from hollering about everything still, though.
Hope you are standing in front of a Mirror when you say that... because it applies to you and your side too.Quote:
Originally Posted by talaniman
One name refutes all your arguments... Lois Lerner . Remember ,the Dems had nothing on Nixon until John Dean started "flapping his gums" ,and the court ordered him to release his tapes. But I'm willing to bet that didn't stop you from making the accusations before the smoking gun proof.Quote:
Originally Posted by excon
Well if you think that Lois Lerner is John Dean, make her talk. I would if I were Issa.
Really ? How would you do that when she pleas the 5th ? Don't tell me immunity.. that won't compel her to talk. John Dean turned out to be a lefty who was more than willing to talk.
Hello again, tom:
Uhhh, YES it will. She talks, or goes to jail. You shouldn't get your law from FOX News.Quote:
Don't tell me immunity.. that won't compel her to talk
Excon
Until Issa figures it out, you got nothing. Guess she ain't a righty willing to talk. Guess you guys can't prove she knows anything to talk about. If you did she would be indicted already before a grand jury.
Like Ex says, you guys got nuthin'. Now what? More hollering, more scandals?
Really... I guess if you go before Congress your 5th amendment rights are waived against your will. I can't imagine what news agency you got that from.
And which Federal prosecutor working for Holder will do the indictment ?Quote:
Originally Posted by talaniman
Hello again, tom:
In a sense, yes.Quote:
I guess if you go before Congress your 5th amendment rights are waived against your will.
The reason WHY we have 5th Amendment rights in the first place, is so you can't be compelled to INCRIMINATE yourself.. But, if you've been promised that you WON'T be prosecuted for ANYTHING you say, NOTHING she could say WOULD incriminate her.
It's ELEMENTAL law. As a tool, it's been around for a LONG, LONG time. Hannity doesn't know that stuff. I do.
Excon
You have to have evidence first. Got any? Naw, you don't, just partisan suspicions and accusations.Quote:
Originally Posted by tomder55
I have video evidence .Quote:
Originally Posted by talaniman
Lois Lerner Discusses Political Pressure on IRS in 2010 - YouTube
Very good. So its potential is universal. On this basis we can amend your original statement from "maybe in your countries" to "in all countries".Quote:
Originally Posted by tomder55
I'm speechless.
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