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-   -   Gun Control... it didn't take long (https://www.askmehelpdesk.com/showthread.php?t=715117)

  • Apr 15, 2013, 04:33 AM
    speechlesstx
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by excon View Post
    Hello again, Steve

    Do you question how passionately we went after Tim McVeigh?? What makes YOU think YOUR rebellion is going to any more popular than HIS was???

    excon

    First of all I'm not McVeigh, I'm not cult in Waco and I'm not plannng any rebellion. But for you to think we're too stupid to come up with a viable plan that includes a large segment of our military is what's ridiculous. This isn't Syria, and I'm quite certain more of our military sympathizes with us than say, president zero. We defeated the British military, Israel kicked eveyone's a$$, you obviously underestimate the underdog.

    What's disturbing is your apparent ease with the thought of our government suppressing us to the point of rebellion, in which case I would have hoped you would be on the side of freedom. Sounds like you're OK with us ceding our freedom without a fight.
  • Apr 15, 2013, 04:48 AM
    excon
    Hello again, Steve:

    Quote:

    Sounds like you're OK with us ceding our freedom without a fight.
    See, here's where it goes off the rails.. To ME, going through a background check before you can buy a gun, is NOT CEDING any right that I can find. It's NOT even close.. And, I KNOW the Constitution pretty good.

    Now, ordering the NSA to READ your email and LISTEN to your phone calls is CEDING a right. YOUR man did that. I didn't hear ANYTHING from you then.

    Look. I'm ready for Civil War part Deux. Maybe after you're defeated a second time, we can move forward.

    Excon
  • Apr 15, 2013, 05:19 AM
    paraclete
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by excon View Post
    Hell
    On the other hand, maybe we need to see one side WHIPPED up on real good before we can get something done... I'm ready to go.

    excon

    Ex you are surely not serious, political debate is one thing, revolution another.

    Look, I agree change is needed, you can't have a country that is ungovernable because one side rejects what the ballot box tells them, even if it sends conflicting signals. If that happens it means the system is flawed and needs to be corrected, and that needs to be made a priority.

    I'm not talking out of the side of my mouth here, the problems you face have been seen before and it takes real courage to tackle them
  • Apr 15, 2013, 05:34 AM
    speechlesstx
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by excon View Post
    Hello again, Steve:

    See, here's where it goes off the rails.. To ME, going through a background check before you can buy a gun, is NOT CEDING any right that I can find. It's NOT even close.. And, I KNOW the Constitution pretty good.

    Now, ordering the NSA to READ your email and LISTEN to your phone calls is CEDING a right. YOUR man did that. I didn't hear ANYTHING from you then.

    Look. I'm ready for Civil War part Deux. Maybe after you're defeated a second time, we can move forward.

    excon

    We already have background checks, but even expanding them is NOT where your side wants to stop. Interesting also that you defend the constitution and freedom in one breath and endorse a war to put us in our place the next.
  • Apr 15, 2013, 05:45 AM
    tomder55
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by paraclete View Post
    Ex you are surely not serious, political debate is one thing, revolution another.

    look, I agree change is needed, you can't have a country that is ungovernable because one side rejects what the ballot box tells them, even if it sends conflicting signals. If that happens it means the system is flawed and needs to be corrected, and that needs to be made a priority.

    I'm not talking out of the side of my mouth here, the problems you face have been seen before and it takes real courage to tackle them

    Yup ,you already said we need Napoleonic dictatorship .
    Tocqueville argued that democracy was capable of breeding its own form of despotism, albeit of the "soft" variety.. . "an immense protective power" that took all responsibility for everyone's happiness. The trade off was that this power remained "sole agent and judge of it." This power would "resemble parental authority" and would try to keep people "in perpetual childhood" by protecting them "from all the trouble of thinking and all the cares of living."

    You ask why this country continues it's moral decline. It's because we have been seduced by the attraction of the nanny-state .
  • Apr 15, 2013, 05:49 AM
    excon
    Hello again, Steve:

    Quote:

    but even expanding them is NOT where your side wants to stop.
    Couple things. Fighting a rebellion IS in the cause of freedom. Secondarily, if you're going to feel PUT in your place, then don't start something.. Cause if you do, you WILL be put in your place.

    Finally, if WANTING to pass serious gun reform is TYRANNY, let me get off this wacko train right now...

    Excon
  • Apr 15, 2013, 05:55 AM
    paraclete
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by tomder55 View Post
    You ask why this country continues it's moral decline. It's because we have been seduced by the attraction of the nanny-state .

    You would like to think so but in fact it has been suduced by something else. That is; materialism, the now society. This is the ever present danger of a secular society and your nation was first in line, so first in decline
  • Apr 15, 2013, 06:06 AM
    excon
    Hello clete:

    Quote:

    This is the ever present danger of a secular society and your nation was first in line, so first in decline
    If it's decline to EXPAND freedom to those who've been denied it, sign me up for MORE of that.

    Excon
  • Apr 15, 2013, 06:13 AM
    talaniman
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by tomder55 View Post
    You ask why this country continues it's moral decline. It's because we have been seduced by the attraction of the nanny-state .
    I think just the opposite. The country is evolving and more people are being included and joining in the process of building a better union. Nanny state is just a made up catch phrase to deflect attention from that giant sucking sound and blame poor people for being poor.

    Now grab your guns and defend the rich guys rights to be rich. What's in YOUR wallet?
  • Apr 15, 2013, 06:16 AM
    speechlesstx
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by excon View Post
    Hello again, Steve:



    Couple things. Fighting a rebellion IS in the cause of freedom. Secondarily, if you're gonna feel PUT in your place, then don't start something.. Cause if you do, you WILL be put in your place.

    Finally, if WANTING to pass serious gun reform is TYRANNY, let me get off this wacko train right now...

    excon

    Define "serious gun reform." Our side is pretty simple, the constitution guarantees our right to keep and bear arms, your side is all over the map on "serious gun reform."
  • Apr 15, 2013, 06:32 AM
    excon
    Hello again, Steve:

    Quote:

    Define "serious gun reform."
    Nahhh.. I'll define the OTHER word I used in that sentence, and that's WANT.

    People in hell WANT icewater.. It's a deflection, or a straw man, or a red herring, or just plain nonsensical to say we can't pass a universal background check because the libs WANT more.

    In simple English, can you tell me how a universal background check INFRINGES on your right to own a gun??

    Please, do NOT tell me about the things NOBODY is proposing as a reason to oppose the stuff somebody actually IS proposing...

    Can you do that? Bet not.

    Excon
  • Apr 15, 2013, 06:37 AM
    talaniman
    You got guns, and are paranoid!! You can still buy guns, yet are paranoid!! That's all you can talk about, your right to be paranoid!!

    Maybe a gun isn't what you need. Sure doesn't make you feel better or less paranoid. Just saying.
  • Apr 15, 2013, 07:20 AM
    speechlesstx
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by excon View Post
    Hello again, Steve:

    Nahhh.. I'll define the OTHER word I used in that sentence, and that's WANT.

    People in hell WANT icewater.. It's a deflection, or a straw man, or a red herring, or just plain nonsensical to say we can't pass a universal background check because the libs WANT more.

    In simple English, can you tell me how a universal background check INFRINGES on your right to own a gun???

    Please, do NOT tell me about the things NOBODY is proposing as a reason to oppose the stuff somebody actually IS proposing...

    Can you do that? Bet not.

    excon

    Dude, how are you going to enforce "universal" background checks? That's the kind of thing Schmucky's bill did which would make me a felon for taking a vacation with someone house sitting while my guns were there.

    Last week I told you about a guy who got his guns confiscated in NY because he allegedly had taken anti-anxiety medication once which is a violation of their hastily passed gun control. According to his lawyer that was no "clerical error," NY state police are allegedly scouring people's medical records for just such things.

    You told us to trust you with health care and that ain't working out at all like you said, so sorry, I don't trust you with my second amendment rights. Get over it.
  • Apr 15, 2013, 07:24 AM
    tomder55
    They will never admit that the real goal of universal backround checks is a national registry .
  • Apr 15, 2013, 07:38 AM
    excon
    Hello tom:

    Quote:

    they will never admit that the real goal of universal backround checks is a national registry
    Just like you'll never admit that your goal is the reversal of Roe v. Wade and the criminalization of contraceptives.

    Excon
  • Apr 15, 2013, 07:46 AM
    speechlesstx
    I have never heard anyone mention the criminalization of contraceptives but you, I'm not Muslim.
  • Apr 15, 2013, 08:07 AM
    tomder55
    Of course I'll admit to having a goal of reversing Roe. I think it is unconstitutional and the codification of legal murder. Hope I made that plain enough.
    Now why not admit that the only possible outcome of universal backround checks is a national registry of guns.
  • Apr 15, 2013, 01:23 PM
    speechlesstx
    2 killed as 2 bombs explode at Boston Marathon
  • Apr 15, 2013, 01:28 PM
    cdad
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by talaniman View Post
    You got guns, and are paranoid!!! You can still buy guns, yet are paranoid!!!!!!!!! That's all you can talk about, your right to be paranoid!!!

    Maybe a gun isn't what you need. Sure doesn't make you feel better or less paranoid. Just saying.

    We have already seen it in the news and it has been posted on this thread. How a State tried to take away someone's guns for taking a certain medication. If a national registration were to go through then this condition will be nationwide.

    Big Brother: Obamacare Looks to Collect Private Medical Info - Peter Roff (usnews.com)

    One proposed departmental rule deals with what may become a centralized database containing patient medical records and pharmaceutical claim information.
  • Apr 15, 2013, 01:28 PM
    excon
    Hello again, Steve:

    I sure don't know why bombs are outlawed. That's a HUGE encroachment on my second Amendment rights.

    excon
  • Apr 15, 2013, 01:30 PM
    cdad
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by excon View Post
    Hello again, Steve:

    I sure don't know why bombs are outlawed. That's a HUGE encroachment on my second Amendment rights.

    excon

    Actually they are not outlawed. They are regulated heavily by the ATF.
  • Apr 15, 2013, 01:47 PM
    tomder55
    Just heard Wolf Blitzer say it could be tea party or some anti-tax group.
  • Apr 15, 2013, 02:17 PM
    speechlesstx
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by tomder55 View Post
    just heard Wolf Blitzer say it could be tea party or some anti-tax group.

    Liberal knees are apparently jerking all over. NY Post says they have a suspect and it's a Saudi national.
  • Apr 15, 2013, 02:58 PM
    paraclete
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by excon View Post
    Hello again, Steve:

    I sure don't know why bombs are outlawed. That's a HUGE encroachment on my second Amendment rights.

    excon

    Are you a goul, Where is your concern for the maimed and injured? If this is where your rights lead, then you have some serious thinking to do. But no guns involved, there are more effective means of mass murder and terrorism and no guns can prevent it
  • Apr 15, 2013, 03:25 PM
    cdad
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by tomder55 View Post
    just heard Wolf Blitzer say it could be tea party or some anti-tax group.

    Is that as bad as Bill Maher ?

    Bill Maher: Second Amendment Is BS! BLASTS Liberals For Being Scared - YouTube




    2nd amendment is BS ?
  • Apr 15, 2013, 03:28 PM
    paraclete
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by cdad View Post
    Is that as bad as Bill Maher ?

    Bill Maher: Second Amendment Is BS! BLASTS Liberals For Being Scared - YouTube

    2nd amendment is BS ?

    In the context of recent events it just might be, Stockton made the same point in this that I do: this is eighteenth century thinking and is out of date and out of context in relation to the world today. I am pleased there are some right wing americans who see it
  • Apr 15, 2013, 03:35 PM
    tomder55
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by speechlesstx View Post
    Liberal knees are apparently jerking all over. NY Post says they have a suspect and it's a Saudi national.

    So out of desperation ,I switched to FOX... and there was Shep Smith referencing Waco and Oklahoma City .
    My observation; the bombs went off ;and the next image was 1st responders ,Police , Emergency medical personnel etc .running towards the danger .
  • Apr 15, 2013, 03:38 PM
    speechlesstx
    Nicholas Kristof blamed Republicans.

    Boston Marathon Explosion | Bombing | Nicholas Kristof | Mediaite

    Pathetic dolt...
  • Apr 15, 2013, 03:39 PM
    paraclete
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by tomder55 View Post
    so out of desperation ,I switched to FOX...and there was Shep Smith referencing Waco and Oklahoma City .
    My observation; the bombs went off ;and the next image was 1st responders ,Police , Emergency medical personnel etc .running towards the danger .

    And? Of course the images are going to be what's going on on the ground and it's not often you get actual footage of the explosion but even at this distance it had emotional impact
  • Apr 15, 2013, 03:48 PM
    tomder55
    Quote:

    and?
    It represents the best instincts of the retards that report the news to us
    Quote:

    of course the images are going to be what's going on on the ground and it's not often you get actual footage of the explosion but even at this distance it had emotional impact
    Yes the images are horrible... perhaps that is why I search for the heroism... the acts of goodness.
  • Apr 15, 2013, 04:13 PM
    paraclete
    Let's take an act of goodness take the bomber, tie him to a stick of gelignite and let him live out his life with what ever he has left. The goodness is that others will see the example and take warning
  • Apr 16, 2013, 09:31 AM
    tomder55
    Quote:

    So many of the runners continued to run across the finishing line and onwards to the Massachusetts General Hospital, in a rush to give blood, that they had to be turned away.

    "Due to the generosity of our donors we don't need blood at this time," wrote the Red Cross for Eastern Massachusetts on Twitter.
    But the volunteers kept on coming, leading the organisation to tweet an hour later: "We do *NOT* need blood at this time. Please schedule a future donation."

    So great was the wish to help that the Red Cross was forced to set up a diary to arrange appointments for all those queuing up to give blood.

    Others provided more immediate assistance. One man was caught on camera rushing straight to site where the bomb had detonated, where bloodied people were lying dazed on the pavement. He ripped off his belt to make a tourniquet and stem the bleeding, before turning to assist other seriously-injured victims.

    Luke Russert reported on Twitter that he watched as a white-shirted volunteer in his red official baseball cap wheeled a woman out of the danger zone before rushing immediately back to the scene.

    A retired American Football star, Joe Andruzzi, who won the Superbowl three times with the New England Patriots, carried victims away from the carnage (above). All three of his brothers were firemen in New York who responded to the September 11 attacks on the Twin Towers.

    His charity cancer foundation was hosting an event on Boylston Street – the same street where the explosions were detonated – and the 37-year-old immediately dashed to help.
    Other people opened their homes to those who were stranded, or offered lifts to people without transport. A Google document was set up with offers of help, such as: "Located across the street from Mass General Hospital. I have a couch and an inflatable twin mattress for anyone who needs to stay."

    Kristin Corona who lives in central Boston wrote: "I have a couch to offer and two beautiful chihuahuas to love you. My apartment is open to anyone in need."

    Restaurants in the area offered free meals and shelter to those caught up in the tragedy, allowing people to pay only if they were able to.

    "Open wifi, place to charge your phone, cold drinks, or just don't want to be alone," tweeted the owner of El Pelon, a Mexican restaurant in the area.

    "My coworkers and staff deserve a lot of credit: not one blinked when asked, not one when home when they could, those not working came in."
    Boston Marathon heroes: Kindness and humanity amid the carnage - Telegraph
  • Apr 16, 2013, 10:14 AM
    smoothy
    Barney Frank wasted no time politicizing the Boston Bombing... like a good democrat.

    http://www.theblaze.com/stories/2013...eal-with-this/


    So... when is the left going to push for a Ban on pressure cookers and their confication... and a retrocative registry for every ball bearing in a persons possession so they can track them in case any of them are ever used in a bomb?
  • Apr 16, 2013, 11:33 AM
    tomder55
    Figures . Now there will be alerts about cooking devices. Can the propane Bar B Q grill be far behind ?

    Quote:

    Authorities are now saying that the explosive devices in Boston were fashioned from pressure cookers. (Yes, like the closed pot you might use to cook rice at home.) As it happens, pressure cookers have a nefarious history in counterterrorism circles. In 2004, the Department of Homeland Security was concerned enough about pressure cooker bombs to issue an alert to federal and state security officials: “A technique commonly taught in Afghan terrorist training camps is the use/conversion of pressure cookers into IEDs,” the bulletin warned.
    That bulletin cited several plots from 2002 to 2004 to use pressure cooker bombs in France, India and Nepal. But more recently there have been at least three other instances of would-be terrorists in the west, all of them Islamic radicals, in possession of pressure cookers for reasons that seemed not to involve having friends over for dinner. One was an Army private linked to the 2010 Fort Hood shooter Nidal Hasan, who had reportedly been taking bomb-making tips from the al Qaeda's short-lived (literally) magazine Inspire and had various weapons and explosives along with his cooking pot. (The magazine reportedly recommended pressure cookers as explosive devices.) A 2010 suicide bomber in Stockholm had rigged a pressure cooker bomb that failed to detonate. And as a newer DHS warning about the kitchen devices noted, the failed 2010 SUV bomb in New York's Times Square was a pressure cooker device featuring 120 firecrackers. The same DHS memo refers to a March 2010 bombing with a pressure cooker at a western Christian aid agency in Pakistan that killed six people.
    Counterterror officials are surely well aware of these facts and studying any leads that might link the device in Boston to Islamic radicals here or abroad. But it's important to bear in mind that the ability to make these bombs is hardly unique to al Qaeda and its sympathizers. Details on how to make a pressure cooker bomb can also be found on websites associated with anarchy and other forms of non-religious radicalism, including this one which describes a bomb “affectionately known as a HELLHOUND.” The identity of the Boston bomber or bombers remains very much unclear, and it would be foolish to jump to conclusions. It would also be foolish to ignore the twisted recent history of the pressure cooker as a method for killing innocent people.
    A Short Recent History of Pressure Cooker Bombs | TIME.com

    They can pry my spatula from my cold dead fingers.
  • Apr 16, 2013, 12:19 PM
    Wondergirl
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by tomder55 View Post
    figures . now there will be alerts about cooking devices. Can the propane Bar B Q grill be far behind ?

    My mom used to use her pressure cooker to make a fantastic meal with meaty ham bones and white beans. Yum!

    Thank goodness everyone had handguns and carry permits in Boston.
  • Apr 16, 2013, 01:09 PM
    speechlesstx
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by tomder55 View Post
    figures . now there will be alerts about cooking devices. Can the propane Bar B Q grill be far behind ?


    A Short Recent History of Pressure Cooker Bombs | TIME.com

    They can pry my spatula from my cold dead fingers.

    I've got 2 propane smokers, a propane grill, a pressure cooker and we sell ball bearings. Am I going to be on a watch list?
  • Apr 16, 2013, 01:14 PM
    speechlesstx
    And it continues... according to Steny hoyer the Boston bombing is proof that the sequester is bad or something.
  • Apr 16, 2013, 01:29 PM
    NeedKarma
    Quote:

    And it continues... according to Steny hoyer the Boston bombing is proof that the sequester is bad or something.
    He was specifically asked that question:
    Quote:

    Asked by a reporter whether Monday's attack makes the argument for addressing sequestration, Hoyer explained, "I think there are multiple reasons for ensuring that we invest in our security -- both domestic and international security. That we invest in the education of our children. That we invest in growing jobs in America. And don't pursue an irrational, across-the-board policy of cutting the highest priorities and the lowest priorities essentially the same percentage.... I think this is another proof of that -- if proof is needed, which I don't think frankly it is."
    The he says:
    Quote:

    Hoyer added, "I doubt that [sequestration's] having any impact presently --
    So basically, had you read the actual article, he says the exact opposite of what you posted.
  • Apr 16, 2013, 01:58 PM
    speechlesstx
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by NeedKarma View Post
    He was specifically asked that question:


    The he says:


    So basically, had you read the actual article, he says the exact opposite of what you posted.

    He's talking out of both sides of his mouth.

    He said the bombing was proof - "I think this is another proof" - that the sequester -"an irrational, across-the-board policy of cutting the highest priorities and the lowest priorities essentially the same percentage" was bad but that it wasn't "presently" having any impact. If you weren't so busy trying to discredit me you would know that.
  • Apr 16, 2013, 02:07 PM
    NeedKarma
    I simply read the article and it totally contradicts your linking it to "the Boston bombing is proof that the sequester is bad".

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