At least he will be able to put all the evidence he has against Trump in a thimble, so it won't weigh him down any.
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At least he will be able to put all the evidence he has against Trump in a thimble, so it won't weigh him down any.
Wishful thinking? Hopeful wishing? I see a lot of right wing heads exploding in the next few years. Be a good time to convert to the TRUTH, and stop holding your nose.
https://www.arcamax.com/newspics/cac...06/1670651.jpg
Well he may be right, but then less military spending and adventurism would ease the burden
And just what truth are you referring to?Quote:
Be a good time to convert to the TRUTH,
Hello again, tom:
Instead of starting another thread, I'd like your opinion.. What happens IF there's a red wave? What happens if we EMBRACE Donald Trump?? What happens if the Mueller probe is shut down? What happens if it's buried? What does the next 50 years look like??
It's certainly gonna be WAY different than the liberal America I grew up in.
excon
We can only hope.Quote:
It's certainly gonna be WAY different than the liberal America I grew up in.
Hello again, j:Quote:
Originally Posted by jlisenbe
I dunno.. We completed the interstate highway system and ended segregation in the south. We went to the moon and won the Cold War. We passed the voting rights act and protected the environment.. We passed health care for all.. We had relatively free education, and a booming middle class for years upon years..
That all ended when Reagan came along..
excon
Greetings, Ex:
Uhm... when Reagan came along, the unemployment rate was 7% and inflation was 12%. Yeah, things were really great. You failed to mention the Vietnam War and the beginning of a welfare state that has been a disaster. You did not pass health care for all before or since Reagan. I will give liberals credit for progress with civil rights, but the interstate highway system? It was started by, and named after, President Dwight D. Eisenhower, who was not exactly a famous liberal. Going to the moon was a nationwide effort and was hardly the exclusive domain of liberals. Won the Cold War? That's a funny one. The Cold War was "won" during, and due to, the Reagan admin. Then there is that famous liberal Barack Obama who doubled the national debt.
The SS and Medicare scare is a worn out ploy that hasn't worked for the Dems for years. They have NOTHING to do with the deficit except for the fraud the government has been doing for decades by defrauding the taxpayers adding the revenue into the general funds instead of holding it in a separate account. Let's face facts ;you know and I know that both programs are insolvent ;and will be getting worse . You know and I know that the solutions that we will be offered is going to suck and both sides are positioning to blame the other side when the sh+t hits the fan .
Hello again, j:Quote:
Originally Posted by jlisenbe
I wasn't speaking about liberals, per se.. I was speaking about liberal governance.
excon
So Ex, what exactly is liberal governance?
Ex I have no intention of embracing Trump . But what is right is right ;and it is clear to me that the Mueller probe is more a symptom of the governing class doing a soft coup against an outsider who won the election.
I don't think much will change or has changed .Trump plans on spending more on infrastructure than the Dems ever dreamed of . You want bridges ,airports roads , then Trump is your man . The Republicans have all but abandoned fiscal responsibility and if they lose the House it will be because the Republican base will be holding them to account . They can't out Dem the Dem so I don't understand why they are trying . Trump ;except for taxes and deregulation has been more liberal than many liberals . He promised to support a $ trillion infrastructure plan and I have no doubt that without resistance from the right ,he'll get that through .
He wants guaranteed paid leave .That is a Dem idea .
btw there is no such thing as 'free health care and free education . Someone pays it .But that word free sells well in campaign rhetoric . It is more likely that Trump ,who actually supports a form of universal health care ,would work with the Dems to carve out a bill. Anyone who actually listens to him knows that he constantly rhetorically takes on big pharma and insurance companies . Both Trump and the Dems are very critical of drug pricing . He accused them of 'getting away with murder' .He wants the drug companies to disclose the price of the drug in their advertisements . If allowed he will enact reforms in health care involving pricing and access.
He has come out in support of a so called path to citizenship for illegals who were brought in as children ,very similar to the Dems "dreamer " plan .
He sided with many of the libs like Bolshevik Bernie and Elizabeth Warren in opposing the TPP trade deal and followed through by withdrawing from it .
He has signed legislation designed to promote women in the areas of science ,technology ,engineering and math . He signedthe "Promoting Women In Entrepreneurship Act." The law authorizes the National Science Foundation to support entrepreneurial programs for women.He signed an EO for a $200 million a year education grants for woman and minorities interested in science.
I don't think that the Cold War was won at all because we completely blew it after the wall came down. Putin gained power because we did not support democracy in Russia . All the rhetoric about Trump being a Putin puppet is shear nonsense . He has been been more hardline against Russia than any post cold war President. That is just a fact . He's expanded sanctions ;war gamed right on Russia's borders and we now have US troops and weapons systems in nations like Poland and the Baltics states . He has taken on Russia in Syria ,actions that resulted in the loss of at least 200 Russian 'green shirt ' army troops .On two separate occasions, he ordered expulsions of Russian diplomats stationed in the United States.He closed down 3 Russian facilities . He has sent weapons to support Ukraine ,including 210 Javelin anti-tank missiles . If Putin did meddle in the US elections ,he is not getting what he bargained for .
Liberal governance, first you have to define liberal, liberal is not socialism, it is a sense of social justice, equality for all , doesn't that phrase turn up somewhere in your national psycheand upholding conservative values. Governance has some sense of morality attached to it
Liberal governance issecuring the freedom of the individual by limiting the power of the government. That hasn't happened in this country in a century .
Liberal governance is letting people pursue their freedom while effectively protecting and defending the constitution of the USA! That might happen if the rich dudes kept their hands of our government.
Tal, that's not going to happen, the more of them you get the more they will make their capitalist utopia and screw the masses
So when the government takes my money to give to another person, in what way is it protecting my freedom and defending the Constitution?
you see the cr@p sandwich the Dems are proposing ? In addition to this Medicare for all freebee Sen Harris is proposing just cutting a check for $500 /month to everyone within the means level she decides . Sen Booker came out with a 'baby bonds' plan where everyone on the day of their birth gets a $1000 payout from the government to be held by the government invested in "safe " low yield "investments" aka government securities (?) . Then every year additional funds would be added based on the family means . The government would hold on to this money until that person reaches 18 .Quote:
So when the government takes my money to give to another person, in what way is it protecting my freedom and defending the Constitution?
The Dems platform seems to be
https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/i...Hq5HrYiofAqyo6
The great tragedy is not so much the giveaway programs that dems love so much. The great tragedy is not even having the idea that money grows on trees, so we can spend, spend, spend and never have to exercise any discipline or restraint. We have passed 21 tril in federal debt with no slow down in sight. No, the great tragedy is that the American people have become so stupid that it does not bother us. Republicans and democrats alike, we are all content to sit around and worry about whether the NFL players are going to kneel again to protest an almost non-existent problem. It is going to catch up to us, and probably sooner rather than later. It is just amazing to me how we are throwing away what God has blessed us with. I would happily support a bill that makes it illegal for any congressman to propose spending without a corresponding means of paying for it, and as a penalty that person would be caned in public in front of the Washington Monument. That would stop it. Honestly, I think it would take that.
What part of mortgaging your future don't you understand? You don't give to this generation you demand this generation work for its future and you provide the means by which they can work
I have no idea what you are suggesting we do. We demand this generation work, yet we are to provide the means by which they can work? What "means" are you referring to? Mortgaging the future? That is usually thought to be a bad thing. Is that your meaning?
Clete means running up the deficit so rich guys get mo' money is a mortgage on your kids future. It is the job of government to make the means that we can all work, and be happy and maintain a healthy environment.Quote:
Originally Posted by jlisenbe
Universal healthcare would save everybody money, and it's a proven job creator. Closing rich guy tax loopholes would put more money in circulation for everybody, and an infrastructure project brings so many jobs that you may have to have those immigrants in huge numbers to do it, because your fat lazy kids are too good to get their hands dirty.
Repoobs who run everything the government does haven't solved any problems, or done anything but make the rich richer, and the poor poorer, and JL is pissed they take his money and give it to somebody else. Ask your local rich guy where your money is, cause them poor people you take food to sure as heck ain't got it.
I'll bet the Dufus can tell you where your money is. He has ridden the rich guy gravy train all his life, and so have his kids. Even Tom has told you how crooked the dude has been and I believe him. Some choice to run our government.
How on earth does deficit spending get more money to rich people? You could take the entire income of the top 1% in taxes and we would STILL have deficit spending. The problem is over spending.Quote:
Clete means running up the deficit so rich guys get mo' money is a mortgage on your kids future
Just absolute fantasy. Universal healthcare is government provided, and when have you ever known the feds to spend money efficiently? As for government sponsored infrastructure projects, just go back to the money squandered by the Obama people with the so called "stimulus money" and so how well that went. The feds always, always waste money. Your thinking is just clouded by your jealousy of rich people. There is no Constitutional mandate for the feds to force rich people to take care of JL and Tal. If we want it, we need to get off our rear ends and go get it. I hope to never count on other people to take care of me. That's my job.Quote:
Universal healthcare would save everybody money, and it's a proven job creator. Closing rich guy tax loopholes would put more money in circulation for everybody, and an infrastructure project brings so many jobs that you may have to have those immigrants in huge numbers to do it, because your fat lazy kids are too good to get their hands dirty.
Universal healthcare would save everybody money,
because it works so well with the VA
That does include the tax cuts to those 1%ers doesn't it? The economy is booming according to the dufus but instead of a HUGE infrastructure bill, he cuts taxes so blame the guy who you held your nose to vote for, for his deficit overspending. Naw you just can't wrap your head around fiscal facts.Quote:
Originally Posted by jlisenbe
No it's not and as usual you have no clue about facts. For one it works EVERYWHERE else because it cuts out the middle man and controls PRICES. The other fact is it's voluntary since if you want your own private insurance then go buy it. As far as those stimulus money projects, you and Tom can always come to Texas and see how it was used and drive on our super highways. At least Google what your state did before you blast it as a waste. FACTS MATTER!Quote:
Just absolute fantasy. Universal healthcare is government provided, and when have you ever known the feds to spend money efficiently? As for government sponsored infrastructure projects, just go back to the money squandered by the Obama people with the so called "stimulus money" and so how well that went. The feds always, always waste money. Your thinking is just clouded by your jealousy of rich people. There is no Constitutional mandate for the feds to force rich people to take care of JL and Tal. If we want it, we need to get off our rear ends and go get it. I hope to never count on other people to take care of me. That's my job.
https://www.thebalance.com/what-was-...ackage-3305625
Glad your doing well and hope that continues. Probably help if you covered your ears while you hold your nose when the dufus fills your head with loony gobble-d-goop. You actually think he and his sycophants are working for you? I truly hate to see your head explode when you grasps the truth.
If the health care system in the US is a monstrosity, then you think the VA would be different?Quote:
Originally Posted by tomder55
https://www.huffpost.com/entry/in-wh...-he_b_12849148
Of course repoobs who love rich capitalists you call free marketeers, want to repeal Obamacare and go back to that model.Quote:
Providers therefore essentially have gotten used to a world in which everyone can raise prices by 5-10% every year, and in which insurers largely mark up those rising unit costs by a constant 15% administrative margin, and in which this then all gets passed on to us.
the system previous to Obamacare was not free market . That was it's biggest failure . Anyway I answered Ex's question . Not much changes after Mueller. You guys are going to have to face facts that he found no evidence of either "collusion"with Russia or obstruction . So you can put away your Mueller bobble heads .
https://i.ebayimg.com/images/g/42AAA...Ekf/s-l640.jpg
and your Mueller super hero comics .
https://images.dailykos.com/images/4...jpg?1503929423
Mueller's job isn't to prove collusion, it was to uncover the full extent of Russian election interference. Not his fault he found lying and cheating amongst the Dufus's campaign crew or other wrongdoing along the way. You don't think the flunkies for the dufus will turn on some of his wrong doing? Maybe NOT, but you don't cooperate and get plea deals unless you have SOMETHING to negotiate with.
And the law prosecutes conspiracy not collusion, and we will see about the obstruction, but taking the word of a lying cheating dufus that he is innocent is not a smart play I don't think, as maybe all the facts have yet to be revealed. I can wait for Mueller to clear the foul mouth bully of those allegations, if for not some other wrong doing that has been turned over to other jurisdictions for continued investigations. I hear Roger Stone is the next one under scrutiny, and of course he denies everything like the others did, and would never roll over on the dufus (His words not mine), so maybe you should keep that bobblehead a bit longer just in case it's value goes way up in the near future like after the midterm vacation he has been on.
It was a rip off like all the other free market solutions that rich guys make revenue streams from, and rigged at that.Quote:
the system previous to Obamacare was not free market . That was it's biggest failure
You clearly don't understand, you say you demand the generation work, how? How many unemployed kids do you see painting rocks white or removing rubbish, same goes for unemployed adults. You look at some marvellous unemployment statistic and say that you have demanded the generation work, it is an illusion otherwise Trump couldn't have appealed to the unemployed and won.Quote:
Originally Posted by jlisenbe
Yes mortgaging the future by spending more than the revenue you have is a bad thing, printing money is a bad thing. How do you stop it, start by cutting off your over bloated military and correcting the structure of your economy
Unemployment at 3.7%. Yeah, if you want a job, you can get one. In fact, you can work all you want.Quote:
You clearly don't understand, you say you demand the generation work, how? How many unemployed kids do you see painting rocks white or removing rubbish, same goes for unemployed adults. You look at some marvellous unemployment statistic and say that you have demanded the generation work, it is an illusion otherwise Trump couldn't have appealed to the unemployed and won.
Painting rocks white? I haven't seen that.
Overspending is a problem and the military is a problem, so we agree on a lot of that. Correct the structure of an economy that has produced 3.7% unemployment? Why?Quote:
Yes mortgaging the future by spending more than the revenue you have is a bad thing, printing money is a bad thing. How do you stop it, start by cutting off your over bloated military and correcting the structure of your economy
Tal, I'm glad to hear you say that facts matter. You should try using a few.
I'm not Tal, you are confused because you listen to Trump B/S, any politician can pull a good statistic out of his little box of tricks and say, see what I have done for you, but have a look at the underemployment statistic because the 3.7% only measures those looking for work, not those of employable age, it doesn't measure youth unemployment and to say anyone who wants a job can find one is fallacy, you have to be in the right placeQuote:
Tal, I'm glad to hear you say that facts matter. You should try using a few.
Underemployment in 2017 was a staggering 12.5% that is over 30 million people and may actually be be much higher depending on whether you measure graduates in menial jobs
Three questions. First, underemployment is not measured by the Bureau of Statistics, so where did you get your figure from? Second, there are about 130 million people employed full time in the U.S. so 12% of that would be nothing close to 30 million. How did you arrive at 30 million? Last, what was the underemployment rate in 2012?Quote:
Underemployment in 2017 was a staggering 12.5% that is over 30 million people and may actually be be much higher depending on whether you measure graduates in menial jobs
According to this article, underemployment in Australia is even worse than here. "And it turns out that the U.S. may not be even the biggest offender: some of the world’s highest rates of underemployment are in Australia, or the land Down Under."
http://theunderemployedlife.com/aust...nothing-funny/
anyone who can pass a drug test can have 2 jobs . Unemployment rate would be higher if they factored in the labor participation rate . A bunch of wastrals have dropped out of the labor force opting to become permanent wards of the; very generous with other people's money ;nanny state .
Underemployment ? Shame on anyone in America who thinks they are underemployed . Get off your @ss and find a better job. There is plenty of work out there .There are still some regions that have not caught up ;but that shouldn't be a deterrent . Move to where the jobs are . That has always been the American way .
yeah ok . tell me you won't be major disappointment if Mueller doesn't come back with something on Trump that Congress can use to impeach. That was his only mission. Sorry you will just have to live with the fact that a reality TV star beat a former Senator and Sec State ,and was not a secret sleeper cell KGB agent from the 80s. You will just have to face facts that Evita lost because she wasn't interested in doing the work in the states she needed to win ...or maybe she was too sick to do the work .Quote:
Mueller's job isn't to prove collusion, it was to uncover the full extent of Russian election interference.
You have great attitude Tom , no compassion but great attitude, the old it is your fault you are poor sham. The economy is constantly changing and so people lack the skills to do what is required and must be retrained otherwise they are caught in the low wage spiral, get a job at minimum wage that is the capitalist answer, this is not a virtue, but exploitation. Get a degree so you have a PhD in street sweeping. The American way, the old Superman mantra, defending the American wayQuote:
Originally Posted by tomder55
so go and retrain .The trolley driver had to learn how to drive a bus ;the draftsman had to learn to use a cad . The blacksmith had to find something else to do when transportation shifted from horses to autos . That is just the way it is . I retrained for more than one job since I joined the work force .I am not doing the same job as when I was ripping tickets in half at the theater or cooking short order ,or going to school to become public servant ,or managing a food service . When did stocking shelves at Walmart become a lifetime permanent job unless that is the absolute very best you can do ? The answer is to do what is necessary after you've set realistic goals . If someone went to school to get a degree in a field where there are no opportunities then suck it up and retrain . The days of staying on the same job for a lifetime ;and having your children's prospects being to take your place on the job are long gone and thank God for that ! If you want to say I lack compassion because I speak reality then I'm good with that .
Unemployment is down to under 4%, so people have to find something else to complain about. We live in what might be the greatest land of opportunity on the planet. We live in what is probably the most prosperous period ever experienced on the earth. Anyone who wants a job can have one, two, three, whatever. If you are willing to work and learn, then you can make progress. But since everything is not perfect, then we continue to complain. Well OK, things could be better in some areas, but right now the economy is great. If you don't agree with this idea that we need to keep on complaining, then you are said to be lacking in compassion.
Yes Tom we have all done that, some of us are multiskilled, but not everyoneQuote:
Originally Posted by tomder55
then that is their lot in life . I'm saying there is a whole big incentive there IF the government doesn't provide such a cushy safety net. For MANY prime age people in this country there is no incentive to change their situation . Prime age people instead have been taking advantage of the very lenient requirements for eligibility for disability status . The rate of prime age people not returning to the workforce is alarming ,and it has absolutely nothing to do with skill set or alleged disability . It is a very deliberate choice to eat out of the trough of other productive people's efforts.
Of course you have data to back that up? I trust you Tom but it's that verify thing from King Reagan that has always stuck with me. I mean JL is giddy over the unemployment numbers and you say young people are too lazy to work, and half the country is below the poverty line.Quote:
Originally Posted by tomder55
As I remember there is nothing cushy about poverty.
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