If I'm wrong show me. That's why we're here.

I asked this: NOT a fact but a lie since he called it an act of terrorism that following MONDAY. Look it up! I did but you didn't. He sent out Susan Rice on five Sunday morning talk shows shortly after to say it was NOT an act of terror. How do you explain that???

Your answer is to talk about riots that occurred at other embassies. But the question is why did the president call it an act of terror "that following Monday", but then later sent out Susan Rice to say it was NOT an act of terror. As usual, you did not answer the question. So I'll ask it again. How could it be an act of terror one day, but simply be a spontaneous mob action several days later?

The answer is painfully obvious. Mr. Obama lied. You can't bring yourself to admit that. Fast and Furious was, to you, merely inept. That people died does not bother you in the slightest. Why? Because you can't come to the place of admitting that your beloved president was dirty, just like Trump. The significant difference is that Mr. Trump has not managed to get anyone killed yet.

So it all comes down to issues. I prefer Trump on the issues. I'm not going to call people names just because I don't like them or disagree with them.

Here are the charges against Manafort. It plainly states they are issues which occurred prior to 2016 and concerned money paid to him for services rendered, over many years, to the Ukrainians. He did not report this income to the feds. Read it for yourself.

https://apps.npr.org/documents/docum...al-Information

Item 12 under the heading of The Scheme clearly states he was operating his criminal activities from 2006-2017 INCLUSIVE. If you recall he defrauded the Chicago bank after the election. In addition he pleaded to all 18 counts in the first trail, though he was only convicted on 8, and all the charged counts he was indicted on in the second trial. So parse it any way you want since the bottom line is Manafort and Gates worked for the campaign while they were involved in criminal activities together.

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/...am/1288931002/

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The charges replace a raft of separate accusations that Manafort had failed to register as a foreign agent, lied to the government, laundered money and committed fraud. In a court filing Friday, Mueller's office said Manafort laundered more than $30 million from his work for Yanukovych, then "used his hidden overseas wealth to enjoy a lavish lifestyle in the United States." The criminal conduct continued through 2017.

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I really don't understand why you are trying to separate this international criminal from the campaign when clearly he was there for nefarious purposes and criminal intent that was ongoing as I have always said. There will be a lot more on this and more wrongdoing brought to light by Mueller you can bet on it. The Dufus has surrounded himself with crooks trying to enrich themselves and they are going to jail. If they had not been caught they would still be doing it.

As for your Benghazi claims you can look it up yourself and imagine if you will the actual events of Sept. 11, 2012 when the riots, protests, and demonstration were occurring across the globe at US embassies, at the same time as Benghazi was happening. I don't understand why you take this as an isolated incident when the links I provided was quite clear in the real time facts despite those who are stuck on one event which I fully acknowledge as tragic. I think all who give their lives in service of the country is profoundly tragic.

I don't agree at all that Obama is as dirty as the Dufus. You would like it to be so just to justify your dislike of dems in favor of republicans. I get that tribal partisanship, but we are a nation of laws, process and procedures and that's where things like this are settled, whether we like it or not. We just have to wait what else comes of Mueller's investigation, and what a court of law decides don't we.

So I'll ask the question again since you still won't answer it. If Obama said it was an act of terror the day following, as you stated he did, and then sent out Susan Rice days later to say it was NOT an act of terror, then how do you explain that? If you are saying he was confused the day following, then I can get that. But he wasn't confused when he sent Rice to lie to the American public. How do you explain that?

As for Manafort, the political aspect of it occurred prior to 2016. The part you referred to concerned money laundering. As of this morning, there is absolutely no connection to the Trump campaign. That might show up, and if it does we will have to see what it consists of, but there is absolutely nothing at this point.

"I really don't understand why you are trying to separate this international criminal from the campaign when clearly he was there for nefarious purposes and criminal intent that was ongoing as I have always said." That is not clear at all. There is no criminal connection between Manafort and the Trump campaign that has been established. Zero. Nothing.

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Originally Posted by jlisenbe

So I'll ask the question again since you still won't answer it. If Obama said it was an act of terror the day following, as you stated he did, and then sent out Susan Rice days later to say it was NOT an act of terror, then how do you explain that? If you are saying he was confused the day following, then I can get that. But he wasn't confused when he sent Rice to lie to the American public. How do you explain that?

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That's not what I said nor what happened. Susan Rice went on the Sunday shows first with limited knowledge and she said so, but referenced the other global events around all the embassies and Obama addressed the nation from the rose garden that Monday. Did you bother to read the links? If I can find the sources I used back then from The Israeli news feeds, Al Jazeera and the BBC, I'll post them.

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As for Manafort, the political aspect of it occurred prior to 2016. The part you referred to concerned money laundering. As of this morning, there is absolutely no connection to the Trump campaign. That might show up, and if it does we will have to see what it consists of, but there is absolutely nothing at this point.

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There is enough for suspicion and a warrant, but we'll see huh?

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"I really don't understand why you are trying to separate this international criminal from the campaign when clearly he was there for nefarious purposes and criminal intent that was ongoing as I have always said." That is not clear at all. There is no criminal connection between Manafort and the Trump campaign that has been established. Zero. Nothing.

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Manafort, Dufus Jr, and Kushner all attended a meeting with reps from the Russian government in Trump Towers. They have the email that states they knew who they were meeting with. Lets see Manafort, international criminal, and campaign manager too the boys working for daddy and daddy in law to a meeting with Russians and you cannot connect those dot as kind of suspicious, and daddy knows nothing? OKAY got it.

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That's not what I said nor what happened. Susan Rice went on the Sunday shows first with limited knowledge and she said so, but referenced the other global events around all the embassies and Obama addressed the nation from the rose garden that Monday. Did you bother to read the links? If I can find the sources I used back then from The Israeli news feeds, Al Jazeera and the BBC, I'll post them.

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The attack occurred on 9/11. Mr. Obama referred to it, sort of, as an "act of terror" the following day (9/12) in the Rose Garden. Rice appeared on 5 Sunday programs on 9/16 to say it was a spontaneous mob action spurred by a video they found to be offensive, which of course was not true. I'm not sure where you are getting your timeline from. Several weeks later Mr. Obama claimed in a presidential debate that he had, in fact, referenced it as an "act of terrorism", which was a pretty weak claim when you go back and read the quotes. What Susan Rice said was absolutely untrue. You try to excuse that by saying they had incomplete knowledge. That is also a pretty weak claim.

This is your quote I referred to. "since he called it an act of terrorism that following MONDAY."

Seems I did get my dates a bit mixed up, but no excuse for your head to explode.

https://www.politifact.com/punditfac...ole-benghazi-/

https://www.nytimes.com/2012/10/22/u...-scrutiny.html

This Friday night special NY Slimes Rosenstein story is vintage Trump- Russia by the so called gate keeper publications of record.designed to be just in time fodder for the Sunday morning talk shows ……. Immediately upon publication, it's breathlessly treated as The Story, the ultimate proof, the breaking point. Then it simmers, people read it, consider what it says, then it evaporates into a light steam.https://www.nytimes.com/2018/09/21/u...amendment.html

You knew it would be something to change the narrative from the Kavanaugh hearings. Speculating about Rosenstein conspiring against the dufus would do it.

Trump is doing a good job derailing Kavenaugh all on his own , If he pissed off Collins enough he could lose the Senate majority . When the Dems should consider is that there are much more conservative constructionist judges on Trumps short list than Kavanaugh . They should consider that he is the best they will get.

Right wing heads will explode if Kavanaugh isn't confirmed, and may put the senate in play for the dems this fall, but I doubt anything stops the purge coming in the DOJ, and that may be just the start.

The purge that is coming is needed .

Quis custodiet ipsos custodes?

I agree. Between the elections, Muellers investigations, and the New York AG we should purge the stink of the Dufus administration and his sycophants.

Wrapping it up ? Supposedly some of his investigators are being let go . The only recent news is that he has been showing Roger Stone emails to people asking for their reaction.

I think Mueller will be back after the election.

nah time to show his cards . I just think he has nothing except some old crimes from people Trump hired . The ace in the hole was Papadopoulos and those bread crumbs led no where.

Papadopoulos is only important to the story because Joseph Mifsud saw him for the sucker patsy he was ,feeding him fiction to set up a pretext to get a FISA Court surveillance warrant so the Dems could spy on the Trump campaign.

I guess the slimes got it wrong about the Dufus empire being full of fraud and corruption and they didn't need Coffee boy to spy on the dufus to say so.

How did you reach that conclusion?

What other conclusion could you come to when you elect a corrupt con man to run your country? The dufus carried off one heckuva coup to the incompetent repub party. They effectively have all the power to do whatever they please.

I think there is something there . The Slimes is suspect because I think they have been holding on to this until the perfect time to attempt to influence the mid-terms . This tax thing will now take center stage after their failed attempt to keep Kavanaugh off the bench ;and the revelation today that the FBI lied about how they got the Steele Dossier.

The narrative has been that Evita's campaign paid for it through an intermediary ....the law firm Perkins Coie .They paid Steele and he created the dossier . That in turn got handed over to the FBI .They used the unverified dossiers as the main evidence to get FISA Court warrants to spy on the Trump campaign .

Turns out that FBI general counsel James Baker sat in meetings at Perkins Coie coordinating the activities . Baker met yesterday with lawmakers and pretty much confirmed the charge . Baker could not answer some questions about FBI media contacts, citing an ongoing investigation by the Justice Department inspector general into illegal leaks during and after the election.

These revelations illustrate how much the FBI and Justice Department have withheld from the public about their collaboration and collusion with the Clinton campaign ,the DNC, Fusion and Steele.

I just have to ask, are we there yet?

We may yet get there Clete, once Tom reveals his sources to his stories, or not.

which story ? That chief FBI council James Baker coordinated with Perkins Coie ? It is indisputable.

How about the whole thing... all the stories you put forth. In full disclosure, I have read all the right wing loonies accounts, and yours match very closely, but what I was more interested in that the Steele dossier was the only source of probable cause, and the political aspects where not disclosed. As a matter of law, even if it was used for probable cause in the first warrant, it surely cannot stand alone to be reauthorized by that judge let alone 2 subsequent ones after.

That's right wing loony ignorance and dufus and his sycophant narrative.

Any objective judge worth his salt is going to ask the FBI where they got the dossier and how it was is verified . That did not happen and I won't believe otherwise until we see the unredacted 302's It is a fact that Baker was the FBI contact with David Corn . Now he testified to Congress that he coordinated with Perkins Coie and it is clear that he coordinated the FBI efforts in discrediting candidate Trump for Evita and the emperor .

So those FISA judges were not objective or stupid, and no way was the targets of those being investigated dubious in their dealings? Some theory but little EVIDENCE as one other forum member is fond of saying. Maybe when Mueller is done we will see more. You do understand it's an ongoing active investigation. The litigants can always appeal if there was wrong doing in the way the FBI or Mueller made their cases.

Let's tie the 2 big stories together . Andrew Miller was subpoenaed by Mueller to testify against Roger Stone. He hired a constitutional attorney named Paul Kamenar who is challenging the constitutional legitimacy of Special Council Mueller in an appeals court .Andrew Miller v. United States

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According to Kamenar, there are only two constitutionally permissible options for Special Counsel to have been appointed . An officer can be nominated by the President .Or Congress may create a law to skip over the nomination and confirmation process, and to vest the appointment of inferior officers in the President alone, in the court, or in the heads of departments, like an Attorney General.
Mueller as you know was appointed by deputy AG Rosenstein . Kamenar says a Deputy AG does not have the power to appoint inferior officers.

Rosenstein relied on authority that he claimed was vested in him under laws written by Congress to govern the powers of the AG. But that power " to appoint an inferior officer" is not listed in any of the laws written by Congress.

Not only that ;under no one's rules is Rosenstein an "acting AG. By law he can only become and acting AG if the AG resigns ,or dies ,or is fired etc . Sessions is still AG . I'm guessing that the court will have to decide if his recusal satisfies the letter of the law .According to the argument ;only Sessions has the power to appoint a special council.

This case is in the DC Circuit Court and could end up in SCOTUS .

A win for Kamenar could invalidate all of Mueller's work including all previous prosecutions. Oral arguments are scheduled for November 8, 2018.

The dufus has already appointed his 5th vote so he should be good to go after this weekend. I guess he solved that problem. Now he can fire everybody like he wanted to from jump street.

not until after the elections .

Why wait?

Go SOX!

split in Fenway ;sweep in the Bronx.

https://www.mlb.com/cut4/aaron-judge...ay/c-297305406

Jim Comey - Fired
Andy McCabe - Under Grand Jury investigation
Peter Strzok- Fired
Bruce Ohr- Demoted
Glenn Simpson - Pleading the 5th
Joseph Mifsud - Can’t be located
Downer - Keeps changing his story
Steele - Can’t verify his information

Russian woman charged with U.S. election interference through social media - Chicago Tribune

And the Russian woman's father's name is... Donald Trump! So there you have it. He is guilty as charged. This Russian woman also has solid evidence against Judge Kavanaugh, so they have him dead to rights as well. She can also prove that Pres. Trump was responsible for the Benghazi disaster and the anemic economic growth under Pres. Obama.

I don't know if they have enough evidence to prove all of that, never know, but they are indicting her with enough evidence in connection with attempting to affect THIS election.

You forgot the sarcasm font.

At last, the smoking gun, a Russian interfered with an election somewhere, sometime. And who is responsible for the actions of a Russian citizen? Why, the US of course, they dared to hold elections.

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You forgot the sarcasm font.

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Very true.

I imagine every large country tries to influence elections. I know President Obama attempted to do so in Israel. It should come as no surprise.

https://www.zerohedge.com/news/2018-...ddled-election

Apparently it is not a crime to interfere in elections so the witchhunt has finally been shown to be a witchhunt

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I know President Obama attempted to do so in Israel. It should come as no surprise.

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not to mention our blatant interference in Ukraine . It would be too long to document all the cases of US interferences in foreign elections ;including but not limited to assassinations and coups .

That doesn't mean you let a foreign dictator have his way against our country with utter impunity. A good watchdog is supposed to bark... and BITE when you get in his yard. So the Russians are going to court, big deal, it's just Mueller's move now. I doubt he is surprised at this event, nor unprepared as you guys think.