Yes Tom we can agree social engineering is a bust whether it is a nazi or communist utopia or the home grown version, We have all paid the price for your social engineering because of your conscience. Johnson also tried to reengineer south east asia so I think we can definitatively say his policies failed. Look I know it is hard to lift a down trodden group out of poverty and relocation, voluntary, of course, seems to be an answer. Some groups in the world have seized the initiative, millions are on the move but you don't have either push factors over there just pull factors, someone thinks what your minorities have is better than what they have even if it is only opportunity and lack of war

meanwhile here in NY ,we have had our 5th cop shot in 5 months ..
http://www.nytimes.com/2015/05/03/ny...in-queens.html

and 3 police officers were hurt during a riot by May Day thugs in Seattle .
May Day: Clashes erupt in Seattle; 3 officers injured - CNN.com

Tom you know as well as I do you reap what you sow, now there might be a disconnect some reaping what others have sown and we also know the thugs will get theirs eventually. Perhaps you need a different model in the criminal justice system where these minorities are concerned, one we find helpful is to have community elders and leaders assist in the sentencing and even the charging processes. It has been shown to have positive results. But then I guess your process is sacrosanct being enshrined as it is in a historical document, but you could extend the definition of peers a little

as an observation NYC has been a violent place for a very long time so if you have kept the body count down to one a month maybe you are achieving something. How many cops are there in NYC, thousands? I know the cops being killed is deplorable and it makes them nervious. As to police being hurt in riots, i think you will find the count in Baltimore and other places higher and it is because they are deliberately targetted. A community that does that is inviting heavy handed tactics. Not blaming just saying there is frustration on both sides. Baltimore you have hundreds of youth go wild no doubt led by aggitators but someone gave them an excuse, a sense of unjustice

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Originally Posted by paraclete

Tom you know as well as I do you reap what you sow, now there might be a disconnect some reaping what others have sown and we also know the thugs will get theirs eventually. Perhaps you need a different model in the criminal justice system where these minorities are concerned, one we find helpful is to have community elders and leaders assist in the sentencing and even the charging processes. It has been shown to have positive results. But then I guess your process is sacrosanct being enshrined as it is in a historical document, but you could extend the definition of peers a little

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We do have a process just as you describe. It is called the Grand Jury system. It is in place to allow the citizenry to participate in the legal syatem.

Quote from Wiki:
A grand jury in the United States is usually composed of 12 to 23 citizens, though in Virginia it is composed of lesser numbers for regular or special grand juries. In Ireland, they also functioned as local government authorities. In Japan the Law of July 12, 1948 created the Kensatsu Shinsakai (Prosecutorial Review Commission, or PRC, system), much like a grand jury. A grand jury is so named because traditionally it has a greater number of jurors than a trial jury, called a petit jury (from the French word petit meaning "small").^{[SIZE=2][[/SIZE]}



Grand jury - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

No Tom not the same process I suggest. How many of your Grand Jury would be drawn from the community in which the offence occurred and how many would actually be a peer group of the accused. I know the wording says peers but difficult to accomplish after so many years of intermingling. The Grand Jury is no doubt a process of sifting due process where as I'm speaking of a process which brings certain cultural nuiances to bear and it is powerful because the evidence is reviewed by community leaders and so there can be certain community pressure which is extra judicial as in, the community may be aware of both good and bad factors associated with the accused. This process sometimes results in a more severe sentence. You would probably consider this a deniel of individual rights but it actually results in less custodial sentences and more rehibitation in lesser cases. It is only used in the case of first nation minorities

Hello:

Mosby for president!

excon

Hello again,

I dunno bout you, but accusing the prosecutor of rushing to judgment, BY rushing to judgment himself is self defeating, and really quite stupid.

FOP calls on prosecutor to recuse herself, defends officers - Baltimore Sun

excon

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as an observation NYC has been a violent place for a very long time so if you have kept the body count down to one a month maybe you are achieving something

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not true . NYC was one of the safest cities in the country ...at least it was. Now we have the Sandinista mayor; so things are going back to the bad old days of the 1970s .

Quote:

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Originally Posted by excon

Hello again,

I dunno bout you, but accusing the prosecutor of rushing to judgment, BY rushing to judgment himself is self defeating, and really quite stupid.

FOP calls on prosecutor to recuse herself, defends officers - Baltimore Sun

excon

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Welcome back ????

Hello ex

Hello guys:

S'up?

ex

Where were you? I remember you saying goodbye but not why.

In the last month there have been 31 homicides in the city of Baltimore . None by cops. Where are the civil rights leaders organizing protests against this ?
Baltimore Homicides - baltimoresun.com

Actually Tom they may be a bit busy protesting the homicides by the cops

Community protests as Baltimore killer cops go free | Workers World

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The death toll for people who have died at the hands of the BPD over the last 13 months stands at 16 — more than a person a month!

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And the lawsuits,

https://medium.com/the-baltimore-sun...h-a303c4df4445

Sounds as though Baltimore is a dangerous place and the cops may be justified in taking a hard line with criminals but they should be protecting those who are not criminals and surely it is possible to tell the difference

Quote:

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Originally Posted by paraclete

surely it is possible to tell the difference

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That's the problem -- it's not.

Some cops don't care there is a difference.

Yes it is difficult to get past the idea criminals have black skin

this criminal ran from them ;had a prior arrest record that read like a novel . When they finally subdued him they found an "illegal " knife on his possession . Now I don't agree that the knife should be illegal ...but the city of Baltimore has different ideas .

Anyway ;no ,this was not a case of white cops not knowing the difference between a criminal and an innocent 'black skin'. This was a case where 6 cops ,half of them African-American arrested a criminal who died while in their custody . You can keep on making the claim that this was a racial incident .But the facts tell a different story.

The issue was he DIED in police custody. He ran, but that's not illegal, except he was a black guy. I am not of the notion that cops can just stop, and search, detain a guy who has done NOTHING wrong. The 2 cops were white, and the rest were summoned later.

The notion that a cop should be given such a wide latitude to deal with a segment of the population with no accountability is utterly ridiculous given the history of abuse, and bad behavior, and fatal outcomes visited on a population of the people they are supposed to serve.

Such systemic institutional oppression is unacceptable except to the narrowest of minds.