Well, if that's the best you've got, then you basically have nothing.Quote:
helping the Ukrainian oligarch who had funded that party illegally purchase four tickets to Mr. Trump’s inauguration.
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Well, if that's the best you've got, then you basically have nothing.Quote:
helping the Ukrainian oligarch who had funded that party illegally purchase four tickets to Mr. Trump’s inauguration.
are they talking about the Podesta Group again ?Quote:
failing to register as a foreign agent for a Russia-aligned Ukrainian political party
No, I'm referencing the current crew of dastards the Mueller Crew and his associates are bringing to court and exposing the Russian Connection which beats me how you can deny. Nobody knows where he will end up, but he is doing the job he is tasked with, investigating Russian campaign interference, and getting the rats along the way.
Will you get your wish and the dems and Clintons get caught in his net? We'll see.
BTW, and I ask this sincerely, why would that have been illegal? I would think anyone who wanted to could go to the inaugural so long as they had a ticket.Quote:
helping the Ukrainian oligarch who had funded that party illegally purchase four tickets to Mr. Trump’s inauguration.
Might add that I was so hoping that Trump would have stepped forward and said, "There will be no inaugural balls. There is too much work to do, and we don't need to waste that kind of money." Sadly, he did just like Mr. Obama and others before him.
From what I gleaned:
Sam Patten, pleaded guilty to failing to register as a foreign agent for a Russia-aligned Ukrainian political party, and to helping the Ukrainian oligarch who had funded that party illegally purchase four tickets to Mr. Trump’s inauguration.
That makes any actions he took on behalf of that foreign government illegal. I honestly don't know if had he registered if his actions would have been lawful. Still looking.
"Patten’s plea agreement also included the suggestion that the Trump Inaugural Committee improperly accepted funds from a foreigner. Patten admitted that he illegally helped a Ukrainian oligarch buy a ticket to Trump’s swearing-in through a straw-man donor, though as part of his cooperation agreement he wasn’t charged."
So someone goes to the Trump campaign and buys a ticket to the swearing in ceremony, and then sells the ticket to a foreign government official. Well, that is about as small potatoes as it can get. Hopefully someone in our government could have enough sense to see that this is really not worth getting upset about. Even if he bought fifty tickets to resell, that would still be on him and not on the Trump campaign unless they knowingly cooperated. And even then, it's still garbage. It just shows how ridiculous our system of laws has become. I would think any reasonable person (not a Trump-hating democrat) would agree that this is just plain silly. Give someone a 500 dollar fine and move on to something that might actually be important. If it wasn't for the political content, we wouldn't even know about it.
Meanwhile, hundreds continued to be murdered in Chicago every year. The great error of our country seems to be that we cannot figure out what is really important.
What you so easily dismiss as a small thing may be just the tip of the iceberg to money laundering, and influence peddling, and you do know the inauguration committee is under investigation to account for the money raised and spent don't you? Of course you don't. Guys like Patten, Manafort, and Cohen spend their lives funneling money from the clients to other places for their own enrichment. If it was that small the culprits would pay the fine and keep wheeling and dealing and not plead guilty and cooperate with the law for a better sentence now wouldn't they?
Russians messing with your country, and it's government isn't important to you?
Haven't you ever heard the old saying if you see one roach, there may be a lot more you don't see?
Thank goodness the democrats never do any of those things. At any rate, right now it is a maybe they possibly might have perhaps done something of a completely unspecified nature wrong. Other than, of course, buying a ticket to the swearing in.Quote:
What you so easily dismiss as a small thing may be just the tip of the iceberg to money laundering, and influence peddling, and you do know the inauguration committee is under investigation to account for the money raised and spent don't you? Of course you don't. Guys like Patten, Manafort, and Cohen spend their lives funneling money from the clients to other places for their own enrichment. If it was that small the culprits would pay the fine and keep wheeling and dealing and not plead guilty and cooperate with the law for a better sentence now wouldn't they?
UkraineQuote:
Russians messing with your country, and it's government isn't important to you?
Says the man who admits, with no hint of discomfort, that the Clintons have been under investigation for 30 years. They without question broke the law on more than one occasion. Again...politics. It's kind of sad to see how liberals are so lusting for blood with Trump. Man, talk about hate. They display it openly and proudly. You want to identify the hate speech crowd in America? Look at the left. Now Trump, with his big mouth and ultra sensitive nature doesn't help matters, but he's outnumbered about 10 million to one.Quote:
Haven't you ever heard the old saying if you see one roach, there may be a lot more you don't see?
No maybe to it for some of these guys since they pleaded guilty. I mean DUH!Quote:
Originally Posted by jlisenbe
Lots of Russians in Ukraine trying to get control back... DUH!Quote:
Ukraine
Geez JL, 30 years of allegations, investigations, rumors and conspiracy theories and you guys have ZIP! Nada! Look whose been crying wolf for 30 years and all of a sudden expect to be believed. That in my book make you crazy or incompetent and you better hope Mueller saves YOUR arses, but it may cost the dufus his.Quote:
Says the man who admits, with no hint of discomfort, that the Clintons have been under investigation for 30 years. They without question broke the law on more than one occasion. Again...politics. It's kind of sad to see how liberals are so lusting for blood with Trump. Man, talk about hate. They display it openly and proudly. You want to identify the hate speech crowd in America? Look at the left. Now Trump, with his big mouth and ultra sensitive nature doesn't help matters, but he's outnumbered about 10 million to one.
Hope you don't mind if I dismiss most of your covering the Dufus's butt and his sensitive heart and all as loony talk. Unless I missed the sarcasm font,
"No maybe to it for some" What?? At any rate, nothing involving the Trump campaign. (Started to say "DUH", but decided I don't want to sink to your level.)Quote:
No maybe to it for some of these guys since they pleaded guilty. I mean DUH!
Again, nothing to do with the Trump campaign. (same as above)Quote:
Lots of Russians in Ukraine trying to get control back... DUH!
I really don't care if you believe this or not. Bill Clinton and Hillary Clinton were both convicted of the same number of crimes as Trump, which is ZERO. The difference is, Bill lied in grand jury testimony and that is widely admitted. HC was investigated by the FBI, found guilty of misconduct, and then a now widely discredited FBI director chose not to prosecute. Now in the case of Trump, the evidence clearly shows he did... beat the socks off HC in the election! And you just can't get over it. But no evidence of criminal activity is there. Now it might show up. If it does, maybe Trump can get a softie in the FBI to let him off the hook like HC did.Quote:
Geez JL, 30 years of allegations, investigations, rumors and conspiracy theories and you guys have ZIP! Nada! Look whose been crying wolf for 30 years and all of a sudden expect to be believed. That in my book make you crazy or incompetent and you better hope Mueller saves YOUR arses, but it may cost the dufus his.
And none of that included the 3 women (Kathleen Willey, Juanita Broaddrick, and Paula Jones) who accused Clinton of everything from sexual harassment to rape. But of course liberals only believe women when they accuse conservatives. How about you? You believe those 3 women?
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The got him ! Papadopoulos ;14 days in the slammer !! What did he do again ? Jay walk ?
This is a joke . To refresh your memory . The regulations under which Rosenstein made the appointment require (a) a factual basis for believing that a federal crime worthy of investigation or prosecution has been committed; (b) a conflict of interest so significant that the Justice Department is unable to investigate this suspected crime in the normal course; and (c) an articulation of the factual basis for a criminal investigation i.e., the investigation of specified federal crimes.
Mueller was appointed May 17.2017 by Rod Rosenstein, and we STILL do not have any explanation of the crime being investigated . Discovering an alleged crime AFTER the Special Council is appointed is like Alice in Wonderland's Queen of Hearts announcing the verdict before the charges . There is ONLY one thing that would justify the appointment of a special counsel: concrete evidence that Donald Trump committed a crime in connection with Russia’s election interference. IF there is that evidence ,it has never been revealed to the public. Instead the investigation nibbles around the edges putting a Trump operative in jail who was so insignificant to the campaign that no one in the inner circle knew who he was .
He lied to the FBI, pleaded guilty, but you knew that already. No need to refresh my memory, but to refresh YOURS, we have Flynn and Gates pleading guilty, and Manafort convicted of all kinds of white collar crimes and facing more charges in another trial. Not to mention the Russians he indicted, though Vlad will never give them up.Quote:
The got him ! Papadopoulos ;14 days in the slammer !! What did he do again ? Jay walk ?
and still no underlying crime to justify the appointment of a Special Council .
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Dm1VPLzXcAIXGsr.jpg
Must I remind you that this is Current Events not Old News Forum?
I love that pic! So true, and everyone admits she did it other than one sycophant on this board. Sad! Sorry. Just had to make the sycophant remark...somewhat in jest.
MUELLER FLIPS MANAFORT!
Links available everywhere.
Nothing Gates hasn't already told Mueller . Manafort worked for maybe a month for Trump and Mueller had to dig deep into Manafort's past to find wrong doing.Manafort pled guilty to crimes associated with his lobbying business with Ukraine before he joined the Trump Campaign and witness tampering after he left the Trump CampaignIf I was facing 80 years at his age I'd tell Mueller anything he wants to hear .
Hey did you read today about JFKerry colluding with the Iranians in direct violation of the Logan Act ?
Why doesn't he just play ring around the rosey
We don't know what Mueller knows, but we do know that the savvy Manafort had Russians he was reporting to and getting paid by while he worked for the Dufus, and was indebt to them. That alone bears greater scrutiny don't you think? For fact he pleaded guilty to past actions and current ones as well as when he was the Dufus campaign manager, as charged in the indictment. He gets a pass for any other wrongdoing that comes with his cooperation into anything Mueller asks him about.Quote:
Originally Posted by tomder55
Would YOU want to be someone who had ever done business with this person? I bet those that ever did are shaking in their boots.
he's being offered 10 instead of 80. Given that option I would sing any song Mueller wants me to sing . There is nothing Manafort can add about the so called "collusion " investigation that Manafort can add that hasn't already been said to Mueller by Gates .AND since Gates has been singing ,the only thing Mueller did that was new was charge a bunch of Ruskie pajama boys ,and transfered those cases to other Justice Dept divisions.
https://www.politico.com/story/2018/...ea-deal-823882Quote:
However, a source close to the defense told POLITICO, "the cooperation agreement does not involve the Trump campaign. ... There was no collusion with Russia.
What this deal REALLY does is spare Mueller the wasted time of another trial against Manafort . That this brings this ridiculous investigation closer to an end is probably a good thing. . I expect his close out argument will go public in time for an October surprise .He will not have anything on Trump ;but will cloud his report with innuendo that will be seen as borderline obstruction to the Dems ;who hope a "blue wave " will gain them a majority in the House . Then they can waste our time and tax dollars with a kangaroo court impeachment .
It doesn't work like that and you know full well that anything Manafort, Gates, or any other defendant says has to be verified. I guess given the events so far you cannot imagine any wrong doing by the Dufus or his sycophants. I also suspect there is MUCH more to learn and no matter who wins the election, actions will have to be taken.
I don't think this investigation is ridicules, I think it's sad we have to have one and keep finding out stuff we didn't know, or some of you didn't know. The Dufus had a long history in business that was a warning that was ignored and still is by his ardent followers. I think Mueller will uncover a whole lot on The Dufus and his crime family.
Afraid of losing your tax cut Tom? Why didn't you speak up about the repubs using our tax money to investigate Hillary, and not finding anything? Even Sessions hasn't picked up the mantle, at least not publicly.
I see no evidence of the alleged underlying crime (which in itself is not a crime) . I see no justification for the appointment of Mueller at all.Quote:
I guess given the events so far you cannot imagine any wrong doing by the Dufus or his sycophants.
I for one said that he is vulnerable with his business practices . That is not for a special council to investigate .Mueller was given a counter-intelligence investigation that had nothing to do with Trumps businesses .Quote:
The Dufus had a long history in business that was a warning that was ignored and still is by his ardent followers.
The intelligence community has found plenty of evidence that Russia conducted a cyber intrusion into our systems, including our voting and elections systems. They have been a recipient of stolen data, or they stole it themselves, and weaponized it during that election as well. That's the underlying crime and the question has always been if they had help or not and if so who. You said that in the last paragraph, and so far any other evidence into other matters have been referred to the proper jurisdictions. Like a traffic stop that ends up being a dope bust or warrant arrest. That's what happens when popo catch you riding dirty.
What, he should not investigate other crimes he finds along the way? That's not how that works and whose fault is it that a person has legal vulnerabilities? You should have voted for Hillary and let her face the music you righties thinks she deserves. As for the dufus, anything he says can be used against him in a court of law, and he is old enough to know that.
Good luck with Pence as the new prez. According to Grover Norquist all the right needs is someone that can sign the bills repubs put in front of him. You got that and elections do have consequences. Mueller having nothing on the dufus is a bet I wouldn't take.
The bet you should take is wheter Trump releases all the docs requested by the Intel committees . I've already stated that Mueller's final report will hedge his bets ,and that is where it will end . Trump holds the cards in the documents . Release them and the bodies of his tormentors will start to fall. The real criminal activity occured in the highest levels of the emperor's justice and intel agencies.if not in the emperor's White House itself
Yes, and who was the president when that was going on? Who was the guy who stood around and did nothing while the Russkies did that? He did about as much to stop that as he did to stop the disaster in Benghazi.Quote:
The intelligence community has found plenty of evidence that Russia conducted a cyber intrusion into our systems, including our voting and elections systems.
Three times prior to Mueller appointment, and once after, FBI & DOJ swore to FISA court that there was probable cause to believe Trump campaign officials were complicit in Russia’s cyberespionage operation against 2016 election. Now we find out from Lisa Page testimony to Congress that the FBI couldn’t find proof of Trump-Russia collusion before Mueller named special council . That means there was no basis for the Carter Page initial FISA warrants ;and no legal justification for the special council appointment .There was no crime or evidence of a crime as special counsel regulation mandates ;and Comey was instrumental and intentionally sought to weaponize the FBI, on his way out, under the pretense of a counter intelligence investigation focused on Trump to find a crime.https://www.nationalreview.com/2018/...a-application/
I don't care for Trump's personal life. I don't like his tweets and his inability to control his mouth. But I do hope that he will clean out the corruption left behind by years, or even decades, of business as usual in Washington.
Are you guys starting your own Fantasy Politics League now or what?
Yes. You have caught us red-handed.Quote:
Are you guys starting your own Fantasy Politics League now or what?
What on earth are you talking about? Sounds like the writing of a person who has run out of logical arguments.
Do you honestly think there is anything honest about the rhetoric here
Logic doesn't apply when you guys dream stuff up. The Dufus sycophants are falling like flies at a catfish picnic.Quote:
Originally Posted by jlisenbe
Glad to hear you finally admit that logic does not enter into your thinking.Quote:
Logic doesn't apply when you guys dream stuff up.
Maybe you misread my posts, or are feeling snarking. My point has been it's you who are not logic, nor quick to admit to the facts seeking instead to duck and dodge the issues we discuss. That usually means you got nothing. You have yet to explain all the prez's men going to jail, or any connections at all to the dufus, and Russia which is becoming very apparent that he and his family have obvious strong ties too.
You have yet to explain why the dufus has so many criminals on the payroll, or why they lied about their activities, which on the surface calls into question whether this was intentional, or just the dufus being a dufus in his vetting, or associations. Criminals, foreign and domestic, spies and Russian oligarchs with a mix of enough women to brew scandals and now we have his nomination for SCOTUS accused of sexual assault right before a vote to confirm.
Yet all you can do is keep holding your nose, defending the dufus words, actions, and behaviors, and holler HILLARY? That defies all logic!
If you want me to admit to the facts, you might try listing a few. Allegations are not facts. There are no proven connections to Russia, no one on the president's staff is a criminal, no Russian spies or oligarchs involved in the Trump campaign, and the allegation against Kavanaugh is likely another pathetic cheap shot by desperate dems trying to gin up public support against him.
You need to learn the difference between facts and the fantasies you drum up in your writing. Not the same thing.
Now Obama lying about Benghazi? Fact.
The Veterans Admin scandal? Fact.
Clinton's ridiculous email scandal? Fact.
The IRS scandal? Fact?
Cory Booker made to look like a fool with his "Spartacus moment"? Fact.
Kamala Harris looking ridiculous with her questioning of Kavanaugh? Fact.
Fast and Furious gun running scandal? Fact.
So there's some examples of facts for you to think about.
I am having trouble wrapping my head around his assertion that birth control pill = abortion. How did he prevent his wife from having more than two children?Quote:
allegation against Kavanaugh
Manafort! I'll stop there so you can process that FACT.Quote:
Originally Posted by jlisenbe
Porter was a wife beater, and his campaign cronies are liars who pleaded guilty, and cooperated to some extent with Mueller. The allegations of sexual assault though needs to be explored though I think your conspiracy mindset against her will prevail like it usually does. So lets have that public hearing and find out one way or another.Quote:
no one on the president's staff is a criminal, no Russian spies or oligarchs involved in the Trump campaign, and the allegation against Kavanaugh is likely another pathetic cheap shot by desperate dems trying to gin up public support against him.
LOL, listen to you when all your posts are nothing but rock throwing right wing NOISE berift of facts and understanding of the facts and the following is but an exampleQuote:
You need to learn the difference between facts and the fantasies you drum up in your writing. Not the same thing.
Now Obama lying about Benghazi? Fact. NOT a fact but a lie since he called it an act of terrorism that following MONDAY. Look it up!
The Veterans Admin scandal? Fact. It's still a scandal and that's a fact! Was before Obama, and that's another fact
Clinton's ridiculous email scandal? Fact. Only in your right wing loony mind that means NOTHING to anyone else.
The IRS scandal? Fact? Loony wingers who can't fill out simple applications?
Cory Booker made to look like a fool with his "Spartacus moment"? Fact. DISMISSED as irrelevant
Kamala Harris looking ridiculous with her questioning of Kavanaugh? Fact. DISMISSED as irrelevant
Fast and Furious gun running scandal? Fact. Scandalous more for incompetence than wrong doing.
You are a true right wing loony JL, and that's okay as far as I'm concerned. Nothing personal... just an observation.Quote:
So there's some examples of facts for you to think about.
Earth to Tal. Manafort pleaded guilty to crimes committed long before he was associated with Trump. You need to try a LOT harder than that.Quote:
Manafort! I'll stop there so you can process that FACT.
Now Obama lying about Benghazi? Fact. NOT a fact but a lie since he called it an act of terrorism that following MONDAY. Look it up! I did but you didn't. He sent out Susan Rice on five Sunday morning talk shows shortly after to say it was NOT an act of terror. How do you explain that???
The Veterans Admin scandal? Fact. It's still a scandal and that's a fact! Was before Obama, and that's another fact. Sounds like you admitting it's a fact. It went on during the Obama admin and he did absolutely nothing to hold anyone responsible.
Clinton's ridiculous email scandal? Fact. Only in your right wing loony mind that means NOTHING to anyone else. You call names when you have nothing useful to say. She destroyed evidence. End of story.
The IRS scandal? Fact? Loony wingers who can't fill out simple applications? That is the dumbest justification I have ever heard. They discriminated against conservative groups. It's a fact to everyone but you.
Cory Booker made to look like a fool with his "Spartacus moment"? Fact. DISMISSED as irrelevant. Only by you. How convenient.
Kamala Harris looking ridiculous with her questioning of Kavanaugh? Fact. DISMISSED as irrelevant. Again, only by you. How convenient.
Fast and Furious gun running scandal? Fact. Scandalous more for incompetence than wrong doing. People died, but since they weren't named Tal, I guess you don't care. Sad.
He pleaded guilty to all the charges... BEFORE, After, and during all the way up to 2016...Quote:
Earth to Tal. Manafort pleaded guilty to crimes committed long before he was associated with Trump. You need to try a LOT harder than that.
If you were tuned into other news feeds as I was then you would know of the riots, demonstrations, and protests at the other embassies on that date, both before and after 9/11/2012Quote:
Now Obama lying about Benghazi? Fact. NOT a fact but a lie since he called it an act of terrorism that following MONDAY. Look it up! I did but you didn't. He sent out Susan Rice on five Sunday morning talk shows shortly after to say it was NOT an act of terror. How do you explain that???
https://www.nytimes.com/2012/09/15/w...r-4th-day.html
Cairo and Benghazi Attacks: Two Sets of Fundamentalisms Unleash Havoc | TIME.com
But you can read this and save me the writing to debunk your right wing loony fake noise hearby called RWLFN, especially when the arthritis kicks up.
Neither has the dufus except privatize it since the real scandal is Not Enough Doctors, which is a system wide national problem.Quote:
The Veterans Admin scandal? Fact. It's still a scandal and that's a fact! Was before Obama, and that's another fact. Sounds like you admitting it's a fact. It went on during the Obama admin and he did absolutely nothing to hold anyone responsible.
Prove it prosecute it and stop hollering about it. You've had decades you now and you got zilch to show! Yeah, that's a fact.Quote:
Clinton's ridiculous email scandal? Fact. Only in your right wing loony mind that means NOTHING to anyone else. You call names when you have nothing useful to say. She destroyed evidence. End of story.
The IRS scandal? Fact? Loony wingers who can't fill out simple applications? That is the dumbest justification I have ever heard. They discriminated against conservative groups. It's a fact to everyone but you.
I love it when you wingers actually write your loony stuff for all to see.Quote:
Cory Booker made to look like a fool with his "Spartacus moment"? Fact. DISMISSED as irrelevant. Only by you. How convenient.
Kamala Harris looking ridiculous with her questioning of Kavanaugh? Fact. DISMISSED as irrelevant. Again, only by you. How convenient.
Fast and Furious gun running scandal? Fact. Scandalous more for incompetence than wrong doing. People died, but since they weren't named Tal, I guess you don't care. Sad.
As usual, your replies are filled with error and off the point. Still, this is getting us nowhere. I don't like the name calling, especially when I allow myself to get into it. It is unkind, and that is not how I want to live. You want to criticize Trump? Fine. I'll join you in some of it, but I won't call him or anyone else "Dufus". I will respect him for the office he holds the same way I did Obama. Just spare us the holier than thou idea that having voted for Obama and then Clinton somehow puts a person a rung higher up the moral ladder than the rest of us. They are every bit as dirty as he is. Dems don't like admitting that, but it's true, so try coming down here with the rest of us and admit that politics is generally a dirty business. I don't think it has to be, but there is a lot of money and power involved, and with people being prone to weakness, selfishness, and sin, it just frequently goes in that direction. I voted for Trump because I believed he would appoint SCOTUS judges that would not legislate from the bench and give us abortion on demand and compulsory participation in gay marriage. I hope he will build the wall. I hope he will bring sanity to the budget process. We'll see how that goes. At any rate, those are issues. You can disagree with them and that's fine, but don't act like you voted for saints because that's not true and I think you know that. Even if you don't, you are not a looney left winger. Wrong, but that's about it.
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