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Americans LOVE SS, Medicare, and Medicare part D after the ACA closed the donut hole for seniors. In addition people LOVE the elimination of caps on healthcare, elimination of denying coverage for preexisting conditions, and keeping kids on parents insurance until they are 26, and insurance companies can't cancel you when you do get sick.
So why do you want to repeal any of those things?
You're giving me polls from 2009?Quote:
Originally Posted by talaniman
Pa. advocates want single payer; 'Obamacare' doesn't go far enough | Physicians for a National Health Program
Quote:
But about five years ago, things changed. Goulden was diagnosed with chronic liver disease and as he watched his insurance premiums skyrocket, he said he realized why he had never before had a problem with the company - he had never been sick.
"They pushed me out," Goulden said. "I faced the possibility of losing everything I had worked for."
Quote:
"People worry about these death panels and a government rationing of care," Michael said. "They worry that a single-payer system eliminates their freedom of choice, but a single-payer actually gives more choice. Right now you are locked into a network of providers and can only get what they give you, anyway."
He said it is only logical to take a good look at which procedures work and which do not before paying for them, and the decision to do so in other countries has not hurt the health of its citizens.
Under a single-payer system, those who can afford experimental or elective procedures can always pay for those themselves or purchase additional private insurance. Health care in the U.S is already essentially rationed, he said, but it is rationed according to income level, as opposed to quality and need.
"We can't afford to pay for everything for everybody," Michael said, "and whether insurance companies ration it for their own profit or the government does it is a matter of semantics."
and the fact that "we" were lied to. Sorry ,that revelation is a game changer. Kalifornia had some 67,000 registered and a million people lost their heath care in the state that is held up as an example for the rest of the nation.
4 million out of 360 million, do the math and look in the mirror, what did YOU lose in the deal?
So one activist group in PA and two 4 year old polls is what you've got to prove "we" DO want government run health care? And you said my post had no basis in fact?Quote:
Originally Posted by talaniman
Quote:
Originally Posted by speechlesstx
That would have been a sensible option, but unfortunately it is not possible. There are many reasons for this. Too many to mention in one sitting.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tuttyd
Oh come Tutt, do tell, it seems some need to be reminded why you couldn't have a simple solution
I'm a believer in equality of opportunity, not mandated equity. I happen to know my liberal friends here are sports fans. In the real world 2 football teams begin with the same rules, the same number of players, a score of 0-0 and the team that takes advantage of their opportunity wins.
In their world if one team gets ahead, like the Saints did the Cowboys, they would try to level the playing field. Sorry Saints, you should not have been so greedy so Brees has to sit. If that doesn't make it fair then you lose Jimmy Graham, too. If after that you're still hoarding all the points there goes your cornerbacks until finally the hapless Cowboys tie it up and everyone is equal. Unless of course my liberal friends are Saints fans then they keep everyone in and pay off the referees.
p.s. and take 14 points from the Cowboys.
I believe you've finally found the formula for a Cowboy win ! Giants get that same equal playing field this week when the Green Bean Pickers come into town starting their 3rd string QB.
Good analogy, but have you noticed that the playing field is always level from start to finish? That's not always true in society. Too many ways to smile and keep people down and challenged, like a recession that some are more capable to withstand, or bailing out Wall Street, and ignoring Main St.
Even the Saint's and Sean Payton were punished for targeting players with money as an incentive for eliminating key opposition players. That wasn't fair or right for that to happen and I'm sure you agree, decidedly underhanded. It's one thing to stink on your own, quite another to put a skunk in some ones bed.
As I recall ,the bailout was a consensus solution by the establishment, with dissents and nay votes coming from conservatives .Quote:
or bailing out Wall Street, and ignoring Main St.
I believe my point was equality of opportunity. The analogy is how your side plays the game.Quote:
Originally Posted by talaniman
Harshness Alert
No its not, its about how you guys play the game. Underhanded is the word I used. You wrap yourself in family and flag and screw people when they want opportunity. Your M.O. is separate but equal, but its not equal, just separate.
What else can explain the holding the door open for rich guys to rob us, and misdirect the posse? What else can explain ignoring the many in need for the few that make noise? What else can explain calling a robber a job creator, while destroying the only thing that makes us EQUAL... the VOTE!
Don't bother denying it, we all know in the face of reality, you guys make more noise and holler louder, to hide the reality of your own actions. That's why you get stuff shoved down your throats because your mouth is always open, instead of your ears. (you could chew thoroughly like yo' mama told you, but you greedy ******* like to swallow things whole and blame us for you choking)
There can be no equal opportunity as long as we leave the definition just to you guys. Keep hollering, we ain't listening to the noise, we see what you're doing. Its no surprise that people VOTE against you, and what you are trying to do.
End of soapbox... for now!
The people vote for the liars who offer them free stuff.Quote:
Originally Posted by talaniman
People vote against the liars who will take stuff, and replace it with misery. I told you that you weren't good at listening, so keep the sour grapes, and excuses, and false spin for losing. AGAIN.Quote:
Originally Posted by tomder55
Denial of your own autopsy report ain't good reality.
Hello again, tom:
Your people vote for meanies who would let children starve in the streets.Quote:
The people vote for the liars who offer them free stuff.
excon
Spare me, your regime is at this moment looking for a way to carve out special treatment for unions, while disregarding federal law in favor of "green" energy companies. When are you going to get that's EXACTLY what you're b*tching about, noisier and louder?Quote:
Originally Posted by talaniman
Again with that lie, I feed at least 9 people every day plus what my tax dollars do. You want to take more of my money and force at least 4 of those people to fend for themselves. I feed others willingly and sacrificially, you do it by forcibly taking from one to give to another.Quote:
Originally Posted by excon
But speech with so many hungry you can't just feed the ones you want. You have to find a way to feed 'em ALL!
I know, you are doing YOUR part to make it better, I like that in you, it's an uphill battle. I DO get that.
Hello again, Steve:
And, I run a business. You're a good liberal, and I'm a good conservative.Quote:
Again with that lie, I feed at least 9 people every day plus what my tax dollars do.
Nonetheless, your PARTY is the selfish party. MY party, is the share in the wealth party.
excon
As we speak the rich guys are happily counting money as the Dow reaches 16,000, and you are trying to feed 9 people off your meager earnings that have reached any higher for a decade.
What's wrong with that picture?
It is not sharing if you're taking from one to give to another. It's not a difficult concept to understand. But thank you both for validating my football analogy.Next time one of you is beating me in fantasy football I as the generous benevolent commissioner will take some of your points and give to my team.Quote:
Originally Posted by excon
Hello again, Steve:
If you can enlist a majority of the powers that be to change the rules, then go ahead...Quote:
I as the generous benevolent commissioner will take some of your points and give to my team.
But, it's those pesky mechanical things about running the country that escape you. You seem to think the Democrats threw you on the ground and TOOK stuff from you. But, the laws that allowed them to DO that, were PASSED in congress, and signed by the president. That ONLY happens when a MAJORITY of the people WANT it. THAT is how it works here.
You DO understand the word MAJORITY, don't you??? Even IF you're NOT a member of the majority, when the majority SPEAKS, you're INCLUDED. When we say THE people spoke, YOU'RE included. I know you don't like that. Bummer for you.
excon
I guess you should go for itQuote:
Originally Posted by talaniman
Yahoo News Canada - Latest News & Headlines
You didn't sing that tune when you were in the minority, but hey the law is the law. Doesn't make it right OR fair does it? Especially when The Liar so brazenly picks and chooses what laws he wants to enforce and laws he wants to disregard or change by executive fiat without that congressional approval..Quote:
Originally Posted by excon
We don't do that here. We raise taxes on those lying job creators until they do their job. But you guys besides losing elections despite all that loot, are still protecting them.Quote:
Originally Posted by tomder55
They must pay the henchmen very well. What! You do the dirty work for free! :(
Or are you hoping to make a first class nation into a third world country? That wouldn't surprise me at all.
See Venezuela, Greece, etc. etc.Quote:
Originally Posted by talaniman
lol the progressive Dems are eyeball deep in protectionism and corporate give-aways despite their phony populist rhetoric. Again ;it was conservatives and some libertarians that cast votes against TARP ,and the budget busting stimulus .Quote:
Originally Posted by talaniman
Well Tom letting everything collapse and have everybody losing everything was just not a better idea, and it was more far reaching than just our country. Why would you wish ruin on everyone?
That was just speculation. I say that failure is a good part of the capitalist system. A 'moral hazard' is a situation where a party will have a tendency to take risks because the costs that could incur will not be felt by the party . In other words ,there was a general understanding that if the sh*t hit the fan ,that the government would invoke this bs 'too big to fail' and use the power of government to keep the insitutions afloat . Had there been instead an understanding that bad business decisions would put them out of business ,then they would've been more cautious in their approach. But that wouldn't have served the gvt either since it was the gvt that compelled them to take irrational risk in the first place.Quote:
Originally Posted by talaniman
My version is it was robbery through fraud, knowingly selling a defective product. Collusion between banks and rating agencies on a global scale... GREED. As the dust settles after the shock, they will be held accountable. Slowly but surely.
Quote:
Originally Posted by speechlesstx
Your "real world" view is precisely the problem. In the world professional sports equal opportunity is all important to elite athletes. You are given every opportunity to prove you can compete with the best. Coaches pick the best possible team from the players available. If you are not up to the standard then you don't get picked.
When it comes to life skills and success at living there are some people who could be considered 'elite'. They are the most successful and most prosperous members of society.
Some people want to play professional football because they believe they have the skills to be successful. Everyone has to play the game of life. We have no choice. All humans and far from equal in that regard. Some people in our society no matter how hard they try will never be successful at the game of life.
The analogy doesn't work
Socialism... its inherent virtue is the equal sharing of misery
(Churchill )
And the preferred way of life would be?Quote:
Originally Posted by tomder55
Where liberty is, there is my country.
(Benjamin Franklin )
The whole quote is:Quote:
Originally Posted by tomder55
The main vice of capitalism is the uneven distribution of prosperity. The main vice of socialism is the even distribution of misery.
He may have used that quote also but the complete Churcill quote I referenced is :
Socialism is a philosophy of failure, the creed of ignorance, and the gospel of envy, its inherent virtue is the equal sharing of misery.
Not on this side of the equatorQuote:
Originally Posted by tomder55
(Tutty)
It's all in a definition Tutt, what Churchill was speaking of was communism. Socialism is a society organised to bring the greater good to as many as possible whereas capitalism is a society organised to bring the greater good to those possessing the means of production.Quote:
Originally Posted by Tuttyd
Our implementation of liberal values and socialist economic theory has indeed brought the greater good to the greatest number without stopping capitalistic endeavour. Tom doesn't realise that such things are possible, for him it is all or nothing
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