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  • Aug 28, 2012, 08:35 PM
    Wondergirl
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by paraclete View Post
    something like that. There are still societies on this planet where sex outside of marriage is unacceptable. In these societies responsibility is taken seriously particularly to the family not to dishonour the family name. It is only in godless western societies there is this anything goes philosophy

    I was going to add no sex until marriage and that can happen only after the successful completion of an intensive 10-week training program, but figured that wouldn't go over well.
  • Aug 28, 2012, 08:51 PM
    paraclete
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Wondergirl View Post
    I was going to add no sex until marriage and that can happen only after the successful completion of an intensive 10-week training program, but figured that wouldn't go over well.

    No sex police please. You don't need a 10 week intensive training program to avoid sex or to participate in it. Nor is such a program desirable before marriage. What is needed is to go beyond mechanical sex education, which does nothing more than encourage experimentation and deal with moral and ethical matters so that both understand that personal gratification has very undesirable outcomes outside of a long term relationship. In other words less focus on biology and more focus on the importance of personal integrity and self discipline
  • Aug 28, 2012, 09:23 PM
    Wondergirl
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by paraclete View Post
    No sex police please. You don't need a 10 week intensive training program to avoid sex or to participate in it. Nor is such a program desirable before marriage. What is needed is to go beyond mechanical sex education, which does nothing more than encourage experimentation and deal with moral and ethical matters so that both understand that personal gratification has very undesirable outcomes outside of a long term relationship. In other words less focus on biology and more focus on the importance of personal integrity and self discipline

    Hmmm, like good sex ed and mentoring and modeling by parents?
  • Aug 28, 2012, 09:44 PM
    paraclete
    Less sex ed and more mentoring and modelling by all authority figures. It goes beyond the family, everything in western society is allowed to drag morals down to the lowest denominator. There should be greater censorship of media in all forms but particularly film to reduce presentation of casual sex for entertainment and profiteering. The whole society fails to deal with prostitution, deviance and depravity, with pornography and moral issues.
  • Aug 28, 2012, 09:48 PM
    talaniman
    More sex ed, for parents.
  • Aug 28, 2012, 09:51 PM
    Wondergirl
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by paraclete View Post
    less sex ed and more mentoring and modelling by all authority figures. It goes beyond the family, everything in western society is allowed to drag morals down to the lowest denominator. There should be greater censorship of media in all forms but particularly film to reduce presentation of casual sex for entertainment and profiteering. The whole society fails to deal with prostitution, deviance and depravity, with pornography and moral issues.

    Now with cable TV, any time of day there is swearing (*beep*) and references to sex even in family sitcoms. That used to be only in the late evening, if then.
  • Aug 28, 2012, 09:54 PM
    paraclete
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Wondergirl View Post
    Now with cable tv, any time of day there is swearing (*beep*) and references to sex even in family sitcoms. That used to be only in the late evening, if then.

    As I said, more censorship of media
  • Aug 28, 2012, 09:55 PM
    talaniman
    I guess half the marriages ending in divorce and parents return to working and dating has nothing to do with the morality thing.
  • Aug 29, 2012, 06:24 AM
    speechlesstx
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Magpie95 View Post
    I shutter to respond...
    People have sex. Contraceptives fail. A man makes the same mistake and he walks a way if he wants. But don't give a woman a choice...typical.

    Oh yes, the horror of having to take responsibility for the risk you took. Anything for an excuse. That should make one 'shudder.'
  • Aug 29, 2012, 06:38 AM
    speedball1
    Quote:

    I guess half the marriages ending in divorce
    Hey! I have the answer to that. Simple! DON'T GET MARRIED!
    My roomie, companion and best friend, Teresa Marie, and I have been hooked up for over 18 years and we love each other just as much now as when we first hooked up. In fact,
    More!
    One of my proudest boasts is that in all the years we've been together we have NEVER had a screaming fight where one of us said, " That's it! I'm done!"
    So there's the secret, Hey! Works for us. Just thought I'd share. Tom
  • Aug 29, 2012, 06:39 AM
    paraclete
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by speedball1 View Post
    Hey! I have the answer to that. Simple!! DON'T GET MARRIED!
    My roomie, companion and best friend, Teresa Marie, and I have been hooked up for over 18 years and we love each other just as much now as when we first hooked up. In fact,
    more!!
    One of my proudest boasts is that in all the years we've been together we have NEVER had a screaming fight where one of us said, " That's it! I'm done!"
    So there's the secret, Hey! Works for us. Just thought I'd share. Tom

    Buddy wait till 25 years
  • Aug 29, 2012, 06:42 AM
    paraclete
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by talaniman View Post
    I guess half the marriages ending in divorce and parents return to working and dating has nothing to do with the morality thing.

    Divorce is part of the morality thing, people not will to go through with the commitment they made, they model this for children and what do you get, a society that can't make commitment, and when did this get worse, right about the time women were liberated to abort their babies
  • Aug 29, 2012, 06:51 AM
    talaniman
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by speechlesstx View Post
    Oh yes, the horror of having to take responsibility for the risk you took. Anything for an excuse. That should make one 'shudder.'

    Contracepetives, and proper sex education on how to use them both man, and women, is the responsible way to explore, and experiment. This isn't 1960.
  • Aug 29, 2012, 06:54 AM
    talaniman
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by paraclete View Post
    divorce is part of the morality thing, people not will to go through with the commitment they made, they model this for children and what do you get, a society that can't make committment, and when did this get worse, right about the time women were liberated to abort their babies

    Abortion has been in practice for thousands of years, its just not something that was just invented.
  • Aug 29, 2012, 06:54 AM
    speechlesstx
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by talaniman View Post
    Contracepetives, and proper sex education on how to use them both man, and women, is the responsible way to explore, and experiment. This isn't 1960.

    For the third time now, what is "proper" education? But thanks for repeating my response to her that using contraceptives is a choice. It's still a risk, so accept responsibility for taking that risk - don't punish the natural result, the child.
  • Aug 29, 2012, 06:56 AM
    speedball1
    Quote:

    Buddy wait till 25 years
    And then it gets better?
  • Aug 29, 2012, 07:03 AM
    paraclete
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by talaniman View Post
    Abortion has been in practice for thousands of years, its just not something that was just invented.

    No it is something that recently became legal
  • Aug 29, 2012, 07:04 AM
    paraclete
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by speedball1 View Post
    And then it gets better?

    Yeah buddy they leave
  • Aug 29, 2012, 07:09 AM
    speedball1
    Quote:

    yeah buddy they leave
    Perhaps yours but not mine. We're joined at the hip. You should be sop fortunate, everybody should! Regards, Tom
  • Aug 29, 2012, 07:37 AM
    talaniman
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by speechlesstx View Post
    For the third time now, what is "proper" education? But thanks for repeating my response to her that using contraceptives is a choice. It's still a risk, so accept responsibility for taking that risk - don't punish the natural result, the child.

    Guess you missed it,

    Quote:

    The consequences of unprotected sex, and the procedure to not get pregnant. How/when to use an HPT, and having a family doctor for regular check ups, and have procedures available to prevent pregnancy, not just with contraceptives.*

    *See my posts about a routine D&C.
    Of course it helps to have insurance and most educated females do, even so, its especially important for financially challenged females to know where to go. The only problem is you religious types keep pushing for laws that make that really hard and don't seem to be interested in making sure a female is properly educated to protect herself.

    Of course your position of responsibility doesn't cover a guy stepping up, and
    Creates a helluva dilemma for females that do it your way, let things take a natural course. The problem with that is when they don't fit into YOUR idea of proper behavior, you make things hard by denying love a support.

    On one hand you make them fit your mold, but on the other hand you take away choice and options. In reality this only happens when females are dependent and have no resources, or support, and then both mother and child suffers while you self righteously remove logical choices for unrealistic ones.

    Even the ones who do the right things by YOUR standards are subject to the same hardships after a divorce. I get you lobby for unborn children, a noble endeavor, but unless YOU take responsibility for YOUR positions, by giving that love and support, you should mind your own business and take care of your own.
  • Aug 29, 2012, 08:00 AM
    Magpie95
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by speedball1 View Post
    Perhaps yours but not mine. We're joined at the hip. You should be sop fortunate, everybody should! Regards, Tom

    This is awesome! I couldn't agree more. Marriage doesn't guarantee a commitment and married people also have unplanned pregnancies.

    I myself don't need a to legally state I am married to feel 100% committed to my best friend and love of my life. We have talked about it and keep saying one day we'll get around to it. But really, neither of us cares one way or another. We talk about the future in terms of retirement, children, travel, etc... a life lived together. The traditional idea of marriage has been changing for some time. I have a great aunt and uncle who have been shacking up happily for 45 years or so.

    As far as birth control methods, yes both sexes are responsible. But the woman is in the unique position of being the one that gets pregnant. I was about to turn 20 when I found out I had gotten pregnant. I had been on the pill. I had only been with one person, and he and I had been together for sometime. My boyfriend urged me to get an abortion. But being a strong willed woman, I noted his opinion and considered all my options myself. I even looked into the RH shot I would need due to being one of the 15% that is negative for it. In the end, I decided to abort at 4-5 weeks. Afterward, I was relieved. And since, I have not regretted it once. I realize to some, I am a murderer. Fortunately, those opinions do not bother me. I took the course of my life in my own hands that day. I made a decision for myself and my body that is really no one else's business.
  • Aug 29, 2012, 08:15 AM
    speechlesstx
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by talaniman View Post
    Guess you missed it,

    The problem is Planned Parenthood drives sex 'education', they are the last people I want 'educating' our children.

    Quote:

    Of course your position of responsibility doesn't cover a guy stepping up, and
    Creates a helluva dilemma for females that do it your way, let things take a natural course. The problem with that is when they don't fit into YOUR idea of proper behavior, you make things hard by denying love a support.
    You assume way too much.

    Quote:

    On one hand you make them fit your mold, but on the other hand you take away choice and options. In reality this only happens when females are dependent and have no resources, or support, and then both mother and child suffers while you self righteously remove logical choices for unrealistic ones.

    Even the ones who do the right things by YOUR standards are subject to the same hardships after a divorce. I get you lobby for unborn children, a noble endeavor, but unless YOU take responsibility for YOUR positions, by giving that love and support, you should mind your own business and take care of your own.
    Oh pffffttt. I've had enough self-righteous spiels, you're just perpetuating myths. Let's deal with reality, not manufactured bullsh*t.
  • Aug 29, 2012, 08:22 AM
    talaniman
    You want facts, okay, woman and children suffer when you take away their choices, and forrce yours on them!

    That's the real fact to deal with. Its not your business in the first place, and when you make it your business you make it YOUR responsibility.

    That's reality.
  • Aug 29, 2012, 08:27 AM
    excon
    Hello again, wingers:

    You know, this is really simple. I speak for the ALL the liberals in the whole wide world. We'd AGREE with your stance on abortion if you didn't have to take away women's right's to accomplish it..

    excon
  • Aug 29, 2012, 09:01 AM
    speechlesstx
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by talaniman View Post
    You want facts, okay, woman and children suffer when you take away their choices, and forrce yours on them!

    Thats the real fact to deal with. Its not your business in the first place, and when you make it your business you make it YOUR responsibility.

    Thats reality.

    As I said way back, the idea that once the child is born we leave them to fend for themselves is a manufactured MYTH. That's reality.

    Funny how you libs are fond of telling us we're all in this together until it comes to abortion, then it's stay out of it, it doesn't affect you, it's none of your business. But let's see, I can't buy a Happy Meal in San Francisco, a 20 oz soda in New York, a medium-rare hamburger in North Carolina, swim in a river in King County, WA without wearing a personal flotation Device, smoke in my own home in some places, give my kid a homemade lunch in some schools - but you can kill your baby if you want.
  • Aug 29, 2012, 09:10 AM
    talaniman
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by speechlesstx View Post
    As I said way back, the idea that once the child is born we leave them to fend for themselves is a manufactured MYTH. That's reality.

    No its not its right wing policy to give to the rich by taking from the poor, just read Mitts plan. Oh, thats right, you refuse to!
  • Aug 29, 2012, 09:40 AM
    speechlesstx
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by talaniman View Post
    No its not its right wing policy to give to the rich by taking from the poor, just read Mitts plan. Oh, thats right, you refuse to!

    Do you not realize how silly that sounds, that a bunch of "rich, white guys" as your side often calls us, are going to go increase their wealth by taking it from people who have none. You can't get blood out of a turnip.
  • Aug 29, 2012, 09:43 AM
    talaniman
    So you read the plan right?? Stop dodging a simple question. That's the silly part to me. And the part about YOU being a rich white guy... I know better.
  • Aug 29, 2012, 09:47 AM
    Magpie95
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by speechlesstx View Post
    As I said way back, the idea that once the child is born we leave them to fend for themselves is a manufactured MYTH. That's reality.

    Funny how you libs are fond of telling us we're all in this together until it comes to abortion, then it's stay out of it, it doesn't affect you, it's none of your business. But let's see, I can't buy a Happy Meal in San Francisco, a 20 oz soda in New York, a medium-rare hamburger in North Carolina, swim in a river in King County, WA without wearing a personal flotation Device, smoke in my own home in some places, give my kid a homemade lunch in some schools - but you can kill your baby if you want.

    I agree. That's ridiculous for the government to monitor what we eat! When did the government become our parent? Trying to keep us from getting fat or getting cancer. Aren't we adults capable of making our own decisions and dealing with the outcome?
  • Aug 29, 2012, 09:49 AM
    speedball1
    Quote:

    but you can kill your baby if you want.
    Boy! Does that take me back to the old daze when I was busy busting religious wackos out side the clinic I worked at. I would have loved to get speechlesstx.locked into my sights. How many times have I heard those nuts scream, "DON'T KILL YOUR BAY-BEE"? Just like old speechless posted.
    Listening to "old spechless" rant and rave makes me homesick for the days when I had a job that was so much fun that I would have paid them to work there.
    SApeechless. If you would have stepped one foot onto clinic property you would have been mine and enjoyed the hospitality of The Sarasota City Jail. And I would have hoped that they put you in a cell with a 6'5" 300 pound dude named Bubba that really dug males.
  • Aug 29, 2012, 10:13 AM
    speechlesstx
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by speedball1 View Post
    Boy! Does that take me back to the old daze when I was busy busting religious wackos out side the clinic I worked at. I would have loved to get speechlesstx.locked into my sights.

    Funny, but you're the only one using threatening language and quite frankly, it pi$$es me off a little. You don't scare me goober.

    Quote:

    How many times have I heard those nuts scream, "DON'T KILL YOUR BAY-BEE"? Just like old speechless posted.
    Obviously you can't distinguish the difference between having a discussion on the internet and morons yelling at women at an abortion clinic. We've already had this discussion beginning here, so you can just put your baseless, rabid attempt attempt to paint me as a right-wing wacko aside and go harass someone else..

    Quote:

    SApeechless. If you would have stepped one foot onto clinic property you would have been mine and enjoyed the hospitality of The Sarasota City Jail. And I would have hoped that they put you in a cell with a 6'5" 300 pound dude named Bubba that really dug males.
    Pardon me, but this post of yours is full of more bovine excrement than the Texas panhandle. You seem a little overtaken with blind rage, perhaps counseling would help.
  • Aug 29, 2012, 11:12 AM
    excon
    Hello again, Steve:

    You asked a while ago whether we thought abortion would ever be illegal again, and you said you didn't think it ever would.

    I, however, think it's just one right wing Supreme Court Justice away.

    excon
  • Aug 29, 2012, 11:14 AM
    speechlesstx
    And I thought the Obamacare mandate would be overturned.

    Desperate for what?
  • Aug 29, 2012, 11:16 AM
    talaniman
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by excon View Post
    Hello again, Steve:

    You asked a while ago whether we thought abortion would ever be illegal again, and you said you didn't think it ever would.

    I, however, think it's just one right wing Supreme Court Justice away.

    excon

    No wonder the right wing is so desperate!!
  • Aug 29, 2012, 03:35 PM
    paraclete
    No war on women here

    PM gets lift on way to raise status of women
  • Aug 29, 2012, 09:07 PM
    talaniman
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by speechlesstx View Post
    Desperate for what?

    The house, the senate, the presidency, the courts and the full control of money and morality. And no prisoners
  • Aug 30, 2012, 06:17 AM
    speechlesstx
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by talaniman View Post
    The house, the senate, the presidency, the courts and the full control of money and morality. And no prisoners

    Dude, do you really think we're putting all our marbles in overturning abortion? We're not the ones making this about women's rights, you are.
  • Aug 30, 2012, 06:29 AM
    excon
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by speechlesstx View Post
    We're not the ones making this about women's rights, you are.

    Hello again, Steve:

    Not really... You WANT it to be about abortion, but you NEGLECT to mention that in order to achieve your goal, you have to DESTROY women's reproductive rights... You can't just talk about ONE side of the equation and IGNORE the other side...

    Well, that's why we're here.

    excon
  • Aug 30, 2012, 07:14 AM
    talaniman
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by speechlesstx View Post
    Dude, do you really think we're putting all our marbles in overturning abortion? We're not the ones making this about women's rights, you are.

    Women's rights
    Abortions
    Voting rights
    Poor people rights
    Church rights
    State rights
    Immigation rights
    Old peoples rights
    Governments rights
    Gay rights

    Conservatives vs everybody else's rights.
  • Sep 9, 2012, 06:03 PM
    speechlesstx
    Biden is obviously pro-woman...

    http://media.hotair.com/wp/wp-conten...bikers2-lg.jpg

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