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Originally Posted by Wondergirl

No, I was just born and raised there (in the hills with the hillbillies, spitting out watermelon seeds and eating fried chicken with flour weevils on it). I'm a Tar Heel.

This Tar Heel happens to be a member of Mensa. Do you know what that is? She spells words correctly too.

You do not know that. That has not been confirmed in any way, shape, or form.

You're opposing it. Looks like you have rights.

The neo-Nazis have paraded in the Chicago heavily-Jewish suburb of Skokie. Those neo-Nazis have rights. The Jews protested but didn't stop them.

President Bush, less than a week after 9/11, visited the Washington mosque and declared that Islam is a religion of peace.

There is a mosque less than 80 feet from where the plane flew into the Pentagon.

excon did, pages ago.

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So freaking what... can you NOT read english or can you simply not understand it.

The ONLY legitimate excuse for a NEW mosque is as as a VICTORY symbol honoring the Terrorists. THey have an old masque two blocks from that one... are Muslims to damn stupid to find it? I don't think so... It will be erected in Honor of Mohammed Attah and his band of terrorists... and they have suckered a small group of Americans into believing that is a great Idea.

Really, 80 feet... Bullsh*t. I know what is in the area the Plane hit on the various levels, and the functions performed there did not include a Mosque a Chapel, restaurant or a nudie bar, that is elsehere in the Pentagon. And it isn't a mosque... Its a multi-denomination Chapel. Different religions have services on different days and times... in the same space.

So, the lefties will drop their Protests to using the Cionfederate flag on the state flags and locally.

I'll be waiting to hear them bring court cases to reverse their previous fights to deny the southerners the right to their Heritage, symbolised in that flag. But I'm not going to hold my breath... the left lies about everything, they believe anything they are told to believe, much like a majority of the Muslims... why would their leaders lie to them...

And after all, as long as Iran is funding Obamas Agenda, ever wonder where he got his MILLIONS, Illinoise Senate doesn't pay that kind of money and he didn't inherit it... and he certainly didn't EARN it, a democrat would defend the right of Muslims to impose Sharia on the USA for a buck and fight anyone that stood up for American values.

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Originally Posted by smoothy

So freaking what....can you NOT read english or can you simply not understand it.

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You have very little respect for others than yourself, this much is obvious.

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Originally Posted by smoothy

The ONLY legitimate excuse for a NEW mosque is as as a VICTORY symbol honoring the Terrorists.

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It's not a mosque, it's more akin to a YMCA. BTW your writing is atrocious.

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The neo-Nazis have paraded in the Chicago heavily-Jewish suburb of Skokie. Those neo-Nazis have rights. The Jews protested but didn't stop them.

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No they did not... I commented on that way back on comment #53 (page 6 )

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Now for the record ,because some people may not be aware of the case , the Skokie, Ill. March did not actually happen in Skokie .The Nazis wanted to march there because there were a lot of holocost survivors in the town . SCOTUS ruled in favor of the Nazis.

But public pressure effectively applied ; the Nazi instead held 3 marches (poorly attended ) in the Chicago area and did not march in the area where it would've been most offensive.

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There is a mosque less than 80 feet from where the plane flew into the Pentagon.

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Nope . As Smoothy pointed out it is a room set aside for prayers. Anyone assigned to the Pentagon can use it ;including the Muslim members of the military .But it is not set aside exclusively for any religion.

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Originally Posted by smoothy

the left lies about everything, they believe anything they are told to believe,

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Hello kettle:

Now, THAT'S funny.

Pot

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Originally Posted by smoothy

So freaking what... can you NOT read english or can you simply not understand it.

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You didn't apologize. You continue to disrespect me and put me down.

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The ONLY legitimate excuse for a NEW mosque is as as a VICTORY symbol honoring the Terrorists.

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Can't have a new mosque? This location on Park Pl. is already being used as a mosque, overflow from another one farther away.

My town of 50,000 has three Catholic churches and maybe 15 (or more -- didn't Google for a list) Protestant ones. Too many?

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Really, 80 feet...

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It's a mosque when Muslims use it, which they do frequently. Do you how often they pray?

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Originally Posted by NeedKarma

You have very little respect for others than yourself, this much is obvious.

It's not a mosque, it's more akin to a YMCA. BTW your writing is atrocious.

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Big damn deal.. The lefties show no respect to others... and never have.

We saw the lefts respect the last 8 years when Dan Rather was caught fabricating a story to bash Bush... that many lefties refuse to beive he did. Typical lefty actions... they never let facts get in the way of Party propaganda.

Hell the dumb SOB in the White house after almost TWO years still blames everyone else for everything HE is Presidentm has been for almost 2 years... the Democrats have been in the Majority in Congress for the last 4 years. If the left had any brains they would remind dumbo ears he is president... this is HIS watchm, and HIS responsibility... NOT somebody that's been in TX retired for almost two years now.

So? I'm not an English Major... did I ever make the claim that I was at any point since I joined this site 5 years ago? I'm an Engineer not a writer or english teacher.

What they Plan to Build is a Mosque... just because they plan to put something else in it as well doesn't change its Main Purpose, a Memorial Mosque honoring the 9/11 terrorists. There is an Existing Mosque two blocks away... they HAVE an existing place of worship.


And Besides, who would a YMCA even it it were if it were a YMCA in an area with NO residential Housing nearby?

YMCAs are only near residential housing developments? I didn't know that! LOL!

YMCA near New York, NY, United States - Google Maps

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Originally Posted by tomder55

Nope . As Smoothy pointed out it is a room set aside for prayers. Anyone assigned to the Pentagon can use it ;including the Muslim members of the military .But it is not set aside exclusively for any religion.

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When Muslims pray, as smoothy said, a space is a mosque. Therefore, when this room is used as a place of prayer (how many times a day?), the space is a mosque.

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Originally Posted by Wondergirl

When Muslims pray, as smoothy said, a space is a mosque. Therefore, when this room is used as a place of prayer (how many times a day?), the space is a mosque.

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Really, More lefty claims... You said its 80 fweet from where the Plane hit the Pentagon... right smack in the middle of an area where OTHER offices are located and have been, no figure out WHAT offices they are, I'm not telling you. Its NOT a publicly accessible area where you claim it was. Must be Invisible... or like the Tardis.

Do you think that the Pentagon is the Size of a Walmart or a little larger?

When it towers 15 stories over the site of the attack and is funded in an opaque manner by foreign sources ,then I'll be concerned about a triumphant mosque at the Pentagon.

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Originally Posted by NeedKarma

YMCAs are only near residential housing developments? I didn't know that! LOL!

YMCA near New York, NY, United States - Google Maps

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Huge need for a YMCA near Office Building in a HIGH rent district... yeah, Manhattan needs another one of those.

The Mohammed Attah Memorial Mosque and YMCA. With a Dedication Plaque in the Lobby showing Paid for by Osama Bin Laden.

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Originally Posted by smoothy

Really, More lefty claims.....You said its 80 fweet from where the Plane hit the Pentagon

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"fweet"?

I'm a Republican.

Time for lunch. Bye for now.

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Originally Posted by Wondergirl

"fweet"?

I'm a Republican.

Time for lunch. Bye for now.

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You know what... THAT will be VERY hard to prove... Unless you are a well known and ranking member in the Republican party aparatus. Because you have done nothing but bash the right and justify everything the left dreams up.

Not everyone is a fanatical extremist as it concerns politics. Some are more in the middle.

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Originally Posted by smoothy

You know what....THAT will be VERY hard to prove......Unless you are a well known and ranking member in the Republican party aparatus. Because you have done nothing but bash the right and justify everything the left dreams up.

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My word isn't good enough for you? I do not lie. I am a registered Republican and have never been anything else.

I haven't bashed anyone. (The eggs for egg salad are cooking.)

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Originally Posted by Wondergirl

My word isn't good enough for you? I do not lie. I am a registered Republican and have never been anything else.

I haven't bashed anyone. (The eggs for egg salad are cooking.)

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Well being this is online... we only have what we say. And you are entitled to and should maintain your anonymity. Basically, I'm NOT asking or wanting you to fax me a copy of it.

Maybe the intent wasn't bashing... but it did certainly come across that way.

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Originally Posted by NeedKarma

Not everyone is a fanatical extremist as it concerns politics. Some are more in the middle.

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Far more are ideologs (many aren't radicals... just gullible) who believe only what they are told to believe, usually by people who have an agenda and are less than truthful . Like any religious radical those people are dangerous.

There is a term for them... I think it was Stalin that coined it... "Usefull Idiots".

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Originally Posted by smoothy

And Besides, who would a YMCA even it it were if it were a YMCA in an area with NO residential Housing nearby?

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The people who understand that sometimes it's easier to go on lunch, or on your break from work. The same people that know sometimes there ISN'T enough people in a residential area who need a YMCA--but PLENTY of people will stop on their way home from work.

I think you're forgetting that people WORK in this area--and many people (like me) won't go back out to work out, or get involved, or whatever, if we go home first. Once I'm home, I'm home--but stopping to work out on the way home (and psst--my YWCA is in a business district) is MORE than feasible, it's desirable. If my lunch were a little longer, I'd go on my lunch every day instead of on the way home.

It doesn't need to be in a residential area to be used. Just ask the members of the many churches ALREADY in the vicinity of Ground Zero.

Jefferson had a hand in the constitution I believe and he recognized that the rights of all citizens must be considered, law or no law. I'll take him at what he said, not what others guess he might have been thinking, 200+ years ago.

"Rightful liberty is unobstructed action according to our will within limits drawn around us by the equal rights of others. I do not add 'within the limits of the law' because law is often but the tyrant's will, and always so when it violates the rights of the individual."
Thomas Jefferson

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Originally Posted by smoothy

Far more are ideologs (many aren't radicals...just gullible) who believe only what they are told to believe, usually by people who have an agenda and are less than truthful .

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You just described Fox News and its followers!

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Originally Posted by smoothy

Maybe the intent wasn't bashing...but it did certainly come across that way.

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Your comments did too.

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Originally Posted by Synnen

The people who understand that sometimes it's easier to go on lunch, or on your break from work. The same people that know sometimes there ISN'T enough people in a residential area who need a YMCA--but PLENTY of people will stop on their way home from work.

I think you're forgetting that people WORK in this area--and many people (like me) won't go back out to work out, or get involved, or whatever, if we go home first. Once I'm home, I'm home--but stopping to work out on the way home (and psst--my YWCA is in a business district) is MORE than feasible, it's desirable. If my lunch were a little longer, I'd go on my lunch every day instead of on the way home.

It doesn't need to be in a residential area to be used. Just ask the members of the many churches ALREADY in the vicinity of Ground Zero.

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You know without having even visited those Churches... they are most certainly NOT all the same church... as in NOT all Catholic, not all the same demomination of protestant, and an FYI for those NOT protestant... there are BIG differences between the various Protestant denominations, IE Baptist, Methodist, Episcopal, etc...

Catholics all follow a common issued guidline for their Mass ( I know because Wife is catholic and I was married in her catholic Church and THAT required me getting permission from the Bishop as I wasn't catholic)... not protestant churches. They don't hold Mass they have services.. and that Pastor determines the topic, not the Archbishop.


Besides... how many of these churches you mention did not exist before 9/11.

We are not discussing the preexisting Mosque two blocks away from the proposed Mohammed Attah Memorial.

More Jefferson quotes --

Say nothing of my religion. It is known to God and myself alone. ~Thomas Jefferson

I never will, by any word or act, bow to the shrine of intolerance or admit a right of inquiry into the religious opinions of others. ~Thomas Jefferson

If there is one principle more deeply rooted in the mind of every American, it is that we should have nothing to do with conquest. ~Thomas Jefferson (Oooops.)

I do not find in orthodox Christianity one redeeming feature. ~Thomas Jefferson

Millions of innocent men, women and children, since the introduction of Christianity, have been burnt, tortured, fined and imprisoned; yet we have not advanced one inch towards uniformity. ~Thomas Jefferson, Notes on Virginia, 1782

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Originally Posted by smoothy

there are BIG differences between the various Protestant denominations, IE Baptist, Methodist, Episcopal, etc...

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The differences are minor. All believe in the Trinity, in Jesus Christ as Savior, heaven and hell, angels, good and evil, the Ten Commandments, God as Creator, Holy Spirit as Sanctifier, good works as evidence of faith. Differences are in rituals and practices. A Protestant could visit any Protestant church and feel comfortable with doctrine.

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Originally Posted by NeedKarma

You just described Fox News and its followers!

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Really.. ever notice that the Drive by media... (ALL the lefty Media) ALL use the same wording and talking points issued by the DNC, with the complexity, and sheer number of words in the english language its Impossible that all simutaneously pick the same phrases and topics day after day, week after week, month after month.

THe LEFT DEFINES the term Puppet.

Really.. are you aware of how badly CBS, ABC, NPR, NBC and CNN twist the stories?

I bet you believe what they report is exactly what happened all the time?

How many news stories have you seen first hand without ANY input of any news service to compare what you see on TV to what really happened? I have... a LOT. And a person how thinks the New York Times doesn't spin stories so hard it affects the orbit of the earth is an idiot.

Do you have any Clue how skewed CNN reporting is... Do you Believe Dan Rather didn't fabricate the so called evidence in his fabricated story about Bush he got fired by CBS over only AFTER it was made public through other sources?

I never get surprised by the level of gullibility of the left... actually I am surprised so few of them ever catch on to how they are played for suckers by the media and the DNC. They never question what they are told by any of them.

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Originally Posted by smoothy

Really..are you aware of how badly CBS, ABC and CNN twist the stories

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Does Fox twist stories?

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Originally Posted by Wondergirl

The differences are minor. All believe in the Trinity, in Jesus Christ as Savior, heaven and hell, angels, good and evil, the Ten Commandments, God as Creator, Holy Spirit as Sanctifier, good works as evidence of faith. Differences are in rituals and practices. A Protestant could visit any Protestant church and feel comfortable with doctrine.

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I partially disagree with that speaking as a Protestant, while you are correct in the basics that are actually shared with Catholics as well, except the concept of Saints, being we are all christians... There are VAST differences in rituals and practices between the Mennonites and say the Lutherines and Baptists. The Amish for example are Protestants. I for one was never comfortible in either an Episcopal or a Baptist church... as I was raised a Methodist for example. I'll accept SOME people might not feel that way however.

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Originally Posted by Wondergirl

Does Fox twist stories?

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not nearly as much as all the rest do, and certainly not as much as the left claims... there isn't a news service anyplace in the world that doesn't put their spin on a story... the question is how much spin.

That is based on events I saw numerous times over the years first hand in the course of my work... and later saw reported including the first Gulf War. I can't go into details so please don't ask.

Many dream up facts and present them as proof, Dan Rather got thrown under the bus when CBS got caught doing it, and he kept arguing his Bush Bashing story was factual when he KNEW it was fabricated lies... and CBS was caught doing what they have done a long time, He wasn't alone doing it... but he took all the blame.

And You know the stories about Reporters fabricating page one stories in the New York Times and the Washington post...

Easy to Google them up.

Don't get me started on the fiction the BBC likes to toss around these days...

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Originally Posted by Synnen

Six that I could find.

Plus a Baptist? church. Not sure of the denomination on the last one I found.

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Where did you get 6 from? All I had seen was 2 at most and the other buildings that are associated with the church like a rectory etc.

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Originally Posted by smoothy

I partially disagree with that speaking as a Protestant, while you are correct in the basics that are actually shared with Catholics as well, except the concept of Saints, being we are all christians....There are VAST differences in rituals and practices between the Memonites and say the Lutherines and Baptists. I for one was never comfortible in either an Episcopal or a Baptist church...as I was raised a Methodist for example. I'll accept SOME people might not feel that way however.

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Smoothy, as you can find vast differences between Christian sects, do you not find that there are vast differences between the sects of Islam?
Wouldn't you not want people of your sect or entire religion to be collectively associated with wrongdoings of another just because it was classified under the same religion? You see the ground zero mosque as a symbol of Muslim terrorist victory when you should know that the people who would be part of the mosque most likely don't even associate and have vast differences from the fundamentalist Muslims who attacked the trade center.

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Originally Posted by smoothy

I partially disagree with that speaking as a Protestant, while you are correct in the basics that are actually shared with Catholics as well, except the concept of Saints

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There are more differences than just saints. Catholics revere Mary in ways Protestants don't, i.e. the rosary; Catholics believe in Purgatory, and Protestants don't; Catholics have the Pope, and Protestants don't have a central ecclesiastical figure; Catholics observe private confession with a priest giving absolution; the Catholic Church supports monasteries and convents.

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Originally Posted by XOXOlove

Smoothy, as you can find vast differences between Christian sects, do you not find that there are vast differences between the sects of Islam?
Wouldn't you not want people of your sect or entire religion to be collectively associated with wrongdoings of another just because it was classified under the same religion? You see the ground zero mosque as a symbol of Muslim terrorist victory when you should know that the people who would be part of the mosque most likely don't even associate and have vast differences from the fundamentalist Muslims who attacked the trade center.

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There are three sects in Islam... and yeah, I believe there are big differences between them, no I don't know what they are precisely, but I know they exist.

Many of these fundementalists did not attend radical Mosqes, they attended main stream mosques where nobody said anything because they are taught its wrong to side against a fellow Muslim at any cost. Any other religion I know of does not do that. Individuals yes... not leaders and not as a doctrine.

1,300 years of Islamic History prove that Mosque IS intended to be and will be a victory symbol and honor the Terrorists.

There is an old and very true saying by philosopher George Santayana: "Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it."

Besides when was the last Jew, Christian, Budist... or what have you strap on a bomb to blow ip innocent people, or brainwash their children to do it. I'm referring mainly to Hamas there, but also to whack jobs in Afghanistan and Iraq.

Arriving late to this thread, I haven't read every post, so may duplicate someone's.

Whether a Mosque next to Ground Zero is good or bad is likely a moot question.

Bill O'Reilly and at least one union shop steward have said the same thing, that no union workers will touch the job.

That is probably likely.

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Originally Posted by Wondergirl

There are more differences than just saints. Catholics revere Mary in ways Protestants don't, i.e., the rosary; Catholics believe in Purgatory, and Protestants don't; Catholics have the Pope, and Protestants don't have a central ecclesiastical figure; Catholics observe private confession with a priest giving absolution; the Catholic Church supports monasteries and convents.

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Protestants actually do have a central Figure... The Archbishop of Canterbery, though he really doesn't function in the same manner as the Pope does in the Catholic Chruch, Certain denominations have a communion at easter others don't, while Catholics do it weekly, assuming they have been to confession..

I have a running joke with my wife... my wife would say I need ot go to confession when I did something bad...

I tell her no priest can let you off the hook for what you do... you answer to the man for everything you did before you get in the pearly gates.

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Originally Posted by Wondergirl

More Jefferson quotes --

Say nothing of my religion. It is known to God and myself alone. ~Thomas Jefferson

I never will, by any word or act, bow to the shrine of intolerance or admit a right of inquiry into the religious opinions of others. ~Thomas Jefferson

If there is one principle more deeply rooted in the mind of every American, it is that we should have nothing to do with conquest. ~Thomas Jefferson (Oooops.)

I do not find in orthodox Christianity one redeeming feature. ~Thomas Jefferson



Millions of innocent men, women and children, since the introduction of Christianity, have been burnt, tortured, fined and imprisoned; yet we have not advanced one inch towards uniformity. ~Thomas Jefferson, Notes on Virginia, 1782

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Since we are quoting Jefferson.

Ref:

What Thomas Jefferson learned from the Muslim book of jihad

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Originally Posted by smoothy

There are three sects in Islam...and yeah, I believe there are big differences between them, no I don't know what they are precisely, but I know they exist.

Many of these fundementalists did not attend radical Mosqes, they attended main stream mosques where nobody said anything because they are taught its wrong to side against a fellow Muslim at any cost. Any other religion I know of does not do that. Individuals yes...not leaders and not as a doctrine.

1,300 years of Islamic History prove that Mosque IS intended to be and will be a victory symbol and honor the Terrorists.

There is an old and very true saying by philosopher George Santayana: "Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it."

Besides when was the last Jew, Christian, Budist....or what have you strap on a bomb to blow ip innocent people, or brainwash their children to do it. I'm reffering mainly to Hamas there, but also to whack jobs in Afghanistan and Iraq.

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There aren't only 3 sects in Islam; there are 72- which is a lot. There are two main braches: Sunni and Shiite.
No one can assume that just because some terrorists came from non-radical mosques means that all mosques right here in our country contain terrorists and have bad intensions for their own country or home. Petaining to one of the last times a non-muslim blew up innocent people was in WWII when Americans blew up innocent civilians in Hiroshima. Of course it was an act of revenge and a time of war, but is it civil and did it make our country the "bigger nation?" No one said it was a terrorist attack, but it can still be classified as one. You make it seem is if all terrorists are muslims when in fact, it is not true. Also, not ALL Mosques are intended to be marked as places of victory as you say.
As for your quote, it is very true in any way you look at it. Some people don't really remember or care about anytime a group has been discriminated against and the consequenes of it.

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Originally Posted by XOXOlove

There aren't only 3 sects in Islam; there are 72- which is a lot. There are two main braches: Sunni and Shiite.
No one can asume that just because some terrorists came from non-radical mosques means that all mosques right here in our country contain terrorists and have bad intensions for their own country or home. Petaining to one of the last times a non-muslim blew up innocent people was in WWII when Americans blew up innocent civilians in Hiroshima. Of course it was an act of revenge and a time of war, but is it civil and did it make our country the "bigger nation?" No one said it was a terrorist attack, but it can still be classified as one. You make it seem is if all terrorists are muslims when in fact, it is not true. Also, not ALL Mosques are intended to be marked as places of victory as you say.
As for your quote, it is very true in any way you look at it. Some people don't really remember or care about anytime a group has been discriminated against and the consequenes of it.

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Dropping the bomb wasn't for revenge not a terrorist attatck. At the time that happened the countries were at war. The men were in uniform. And the Japanese had declared war on the U.S. How do you equate that to a terrorist attatck ?

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Originally Posted by XOXOlove

There aren't only 3 sects in Islam; there are 72- which is a lot. There are two main braches: Sunni and Shiite.
No one can asume that just because some terrorists came from non-radical mosques means that all mosques right here in our country contain terrorists and have bad intensions for their own country or home. Petaining to one of the last times a non-muslim blew up innocent people was in WWII when Americans blew up innocent civilians in Hiroshima. Of course it was an act of revenge and a time of war, but is it civil and did it make our country the "bigger nation?" No one said it was a terrorist attack, but it can still be classified as one. You make it seem is if all terrorists are muslims when in fact, it is not true. Also, not ALL Mosques are intended to be marked as places of victory as you say.
As for your quote, it is very true in any way you look at it. Some people don't really remember or care about anytime a group has been discriminated against and the consequenes of it.

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Hiroshima was a legitimate military target... and targeting cities at that time was an accepted and standard wartime practice. THe Japanese did it all over Asia... the Germans did it... the Russians did it... the USA had every right and in fact was correct in drioppuing not one but both Bombs on Japan.

Like I said... the History of Islam has example after example for 1,300 yearsa of building mosques as a victory memorial. THey even have a name for the Practice but I can't remember what it is.

I've seen NOTHING that indicates Islamic leaders have shifted their motivations... in fact they have demonstrated a 7th century mindset time and time again... maybe not all members may think that ( and that IS entirely possible)... but it's the leaders most blindly follow in whatever they are told to do.

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Originally Posted by califdadof3

Dropping the bomb wasnt for revenge not a terrorist attatck. At the time that happened the countries were at war. The men were in uniform. And the Japanese had declared war on the U.S. How do you equate that to a terrorist attatck ?

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I see it equivalent to a terriost attack because of the fact that it targeted civilians, not mainly othe Japanese soldiers. If Iraqis came here in uniform and bombed us, it would most likely be considered a terrorist attack.