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Originally Posted by paraclete

So where does Baltimore place everyone a mob of young people protesting police violence goes entirely over the top.

Are their actions seen as justified, did the police go too far?

This problem of community sentiment needs to be addressed by a different model since it is clear the existing model is failing

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We have no idea if it is actual community sentiment or if it is something completely different.



Craigslist Ad Recruited Paid Protesters to Oppose Abortion Legislation in Texas | CNS News


Obama has DHS agents in Ferguson; pays protesters to justify martial law | Fellowship of the Minds

Well we won't get the actual news from those sad far-right web sites will we?

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Originally Posted by NeedKarma

Well we won't get the actual news from those sad far-right web sites will we?

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CNS is almost perfectly as far to the right as CNN is to the left, so check both. Slate and WND is another pair equally as biased. WaPo and NYT you can balance with Drudge and Breitbart. It's actually refreshing to see the same story slanted one way then the other.

WND and Breitbart are embarrassing to say the least.

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Originally Posted by NeedKarma

WND and Breitbart are embarrassing to say the least.

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As are the propaganda sheets the NYT and Washington Post have become.

So the problem isn't the people or the police it is the media, nice deflect

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Originally Posted by paraclete

So the problem isn't the people or the police it is the media, nice deflect

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Deflect? More of a sidetrack, as these threads so very often take off on. The problem in the U.S. is an "us versus them" attitude on both the police' and public's parts fostered and emphasized by a biased media.

So us v them, law and order v lawlessness, vigilante v justice, and no one has mentioned the underlying causes, hopelessness and poverty and a deeply entrenched racism. I heard some one say the answer was the particular brand of US capitalism and I said to myself yeah that will work it has done so well in creating this situation so it should be able to unwind it. You can see I'm unimpressed by such worthless arguments. The media isn't the problem even if it needs to temper its commentaries, the media haven't shot anyone, the media hasn't used excessive force, the media hasn't burned any buildings. The problem is there is an inconvenient truth that is playing out on the media and this inflames the sense of injustice particularly among the uneducated and this isn't helped by people like Sharpton.

It is apparent that the whole nature of policing these neighbourhoods needs to change and the confrontational nature of the interchange must give way to something else. Surely it is patiently obvious that a predominiently minority population might be better policed by members of that minority, if for no other reason than to remove the possibility of racial discrimination. That woman belting her son in the head shows you the way this must be dealt with, with engaged parenting, enforced curfews for certain groups of youth. A little one on one TLC. Not the police belting them in the head but the parents and community unleashed on all street crime.There needs to be enforced laws regarding lawful assembly and if that means the local gang can't hang out tough. Who knows who speeds in the streets, you don't need a cop to catch them just a set of community wheel clamps, who knows who deals in the streets but the community doesn't get involved because no one backs them up.

What you have is a huge problem with prception running roughshot over the masses. It seems that they want to define people into boxes and stereo types and hold them down in those confinements forever. It is time to break the mold and start seeing how things really are and not just through rose colored glasses.

If you have community involvement then you can have community standards. When you try to hide in the shadows then your only left with bits of sunshine. It is not poverty driven as many are trying to make it out to be. It is more about a weakened spirit then anything else. Those that profit from that wish to keep them down as long as possible as that is where they derive their income from. It is time to stop and to force change so you can break the preception.

What perception can you have when six cops are charged with murder. It is reported they had no probable cause for the arrest. I think the perception is clear. Sure there are social problems that underly mob violence but don't tell me there isn't employment for these people somewhere when you have millions of illegal immigrants. This weakened spirit argument suggests a slave will always be a slave. Perhaps you are right an oppressed people in another place would have taken up arms

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Originally Posted by paraclete

don't tell me there isn't employment for these people somewhere when you have millions of illegal immigrants

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Those immigrants are willing to do the crummy low-paying jobs that both white and black citizens refuse to do. Now what?

Yes that system of capitalistic low wages doesn't work for half the population does it? Some inversion is necessary where those crummy jobs need to be higher paid and the fat cat executives need to get less for sitting on their duffs. I know some one will yell communist but in that society everyone worked, no time for protests and riots. You need to get rid of this glass half full attitude the glass is not half full it actually has little in it but much froth giving the illusion of volume. 10% of your population own the place and have the wealth another 40% might be capable of saying they are employed but then what do the rest do?

I was in a for-profit health-care rehab last year -- very understaffed, one nurse and one CNA for every 15 patients, many of whom needed two people to transfer them to a wheelchair, a toilet, and help them bathe, exercise, etc. It took 20-45 minutes for call lights to be answered. The staff was stressed and very tired by the end of the shift. On weekends the ratio was too often 2:25. On the Alzheimer's floor, the ratio was even greater (yet those patients needed even more hands-on care).

Only so many patients on Medicaid are allowed in at one time. The majority are private insurance + Medicare or private pay. The daily cost is $275 and up. I see a need for more nurses and CNAs. Also, more facilities like this are being built in this area. That means more housekeepers and kitchen help as well as medical staff. And our population is aging with people living longer, thanks to medical science, than ever before. I think the problem here is in my first sentence -- "for-profit." So what's the solution for the understaffing?

Medical systems in a number of places need overhaul. I was in a private hospital myself last week. Many of the patients were elderly having major surjery. I couldn't say the care was more than adequate and the food appalling. We were eating the same food as the age care facility next door.The system worked because of compenent staff with many years experience; I doubt there was a nurse under forty but no use complaining as an alternative with long waiting lists is what you get under subsidised medicine. It seems we focus on treating the symptom and not the cause since it is easier. I cannot imagine what it is like for patients with serious age related conditions requiring long term care a week was enough for me.

But that facility was probably being billed at $500 a day, I havn't seen the surgeon's bill yet but I expect a co-pay of $2,000. Now if I had gone to a training hospital I might have got out without cost. Couldn't do that as the surjery was overdue.

The system needs to have greater emphasis on prevention with the youger people actively encouraged to take better care of themselves throughout life. How you do this at the poorer end is difficult and a matter of education so more emphasis on life skills and less on academic pursuits that don't carry through for many people.

Where I come from the system is geared to spitting out university entrance candidates and the kids are stuck in the system, no early leavers so if you reach the end without a place you are still in a system of work or continuing education but none of it is life skills. Standing around on street corners is not an option here but it doesn't stop people dropping between the cracks

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no one has mentioned the underlying causes, hopelessness and poverty and a deeply entrenched racism.

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or in Baltimore's case ,over 50 years of Democrat rule . How do the Democrats account for the $ billions spent on anti-poverty programs throughout the nation ? They can't ;so they rely on their intentions being good.

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Originally Posted by paraclete

What perception can you have when six cops are charged with murder. It is reported they had no probable cause for the arrest. I think the perception is clear. Sure there are social problems that underly mob violence but don't tell me there isn't employment for these people somewhere when you have millions of illegal immigrants. This weakened spirit argument suggests a slave will always be a slave. Perhaps you are right an oppressed people in another place would have taken up arms

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Charging the cops with murder only shows that there may be a political bias to quell the violence that is taking place on the streets and conveniently fit the narrative.

Slaves will be slaves as long as they are held down and held in place. The democratic party with their social engineering has done more harm then good in moving people from poverty to productive citizens. The community itself also needs to take the blame and buying into the free life by way of subjugation.

They can be employed if they wish to but they also need a change in attitude for that change to happen. The welfare crowd needs to be taken off of services to a point that it provides only survival and not luxury.

State's Attorney Marilyn Mosby's husband is a member of the city council .His district is where the rioting took place. She also has political and personal relations with Billy Murphy ,the attorney representing Freddie Gray . He contributed $4,000 to her campaign. He also has been her mentor . For these reasons she has a conflict of interest in the case and should've recused herself .

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Originally Posted by Wondergirl

I was in a for-profit health-care rehab last year -- very understaffed, one nurse and one CNA for every 15 patients, many of whom needed two people to transfer them to a wheelchair, a toilet, and help them bathe, exercise, etc. It took 20-45 minutes for call lights to be answered. The staff was stressed and very tired by the end of the shift. On weekends the ratio was too often 2:25. On the Alzheimer's floor, the ratio was even greater (yet those patients needed even more hands-on care).

Only so many patients on Medicaid are allowed in at one time. The majority are private insurance + Medicare or private pay. The daily cost is $275 and up. I see a need for more nurses and CNAs. Also, more facilities like this are being built in this area. That means more housekeepers and kitchen help as well as medical staff. And our population is aging with people living longer, thanks to medical science, than ever before. I think the problem here is in my first sentence -- "for-profit." So what's the solution for the understaffing?

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Don't get me started!

No, no, the problem isn't only in the "for profit" facilities. I currently have 9 nurses who work 3 areas (labor & delivery, nursery and postpartum) who are expected to work 2 shifts (7am - 7pm and 7 PM - 7 am) seven days a week. I work in a not for profit facility.

It all began with the inauguration of the current administration. Thanks to Nobama, I am 50 years old, raising a 13 year old, and working 58 - 72 hours a week, where before this administration I was comfortably working 36 hour work weeks.

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Originally Posted by tomder55

or in Baltimore's case ,over 50 years of Democrat rule . How do the Democrats account for the $ billions spent on anti-poverty programs throughout the nation ? They can't ;so they rely on their intentions being good.

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Yes apparently this neighbourhood has been part of an urban renewal program but it is also part of the rustbelt, you can't live on past glories or bring back your industries fron China but I doubt these people would work the way the chinese work, they have been educated to expect something different

Fifty years ago, Lyndon Johnson said “We seek … not just equality as a right and a theory but equality as a fact and equality as a result.”
In pursuit of equality of result there began one of the most massive transfers of wealth in all history. Trillions of tax dollars were plunged into programs of social uplift and education reform . The results in black America? ........
The illegitimacy rate was 23 percent in 1965, it is 72 percent now, and the gap between black and white test scores endures. In the black community, the dropout rate, crime rate, are now far higher now than in 1965.
Their work ethic has been eviscerated by an endless flow of social welfare benefits. Those benefits have often removed the incentive to find or hold a job, and the necessity to have a father in the home.