Ava Isabella Stinson was born last week at St. Joseph's hospital in Hamilton, Ontario. Weighing only two pounds, she was born 13 weeks premature.Without immediate care should would be dead today. There was no time to wait on Canada's waiting list for admittance into a neonatal intensive care unit... nor were there any other hospitals in the Province she could be admitted into. Hamilton's unit is closed to new admissions half the time. Special needs infants are usually sent to the U.S.for care She was transported to a Buffalo NY hospital to suffer under our sub-par system.

TheSpec.com - Local - Parents separated from ill preemie

You make a good point that people are overlooking, while the talk is centered around providing "health care" it's really about insurance. That's why I keep asking everyone that claims people go without health care just exactly who does? Anyone can get health care in this country, the beef is actually centered on people without health insurance and the ultimate goal is single payer 'insurance' with the government in complete control of our health care. Am I right?

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Originally Posted by speechlesstx

You make a good point that people are overlooking, while the talk is centered around providing "health care" it's really about insurance. That's why I keep asking everyone that claims people go without health care just exactly who does? Anyone can get health care in this country, the beef is actually centered on people without health insurance and the ultimate goal is single payer 'insurance' with the government in complete control of our health care. Am I right?

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You are absolutely right, and I am as adamantly opposed to a health insurance plan of any sort, single payer or otherwise. I do, however, disagree with you that anyone can get health care in this country. If they are critical, they might be able to get health care if they show up to an emergency room, but we don't have enough providers per capita to insure everyone can get health care. The reason I say they might is that there are trauma centers in this country, such as Parkland in Dallas, where people are triaged based on how critical their need for care. I am sure some have died waiting for others ahead of them.

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Originally Posted by amdeist

You are absolutely right, and I am as adamantly opposed to a health insurance plan of any sort, single payer or otherwise. I do, however, disagree with you that anyone can get health care in this country. If they are critical, they might be able to get health care if they show up to an emergency room, but we don't have enough providers per capita to insure everyone can get health care. The reason I say they might is that there are trauma centers in this country, such as Parkland in Dallas, where people are triaged based on how critical their need for care. I am sure some have died waiting for others ahead of them.

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Everyone that shows up in an ER in Texas gets health care. It's the law here. Is it the best system? No, as evidenced by the number of people in ER's with a cold, but no one gets turned away. Triage is a fact of life in any case.

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Originally Posted by tomder55

Ava Isabella Stinson was born last week at St. Joseph's hospital in Hamilton, Ontario. Weighing only two pounds, she was born 13 weeks premature.Without immediate care should would be dead today. There was no time to wait on Canada's waiting list for admittance into a neonatal intensive care unit....nor were there any other hospitals in the Province she could be admitted into. Hamilton's unit is closed to new admissions half the time. Special needs infants are usually sent to the U.S.for care She was transported to a Buffalo NY hospital to suffer under our sub-par system.

TheSpec.com - Local - Parents separated from ill preemie

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You people make me sick. The little thing is now happily reunited with her parents and doing well, thanks to the hospital south of the border. So what the heck is your point. You latch on to one instance, and the Canadian side did all they could to find, hone onto and transport that baby to a hospital on your side who could care for her properly because she was so absolutely tiny.. OHIP will cover the baby's care, transport, neonatal and all. So, what is your point? Our health care system will cover the pediatric care for this infant, an astronomical fee, given the exchange rate of l5 cents on the dollar, by today's standards and the parents need not worry about anything other then seeing her, feeling her and loving her.

Can you say, in this instance, that a similar situation would be paid for under your non existent system?

All was done for the baby and will be done AND PAID FOR

Get a life and stop complaining and finding fault.

Tick

Nope. We don't want it in America. The government has no place sticking its nose in our health care system. As it is, the government already has its fingers in too many places where it shouldn't.

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Originally Posted by s_cianci

Nope. We don't want it in America. The government has no place sticking its nose in our health care system. As it is, the government already has its fingers in too many places where it shouldn't.

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I agree with you, I've seen what your government does and it shouldn't be in charge of much.

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Originally Posted by s_cianci

Nope. We don't want it in America. The government has no place sticking its nose in our health care system. As it is, the government already has its fingers in too many places where it shouldn't.

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Speak for yourself! I'm totally with tick and the Canadian way.:mad:

The truth is revealing isn't it ? What I posted isn't an isolated incident but a common occurrence. Yeah we pay a price I guess .But there is no scarcity of needed service here. Here the exception is people who's care is inadequate .That can be addressed.

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Originally Posted by tomder55

The truth is revealing aint it ? .

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Hello tom:

Look. I'm an easy guy. I want the truth, but it's difficult to see it behind all the BS. I hate the government. I don't want 'em to run anything... But, we've got some Canadians here, and they LIKE their system. I don't think they're liars. In fact, I think they know THEIR system better than you do. So, until I hear ONE of 'em mirror what you've said, I'm going to believe ''em.

That's just me.

excon

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Originally Posted by tomder55

The truth is revealing aint it ? What I posted isn't an isolated incident but a common occurance. Yeah we pay a price I guess .But there is no scarcity of needed service here. Here the exception is people who's care is inadequate .That can be addressed.

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I think its great that the originating hospital found an adequate way to deal with the small baby which had the correct facilities. I don't have a problem with that. I don't know if it's a common occurrence, or not, I can only read the papers as you do and I read this to in the Toronto Star a few days ago. I read also noted that the parents were not allowed to go with their babyacross the US border because they didn't have passports. I don't think any Canadian here has taken issue with that aspect of an emergency situation gone wrong.

My point is tomder55, her very expensive hospital care will be completely covered by OHIP while she is there, they also covered expensive transportation to the hospital. Her parents will not have to foot the bill which would probably bankrupt them if they tried.

Tick

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Originally Posted by tickle

I think its great that the originating hospital found an adequate way to deal with the small baby which had the correct facilities. I dont have a problem with that. I dont know if its a common occurrence, or not, I can only read the papers as you do and I read this to in the Toronto Star a few days ago. I read also noted that the parents were not allowed to go with their babyacross the US border because they didnt have passports. I dont think any Canadian here has taken issue with that aspect of an emergency situation gone wrong.

My point is tomder55, her very expensive hospital care will be completely covered by OHIP while she is there, they also covered expensive transportation to the hospital. Her parents will not have to foot the bill which would probably bankrupt them if they tried.

tick

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And I believe no one should have to go bankrupt to pay for their health care. And to those of you that say it's the law for the US to provide health care regardless of ability to pay. Well that may be true AFTER everything you have is gone. You may get well, but you've got nothing else. Comforting huh?

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Originally Posted by cozyk

And I believe no one should have to go bankrupt to pay for their health care. And to those of you that say it's the law for the US to provide health care regardless of ability to pay. Well that may be true AFTER everything you have is gone. You may get well, but you've got nothing else. Comforting huh?

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We’ve already been down that road, my daughter had nothing to begin with and she received excellent care from ICU staff, private practice internists, nephrologists, pulmonologists and one hell of a gynecological oncologist. Maybe your state sucks but in Texas NO ONE is turned away REGARDLESS of financial status, it’s the law. I know firsthand that our private hospital, consistently named one of the best in the nation, will work with those who can’t afford to pay their bill and will either discount it according to ability to pay and circumstances or just write it off. All you have to do is ask.

If there’s a problem it’s in places like where Michelle Obama and crew were busy dumping poor patients on other hospitals.

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Originally Posted by cozyk

And I believe no one should have to go bankrupt to pay for their health care. And to those of you that say it's the law for the US to provide health care regardless of ability to pay. Well that may be true AFTER everything you have is gone. You may get well, but you've got nothing else. Comforting huh?

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Medicare and Medicaid are designed for those who are low/no-income, or are disabled and unable to afford health insurance. If anyone is going bankrupt because of medical bills, it is because Medicare and Medicaid have failed, not the private health care system. The failure is in the GOVERNMENT-RUN SYSTEM not the insurance companies.

So your solution is to make more of the government-run system that has failed these people in the first place, and extend it to everyone...

Brilliant. Let's do something that already doesn't work... but more of it. That'll fix it.

Elliot

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Originally Posted by ETWolverine

If anyone is going bankrupt because of medical bills, it is because Medicare and Medicaid have failed, not the private health care system. The failure is in the GOVERNMENT-RUN SYSTEM not the insurance companies.

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Oh really?

Medical Bills Prompt More Than 60% of U.S. Bankruptcies - Health News - Health.com

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This year, an estimated 1.5 million Americans will declare bankruptcy. Many people may chalk up that misfortune to overspending or a lavish lifestyle, but a new study suggests that more than 60% of people who go bankrupt are actually capsized by medical bills. Bankruptcies due to medical bills increased by nearly 50% in a six-year period, from 46% in 2001 to 62% in 2007, and most of those who filed for bankruptcy were middle-class, well-educated homeowners, according to a report that will be published in the August issue of The American Journal of Medicine.

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NCHC | Facts About Healthcare - Health Insurance Costs

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A recent study by Harvard University researchers found that the average out-of-pocket medical debt for those who filed for bankruptcy was $12,000. The study noted that 68 percent of those who filed for bankruptcy had health insurance. In addition, the study found that 50 percent of all bankruptcy filings were partly the result of medical expenses.9 Every 30 seconds in the United States someone files for bankruptcy in the aftermath of a serious health problem.

• A new survey shows that more than 25 percent said that housing problems resulted from medical debt, including the inability to make rent or mortgage payments and the development of bad credit ratings.10
• About 1.5 million families lose their homes to foreclosure every year due to unaffordable medical costs.

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Originally Posted by speechlesstx

We’ve already been down that road, my daughter had nothing to begin with and she received excellent care from ICU staff, private practice internists, nephrologists, pulmonologists and one hell of a gynecological oncologist. Maybe your state sucks but in Texas NO ONE is turned away REGARDLESS of financial status, it’s the law. I know firsthand that our private hospital, consistently named one of the best in the nation, will work with those who can’t afford to pay their bill and will either discount it according to ability to pay and circumstances or just write it off. All you have to do is ask.

If there’s a problem it’s in places like where Michelle Obama and crew were busy dumping poor patients on other hospitals.

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If you have nothing to begin with, like your daughter, you are in better shape than if you have "some" to begin. The "some" will be taken, before the hospital will not be paid.

There is A WHOLE LOT of personal loss that will occur BEFORE you get the freebie. I've never heard anyone go to the ER, the doctor's office, or into the hospital say this. " Listen doc, I have some money but it has tags attached to it such as food, shelter, transportation, day care so I can work, etc. I could pay you or fall short on those other things. So... could you just write off this inflated charge so I can be well AND have money to pay for my other living expenses?" I've "asked" as you say. This does not have to be major medical stuff. This can be a regular dr. visit that still puts them in a position to weigh their costs vs. suffering.. I've avoided med treatments in the past, waited out my illness, etc. because even though I could pay, I thought I should reserve the money for when my kids were sick or my car had a problem, etc..

You keep addressing the most dire cases, such as your daughter. There is a lot of gray area that you don't address.

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Originally Posted by cozyk

If you have nothing to begin with, like your daughter, you are in better shape than if you have "some" to begin. The "some" will be taken, before the hospital will not be paid.

There is A WHOLE LOT of personal loss that will occur BEFORE you get the freebie. I've never heard anyone go to the ER, the doctor's office, or into the hospital say this. " Listen doc, I have some money but it has tags attached to it such as food, shelter, transportation, day care so I can work, etc. I could pay you or fall short on those other things. So... could you just write off this inflated charge so I can be well AND have money to pay for my other living expenses?" I've "asked" as you say. This does not have to be major medical stuff. This can be a regular dr. visit that still puts them in a position to weigh their costs vs. suffering.. I've avoided med treatments in the past,, waited out my illness, etc. because even though I could pay, I thought I should reserve the money for when my kids were sick or my car had a problem, etc..

You keep addressing the most dire cases, such as your daughter. There is a lot of gray area that you don't address.

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Cozy, it must suck where you live because it's exactly as I said here. I've said all along that changes would be good, but I know first hand about those with nothing (my daughter) and those with something, me. I speak from plenty of experience with medical bills, I'm not wealthy, not even remotely close - yet I've managed to maintain insurance coverage, stay in my home, make my car payments, watch satellite TV, take vacations, buy Christmas gifts AND pay over $30,000 out of pocket in medical bills the past few years during which my wife was out of work 3 times plus being off for 3 months after neck surgery. If I can do it then so can others.

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Originally Posted by speechlesstx

...watch satellite TV, take vacations, buy Christmas gifts AND pay over $30,000 out of pocket in medical bills... If I can do it then so can others.

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I guess that's the cultural difference that we'll never settle here. As a staunch conservative you believe that since you did it then everyone else should be able to afford it as well whereas a Canadian thinks that all should have equal access to healthcare no matter what station of life they are at.

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Originally Posted by speechlesstx

cozy, it must suck where you live because it's exactly as I said here. I've said all along that changes would be good, but I know first hand about those with nothing (my daughter) and those with something, me. I speak from plenty of experience with medical bills, I'm not wealthy, not even remotely close - yet I've managed to maintain insurance coverage, stay in my home, make my car payments, watch satellite TV, take vacations, buy Christmas gifts AND pay over $30,000 out of pocket in medical bills the past few years during which my wife was out of work 3 times plus being off for 3 months after neck surgery. If I can do it then so can others.

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I've lived in SC, NC, Kansas, Virginia, Pennslyvania, and Georgia. They must all suck then.

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Originally Posted by NeedKarma

I guess that's the cultural difference that we'll never settle here. As a staunch conservative you believe that since you did it then everyone else should be able to afford it as well whereas a Canadian thinks that all should have equal access to healthcare no matter what station of life they are at.

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NK, I have repeatedly acknowledged (as in the last post) that we could use some improvements. I Just don't believe our government should be the provider of health care, I'm not moved by these specious claims people can't get health care in this country, and it's a damn lie that health care providers won't work with people to pay their bills... many if not most of whom gotten themselves in deep financial waters all on their own. Besides the potential for disaster which has been demonstrated in other countries, it will be a bad thing to make Americans even more dependent on government for their needs instead of doing more to get them out the entitlement cycle. I work, I pay my bills and I believe every American that can needs to do the same instead of making me do it for them.