I guess Michelangelo in big trouble for his image of God that he painted on the Sistine Chapel ceiling.Quote:
Originally Posted by jlisenbe
Then there's Sallman's "Head of Christ" -- totally unrealistic in many ways.
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I guess Michelangelo in big trouble for his image of God that he painted on the Sistine Chapel ceiling.Quote:
Originally Posted by jlisenbe
Then there's Sallman's "Head of Christ" -- totally unrealistic in many ways.
And that has what to do with the fact that in both the OT and NT, you do not find images of God?
That's not what it says Tom, you cannot be fired for race, creed, color, or sex. You better find a better excuse than that, and we both know there are ways. It's not a stretch to include gay or trans in the sex category. If it weren't for widespread discrimination you wouldn't need a title 7 clause period.Quote:
Originally Posted by tomder55
Sure. Then the plaintiff has to prove they were fired because of being in a specially protected group. That's how it works. How it's always worked. Nothing new.Quote:
Originally Posted by tomder55
Have you decided yet whether you would allow moral codes of a faith other than yours to be publicly displayed? Just a reminder to keep you from your usual non-answering to questions you can't handle.Quote:
Originally Posted by jlisenbe
Yes. The Jewish and Islamic Ten Commandments would be perfectly fine. And btw, if you can find a question I have not answered, I'd love to see it. We have, in fact, discussed this ridiculous question to distraction. It has been answered repeatedly. The Ten Commandments represent, as a poll showed clearly, a moral standard which we Americans tend to approve of. I doubt you could find many Hindus, for instance, who would not basically approve of the Ten Commandments. It is largely atheists who resist the posting.
Oh, paintings are okay? Ah! GRAVEN images are forbidden.Quote:
Originally Posted by jlisenbe
Here's one -- would you allow moral codes from other religions and other than the Ten Commandments to be publicly displayed? Your evasion is real cute, just like you usually act.Quote:
Originally Posted by jlisenbe
To make it even easier for you - morals from Sikkism, Buddhism, Hinduism, Jainism, Native Americanism - all the others not mentioned here.
Earth to Wondergirl. Michelangelo and Sallman did not paint in either the OT or NT periods of time. Those were clearly my points of reference.
Athos, look at my expanded answer. It is nothing more than a repeat of what has already been said. As I said, I doubt you can find many people in other religions who would object to the Ten Commandments. It simply represents a commonly held moral code that we Americans acknowledge as important. The primary resistance comes from atheists like I suspect you are.
My question specifically asked about Sikhs and Hindis displays of their religious tenets.
https://www.learnreligions.com/prima...dultery%20More
http://www.english-for-students.com/...mandments.html
They have a commandment for every life situation. Or how about Rastafarians
https://www.africaresource.com/rasta...20unto%20thee.
Starting to see a pattern emerge among the monolithic religions? If they say one God then no matter the name it has to be the same God. Customs, dogma, and traditions are man made concepts, but they have the same value system.
All yall look alike to me. Humans!
So it's okay to break that commandment now, since we aren't in the OT or NT times.Quote:
Originally Posted by jlisenbe
I did. You didn't answer. What are you afraid of? Why can't you answer? You've been doing the non-answer thing since I challenged you on your belief in hell for unbelievers. Should I repeat the question? I tried to make it easy for you.Quote:
Originally Posted by jlisenbe
Well, that much is true since you have yet to answer for the first time.Quote:
It is nothing more than a repeat of what has already been said.
That's clearly not an answer. Are you shaking with fear that your God will be angry if you answer?Quote:
As I said, I doubt you can find many people in other religions who would object to the Ten Commandments.
How many times do I have to tell you? 5? 10? 20? That is NOT an answer! Are you really that dense?Quote:
It simply represents a commonly held moral code that we Americans acknowledge as important.
Ah, finally - the shaming! You can't answer so you strike out with a threat.Quote:
The primary resistance comes from atheists like I suspect you are.
Now you have me as an atheist. Recently, it was a Russian Communist. What's next? A Martian?
Will you EVER answer the question? Be sure and put that non-answer stuff in your little book.
It is an answer, it's simply one you don't like or want to accept.
Martian?? Yes, I have often thought of that, kind of in the same vein as you thinking of me as being in the JB Society.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/School..._United_StatesQuote:
Originally Posted by jlisenbe
I don't know about the atheist part, but I doubt a Hindi would accept the Christian version without a representation of the Hindi version also. I think the reaction would be the same for any non Christian version of the 10 Commandments. Every body would want EQUAL billing and of course teachers would be free to teach whatever version they were a part of and of course the dominant ones get top billing.
Teach your religion in your church and homes, and save us the controversy in the public schools. Just accommodating different religious prayers and practices is controversial enough. Or send your kids to the parochial school of your choice, on your dime.
We Christians are afflicted with abortion and gay-marriage laws, but we wouldn't want a Hindu person to have to look at the Ten Commandments?
He very likely doesn't give a hoot about them!Quote:
Originally Posted by jlisenbe
afterall why should he, even christians deny themQuote:
Originally Posted by Wondergirl
He doesn't need yours, he has his own. I can see a lot of people thinking if they can do it why can't I.Quote:
Originally Posted by jlisenbe
http://mindsoap.org/bible/the-42-com...ancient-egypt/
Quote:
Written at least 2,000 years before the Ten Commandments of Moses, the 42 Principles of Ma’at are one of Africa’s oldest moral and spiritual instructions. Ma’at, the Ancient Egyptian divine Principle of Truth, Justice, and Righteousness, is the foundation of natural and social order and unity. Ancient Africans developed a humane system of thought and conduct which has been recorded in volumes of African wisdom literature, such as, these declarations from the Book of Coming Forth By Day (the so-called Book of the Dead), The Teachings of Ptah-Hotep, the writings of Ani, Amenemope, Merikare, and others.
Yeah. Why would a Hindu care about murder, lying, and respecting one's parents. I'm sure they probably love to murder, lie, and disrespect parents.Quote:
He very likely doesn't give a hoot about them!
Hindu moral codes are the integral part of Hinduism and they come under the big umbrella called Dharma. It is very difficult to translate the word Dharma. Some of the codes are Ahimsa (non-killing), Satya (truth), Dharma (duty), Karuna (compassion), Virya (fortitude), Dama (self-restraint), Saucha (Purity).
The moral code of Islam ranges from smallest details of domestic life to the field of national and international behaviour. It guides us at every stage in life and makes us free from exclusive dependence on other sources of knowledge, although we may, of course, use these as an aid to this primary source.
Moral Values in Jainism comprise of The Three Jewels which are, Right Faith, Right knowledge and Right Conduct. Moral Values in Jainism are directed towards the deliverance of the person.
Five Precepts of Buddhism Explained
- Abstain from taking life.
- Abstain from taking what is not given.
- Abstain from sensuous misconduct.
- Abstain from false speech.
- Abstain from intoxicants as tending to cloud the mind.
In other CURENT EVENTS the Supreme Court refuse to hear the dufus case to make states help deport illegal immigrants.
https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/sup...ornia-n1231060
Quote:
WASHINGTON — The U.S. Supreme Court said Monday it will not take up a legal battle over whether local governments can declare themselves sanctuaries and refuse to help federal agents enforce immigration laws.
You keep posting but you still haven't answered the question.Quote:
Originally Posted by jlisenbe
Would you allow moral codes of religions other than Judaism, Christianity, or Islam to be publicly displayed on government buildings/property?
It's almost comical how you persist in avoiding questions you can't answer directly. You skate around and skate around until you're dizzy with evasion.
Here it is again:
Would you allow moral codes of religions other than Judaism, Christianity, or Islam to be publicly displayed on government buildings/property?
To help you, WG has posted several from 4 religions.
Now - we await your evasion thing.
Abortions and gay marriage are rare and isolated events and your just exaggerating them. Do the math!
Generally speaking I would say no, but then that could easily be, in most cases, a local decision, but that's not what we're discussing here. The suggestion was to put the Ten Commandments in public schools because it is an historically accepted moral code in our country. That's why it was in schools to begin with prior to the SCOTUS decision in 80. It is also why your silly objection is spurious. We're not talking about anything and everything. We're talking about a specific passage.
So that one Hindi kid, or Catholic or Muslim has to go along with your commandments being in school, but he can't have his?Quote:
Originally Posted by jlisenbe
What? About 150,000 gay marriages and nearly a million abortions a year amounts to "rare and isolated events"? Well, if that's true, then what do you call the police shooting 10 unarmed black men every year? Good grief. What a crazy comment.Quote:
Abortions and gay marriage are rare and isolated events and your just exaggerating them.
Do not the catholics believe in the bible as do the protestants? Is not the muslim familiar with the old testament? As to the hindu he is a minority. What you are affirming is that man should be placed above GodQuote:
Originally Posted by talaniman
Catholic? Moslem? Are you awake yet? At any rate, the answer is yes, in the same way that a Christian, Jewish, or Moslem kid is deprived of seeing the Commandments on the wall now. The question comes down to this. Does posting the Ten Commandments amount to establishing a national religion? The answer to me is plainly and clearly "no", so much so that it seems ludicrous to even ask the question. It is on the same level as suggesting that we should remove the references to God from the Declaration of Independence in the name of the establishment clause. It's just sheer lunacy, as is the idea that a Hindu kid walking past a plaque bearing the Ten Commandments is some sort of serious hardship.Quote:
So that one Hindi kid, or Catholic or Muslim has to go along with your commandments being in school, but he can't have his?
Might add that the establishment clause would not seem to require that the feds be neutral towards religion. If that is what the founding fathers meant, then they could very easily simply have said that. "Establishment" means just that, that the feds cannot establish a national religion.
Why should they have to look at yours when they have their own? Why is not posting the commandments in a public school depriving anyone of anything since they have access in a church or at home, or in their bibles, which they can carry with them? No it's not on the same level as editing God from the founding documents, and that's not likely to happen.Quote:
Originally Posted by jlisenbe
Maybe you're drinking more than coffee this morning.
https://www.cnbc.com/video/2020/06/1...loroquine.html
Quote:
The Food and Drug Administration said it is ending its emergency use authorization for chloroquine and hydroxychloroquine, the anti-malaria drugs backed by President Donald Trump to combat Covid-19. Dr. Scott Gottlieb, member of the boards of Pfizer and biotech company Illumina and former FDA commissioner, joins Squawk Box to discuss.
Because they would be looking at what we accept in our country as a moral standard. You live here, then you get to look at it, or you can simply ignore it. And if we can edit any acknowledgement of God out of our schools, then why not out of the D of I? Why are they not on the same level? Why should an atheist have to see references to God in the D of I?Quote:
Why should they have to look at yours when they have their own? Why is not posting the commandments in a public school depriving anyone of anything since they have access in a church or at home, or in their bibles, which they can carry with them? No it's not on the same level as editing God from the founding documents, and that's not likely to happen.
No, we don't!Quote:
Originally Posted by jlisenbe
Correction. Everyone except Wondergirl accepts it. My apology.
I don't know where you get your logic from or that cockamamy notion of taking God from the founding documents, so look, what you do in your school is your business, and what I do in mine is my business so leave it at that. You just want to promote YOUR religion, and I get that's what you do, and it's okay with me, and you can just go get the votes and the people to make that happen. That's how its done in America. Good luck to you! Count me out though, but go for it.Quote:
Originally Posted by jlisenbe
If I sound impatient, forgive me but I just watched a few minutes of the dufus re election campaign speech, and I need more than a cup of coffee right now.
Wrong! Most Americans accept the First Amendment.Quote:
Originally Posted by jlisenbe
Back to basics - Are you ready yet to allow moral codes from other religions - see WG post where she so eloquently listed those moral codes - or are you insisting children from other religions must adhere to your beliefs?
I think we know the answer but it's good asking you and hoping you will someday see the light.
Please don't answer with some Bible verse. But you probably will.
(Trump speaks robotically when he reads a prepared statement. He seems to have little grasp of the contents).
If you will open you eyes and look at post 463, you will see that ridiculous question has been answered.Quote:
Back to basics - Are you ready yet to allow moral codes from other religions - see WG post where she so eloquently listed those moral codes - or are you insisting children from other religions must adhere to your beliefs?
The supposed conflict between the first amendment and posting the Ten Commandments has already been addressed. Keep up!!
Yeah. No one would ever suspect you to be a closet atheist.Quote:
Please don't answer with some Bible verse.
Well, someone needs their eyes opened, but it isn't me. You certainly did not answer the question. Here it is again --- children from other religions - can they post their scriptures next to yours? (Shortened form).Quote:
Originally Posted by jlisenbe
The fact that you claimed 463 was an answer tells us more about you. You don't respect the truth (as witness the 463 business) and when you are called on it, you charge the questioner with lying. Who's the liar now?
You obviously needed to hear the truth after your insult to WG. Only in your weak mind was it resolved.Quote:
The supposed conflict between the first amendment and posting the Ten Commandments has already been addressed. Keep up!!
Spoken like a true fundamentalist. Some things never change.Quote:
Yeah. No one would ever suspect you to be a closet atheist.
So you do post the 10 commandments in your school so what are you beetching about?Quote:
Originally Posted by jlisenbe
And here's the answer again. "Generally speaking I would say no, but then that could easily be, in most cases, a local decision, but that's not what we're discussing here. The suggestion was to put the Ten Commandments in public schools because it is an historically accepted moral code in our country. That's why it was in schools to begin with prior to the SCOTUS decision in 80. It is also why your silly objection is spurious. We're not talking about anything and everything. We're talking about a specific passage."Quote:
Well, someone needs their eyes opened, but it isn't me. You certainly did not answer the question. Here it is again --- children from other religions - can they post their scriptures next to yours? (Shortened form).
You could certainly resolve it easily enough. It's no problem for me. I am a Christian, meaning that my faith is completely in Christ for His redeeming, sanctifying, life-changing power. I have no trust in my goodness, and complete trust in His.Quote:
Spoken like a true fundamentalist. Some things never change.
Your turn, if you care to take it. Otherwise, stop griping about it.
I'm retired, so I don't have a school. At my last post, we did not have them posted due to our District guidelines, put in place because, as a public school, anyone who wanted to could easily sue us and have them taken down. They do have the national motto posted in each and every classroom, as does every public school in Mississippi. That's been the case for fifteen years or so.Quote:
So you do post the 10 commandments in your school so what are you beetching about?
Not just this country but every country has commandments some a lot more than 10 and some have for centuries so nothing special or unique about having them at all. I gave you the link where the Christian commandments given to Moses was straight from Africa. But you already knew that didn't you?Quote:
The suggestion was to put the Ten Commandments in public schools because it is an historically accepted moral code in our country.
Thank you. It tells us that you discriminate against non-10 Commandment religions. What could be more un-American? I'll add theocracy to your racism, child torture for unbelievers, and general dissembling (lying).Quote:
Originally Posted by jlisenbe
We are getting a very full picture of you.
And you believe that children who do not believe as you do spend all eternity being tortured in hell. Those poor Sikh kids. First you won't allow them to post their scriptures next to yours, and then you send them to hell for all eternity to be continuously tortured. Don't forget to leave that out. That's pretty important, wouldn't you say?Quote:
I am a Christian, meaning that my faith is completely in Christ for His redeeming, sanctifying, life-changing power.
Neither do we.Quote:
I have no trust in my goodness
No meaning given for this. So, no answer.Quote:
Your turn, if you care to take it.
Ah, Mississippi. The only state to fly the confederate battle flag with it's state flag. But let's leave MS alone for now.Quote:
They do have the national motto posted in each and every classroom, as does every public school in Mississippi.
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