The only reason any nation in the world suffers war today is because the US exists, now that is a factQuote:
Originally Posted by Vacuum7
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The only reason any nation in the world suffers war today is because the US exists, now that is a factQuote:
Originally Posted by Vacuum7
You would not have won WWII without Russia if the eastern front did not exist Germany would have repulsed you from Europe so get off the hype and realise WWII was a joint effort and we were with you in Iraq and Afghanistan probably against our better judgement so as to the last twenty yearsQuote:
Originally Posted by jlisenbe
and the century before thatwe have been there. My criticism of the US is because of your foreign policy, which is aggressive and unnecessarily violent. We are the greatest doesn't get any salutes here. What have you done lately?
Paraclete: Come on, now: There would be A LOT MORE WAR if the U.S. was not around!
It was a joint effort. That part is true. You would have been squashed without us. That part is also true.Quote:
You would not have won WWII without Russia if the eastern front did not exist Germany would have repulsed you from Europe so get off the hype and realise WWII was a joint effort and we were with you in Iraq and Afghanistan probably against our better judgement so as to the last twenty yearsand the century before that
When your Twin Towers (that you, of course, don't have) are taken down, then you can talk about it. We probably overreacted, but I don't regret our actions against the terrorists. It was well warranted. I'd like to see us pull back, but if we are waiting on the European nations and others (like you) to step in and do more than token actions, then we'll be waiting a long time. There is a part of me that would love to see us pull back from all of our commitments and let the world go to hell in a hand basket. People like you would be singing a different tune.Quote:
My criticism of the US is because of your foreign policy, which is aggressive and unnecessarily violent. We are the greatest doesn't get any salutes here. What have you done lately?
Way to rattle your sabers, like the arrogant prick dufus. Who cares about yesterdays history, and the what ifs and if not for's of days past? None of us here now was there, so let's lose the glory talk built on the blood and sacrifice of past heroes who died and sacrificed so you could beat your own drum, and blow your horns about a greatness you have yet to realize in the reality of now. I suppose it's just human nature to hide ones fear on the back of remember when instead of get busy now.
Our elders found a way to get it done now it's our turn to get it done.
Good point, Tal, I sick of been told the US is the saviour of the world, as if noone else does anything. Even in this event we have been to the forefront, identifying drugs that can beat the CV19.Quote:
Originally Posted by talaniman
Like I said, it is so tempting to just back off and defend fortress America so ungrateful and arrogant people could find out what life would be like without the U.S.Quote:
I sick of been told the US is the saviour of the world, as if noone else does anything.
Well here's a thougt, three candidates for President, two demonrats and one other are of a vulnerable age so will CV be the victor afterall
We seemed to be perfectly happy to kiss Hitler's butt, and sell stuff to Euros on both sides before we were ourselves attacked.Quote:
Originally Posted by jlisenbe
We were initially neutral, even though we were giving Britain a LOT of help and doing nothing to help Germany. After we were attacked we entered the war. In doing so we completely reversed the course of the war and kept the world from being under the domination of Nazi Germany or the USSR (depending on who won) and Japan. Sounds like a good deal to me. You agree?Quote:
We seemed to be perfectly happy to kiss Hitler's butt, and sell stuff to Euros on both sides before we were ourselves attacked.
All except the part we played with our multinationals that funded the rise of Hitler in the first place.
What part was that? And I hope you don't respond with your usual, "It's just too much work for me to describe it. I know it all but I'm just too tired to press the keys to type it. Go do the research and then it will all become clear to you."Quote:
All except the part we played with our multinationals that funded the rise of Hitler in the first place.
The multinationals dealing with Germany capitulated to their economic demands that funded Hitler. From GM, IBM, and the movie industry. While the Nazis were kick the jews off the boards of companies, they went along with it for years even after he started taking over other countries.
What "economic demands" are you talking about?
Keep the money in Germany and contribute to the rearmament effort, and fire the Jews.
I looked that up. It seems to come from a single book written about IBM only. IBM, of course, denies the bulk of the allegations. It seems to be speculation at best. At any rate, the government of the United States was not the participant and that was our topic. When you look at the enormous cost to our country of lives and money, then I think that incident, deplorable if true, pales alongside.Quote:
Keep the money in Germany and contribute to the rearmament effort, and fire the Jews.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IBM_and_the_Holocaust
I found several different sources here are a couple.
https://allthatsinteresting.com/majo...-collaborators
https://www.toptenz.net/top-10-ameri...-the-nazis.php
Where do you suppose those sites got their information? At any rate, it makes no difference. The U.S. govt is not responsible for what a stray company or two does.
I don't think you can consider those companies on the list as a stray company or two, to many of them for that, and these were big companies doing business all over the world. To make a buck they helped a monster, and the world paid a terrible price for the way they were allowed to do business. If ever big biz needed a government intervention, that would be it. So saving the world is reduced to just correcting a situation we helped create. If that's anybody's idea of free enterprise then you can keep it.
I don't necessarily agree or disagree with your analysis. I don't think there is a lot of proof for it, but even if I agreed, it was your sainted dem pres Roosevelt that allowed all of that to go on. To suggest that we played a major role in the development of Hitler's Germany would be a gross exaggeration. To say that we played THE major role in defeating it would be just about right.
It's really OK to be proud of your country. We have done a lot of things well, and we have corrected many of our mistakes. Now, however, things have changed for the worse.
How perceptive of you to notice, obviously Trump cannot reverse the trend by using rhetoric, so now he uses stimulus all the time wondering whether his businesses will benefitQuote:
Now, however, things have changed for the worse.
From what I can tell, there were tariffs and trade wars even then by our government, because of the German military action, though big biz found ways around them, so a disconnect between the two entities is quite evident, which gives us a more accurate picture of that period in time. Sure it's okay to be proud of ones country and celebrate the good things accomplished, but let's not play dufus and take all the credit since we were but one force, the largest, but certainly not the ONLY force against Hitler. It was a collective sustained effort that brought Hitler down.Quote:
Originally Posted by jlisenbe
I think we have to temper our bragging about WW2 as now, we have hardly been the conquering heroes in other military endeavors. Haven't you noticed the challenges get bigger and more complex? Of course things have gotten worse. Or have we ourselves that have gotten worse?
We have to stop that stupid perception . The man has cost himself a fortune by becoming President . His brand has been destroyed . The buildings that used to feature his name here in NY ;his base of operations ,have all changed their name to disassociate with him .Quote:
How perceptive of you to notice, obviously Trump cannot reverse the trend by using rhetoric, so now he uses stimulus all the time wondering whether his businesses will benefit
I disagree with most of the stimulus being proposed . But in this case there is a difference . Government decree has in large part been responsible for the financial peril many companies and individuals find themselves in today . I don't disagree with the policies of containing the spread of the virus per se because we just don't know how bad it can get . But ,unfortunately ,it is the responsibility of the government to provide some relief and to help getting the economy going again.
The good news is that this is different than 2008 . The financial institutions are in good shape . When this is over ;the pent up demand of the consumer will help the economy quickly rebound .
I'm not sure if a 2 trillion dollar bailout is the way to go right now at this early stage but making sure people can eat and stay warm during a health induced shutdown is a good priority. Not having a paycheck and not knowing when you will see one is a working mans nightmare. For how long is a corporate nightmare.
I don't think concerns over what big biz will do is a stupid perception nor conditional help is out of the question rather than just throwing a bunch of money we ain't got out the window and hoping people do the right thing. Corporations are people too, and have proved to be as flawed as the rest of us. How many times must I quote the great King Reagan "Trust but verify" before conservatives and capitalists listen?
We have Sandinista Bill running around like chicken little saying that martial law should be declared and that Trump should use his Presidential powers to do a fascist taker over of American businesses. So far Trump has resisted such impulses and it appears corporate America is stepping up to the plate and retooling where possible to provide the goods demanded .
Really I am amused listening to the Dems calling for Trump to take extraordinary powers. Just a couple months ago their biggest fear was presidential dictatorial over reach .
And while I am on the subject ;the latest garbage being spewed is that assessments were available in January that this virus would be a problem . Of course now the critique is that Trump did not act fast enough ... a completely bogus charge .
Let's review . What was happening in this country in November ,December ,January, early February ? It was impeach and convict 24-7 . While Trump was placing travel bans from China and creating the task force , Pelosi was handing out impeachment pens . Can you imagine if Trump had proposed in January any of the restrictions we are subject to today ? At a very minimum he would've been accused of wagging the dog during the impeachment hearings . I know that as a fact because the blond hair blue eyed native American ,and the compliant press accused him of wagging the dog when he had General Salami wacked.
Naw you don't get to make excuses for the dufus being more concerned about his job to actually be doing his job. Nothing stopped him from bringing this to the American public from the bully pulpit rather than blasting the dems for coming after him.
Just my 2 cents while recognizing the health crisis is a huge event leaving it to states and their limited resources is an abrogation of responsibility at this point in the process, and waiting for big biz to volunteer is dropping the ball. I know the dufus is damned if he do, and damned if he don't, just like every other president!
btw , this morning the futures fell 5% on the news that the Dems are stalling the bill in the Senate .
Who cares what the markets do? It's been reported that the Repub bill favors big biz 2 to one over the citizen who may well have to face the first of the month with no rent money while corporations are flush, or should be.
Good grief. What a comment.Quote:
Who cares what the markets do?
How so?Quote:
Originally Posted by jlisenbe
Who cares what the markets do? Anyone with investments, or who is on a retirement income, or who cares about the economy, or who remembers the Great Depression. You know, people like them who know enough to care about important matters.
When I want to gamble I go to a casino, and like any casino the HOUSE always wins even while some hit for the big bucks. Why is the market even falling do you know? Seems you should.Quote:
Originally Posted by jlisenbe
The market is falling for the same reason it always falls. Pessimism about the future. Investing is not gambling. It is the only way I know of to see your money grow faster than the rate of inflation. Put your money in the bank...watch it shrink in relative value every day.Quote:
Why is the market even falling do you know? Seems you should.
Markets will rebound when the crisis is over.
"Who cares what the markets do?"
Just saying
Have a great day. Are you guys pretty much staying in the house?
Of course, but keeping supplies stocked is an issue.
I am in an essential business
Being bored is an issue.
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