Our civilisation has lost much even the ability to reason as my new T-shirt boldly proclaims " there is no intelligent life anywhere"
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Our civilisation has lost much even the ability to reason as my new T-shirt boldly proclaims " there is no intelligent life anywhere"
Loonies are people too, and have the same rights as the so called reasonable people of our society. Everybody wants a T-shirt! LOL, I have often wondered if those I thought were reasonable people were really all that reasonable to begin with. Just because they don't holler and talk crazy stuff didn't mean they didn't do some wacky stuff.
I believe we've chewed down to the heart of the problem. There will always be imperfection in our society, world, community, church, household, fill in the blank.
Where we can discuss, we can be safe and maybe even civil. Progress can be slow, but that's better sometimes than going backwards or overlooking certain dangers. I think learning to deal with the problems of the world, even understanding the problems of the world, is a complex endeavor. Big problems have complicated solutions, and can be hard to come by. History can teach us when it's a bad time to act, but can never predict the future.
I have long recognized man cannot control the weather, but by in large we can see it coming and get out of the way of it or adapt to it's passing. No excuse for not having clean air, and water, and land, and the ability to clean up our messes, we have been known to make. Those are things we can control, and should endeavor to do better at. This wacky climate change debate, with it's soaring rhetoric on both sides, is but a distraction from what we can and should do about our situation.Quote:
Originally Posted by InfoJunkie4Life
I can find common ground with you talaniman, you are %100 correct
We need environmental protections regardless of the debate, also we need to improve the management of those that exist.
We also need to support a culture of a clean earth to promote good practices amongst it's citizens.
Unfortunately that's difficult in todays climate of the costs of conservation and clean air, because we seem to have a huge conflict of who pays for it. I am uncertain of that aspect myself as we have plans but no money it seems. Young people though seem to be more engaged than we were though so maybe we are still just moving in that direction slowly, so ever torturously slowly.
It's like the old story of the mice deciding that their lives would be much better if someone would put a bell around the cat's neck. The difficulty was in deciding how to get the bell on the cat. When you figure out how to cut back on carbon fuels without doubling or tripling utility costs, then I'd love to hear it.
The bell is on the cat, we know where it's coming and what it brings, Currently regions avail themselves of whatever alternatives they have and when those sources are not enough they of course ramp up the use of the fossil fuels. True some regions have more options than others, and differing degrees of resources from which to use so the onous it seems is to energy providers to best lean in with doable plans which as it stands now represents rising energy costs for consumers no matter what they do. I must point out the the costs are rising without a better plan, adding difficulting to the whole problem. Yes JL we agree, we both don't want the energy cost to double or triple in a short term, but they have been rising steadily for an awful long time as it is.
You know I have to tell you your political problems regarding cost are insignificant as I am forced to stand idly by and see my family directly affected by the ravages of climate and I don't blame government since they are powerless to stop a force of nature. Government is not to blame for climate change and no response is going to make any difference. What might make a difference is to stop bickering about rediculous political issues and cooperate
Our electricity costs are very low relative to most other nations.Quote:
Yes JL we agree, we both don't want the energy cost to double or triple in a short term, but they have been rising steadily for an awful long time as it is.
https://www.statista.com/statistics/...ted-countries/
We probably agree on a lot more things than we know of. I imagine our lives were somewhat similar.
Cooperate about what? (serious question)Quote:
stop bickering about rediculous political issues and cooperate
You really don't know, do you?Quote:
Originally Posted by jlisenbe
Think of a subject and think of the debate that rages around it, nothing constructive gets done as point scoring becomes the norm. This forum is a case in point. What useful purpose does it serve?
You think this, I think that. A wise man said it long ago. "all is vanity"
I know what I think. Not being a prophet, I have no idea what you think, so that's why I asked. If you don't want to answer, then that's fine by me.Quote:
You really don't know, do you?
Clete DID answer!Quote:
Originally Posted by jlisenbe
Like it or not that's how we get to cooperation here Clete, and I can understand you not feelin' it like we do, since you have certainly more to think about than just political banter.Quote:
Originally Posted by paraclete
Guilty as charged. What can we do for you n your time of need? Surprised we haven't done that alreay since we have planes and boats and helicopters and troops close enough to help.Quote:
Originally Posted by paraclete
Tal we have overseas help people have come in from Canada but what is needed is water bombing aircraft but I understand they sit on the ground over there because some bureaucrat is worried about cost, our military has been activated however the scale is overwhelming. In some places the only way to defend is bulldozers and you are talking of thousands of kilometres of firefront. they are taking people off the beaches. I think it is a coordination nightmare, evacuation orders when they need to roads cleared for response vehicles and the temperature has not backed offQuote:
Originally Posted by talaniman
Really? What did he say we should cooperate on? I don't see how, "You really don't know, do you?" amounts to an answer.Quote:
Clete DID answer!
All too frequently, when other countries want us to cooperate, it means they want us to spend some more of our borrowed, debt increasing money.
As I said you don't know. Everything has to be a confrontation with you, but you get more done with consensus. You have divided your country into two opposing camps and taken on the characteristics of the mascots you have claimed to represent your political parties. Look inside, do the cooperation within your borders, spend your money on yourselves if you must, we don't want your money. You see you are unable to see any point of view but your own and all we get from you is argy, bargy.Quote:
Originally Posted by jlisenbe
I am simply asking what you want our countries to cooperate on. You responded by telling me I don't know, and I'm responding by telling you that's why I asked. I don't see how that's confrontational, but if it bothers you for some reason then we can just drop it.Quote:
Everything has to be a confrontation with you,
I think JL missed the post you went into specifics about Clete, but I cautions you that after years of fighting fires all the planes and bulldozers and volunteers have failed to stop those ravaging fires that happen every year here. When the weather changes the fires die and I am afraid that's going to be a realization for your fires too. There just as here we are ALL overwhelmed and helpless by Mother Nature whatever you want to call her and what she does with impunity. Sure it's easy to ignore when human lives aren't involved, then nobody wants to hear about preparations like EVACUATION, often massive and immediate, but no we wait until the efforts become futile to stop the disaster the weather visits on us.
We all do it Clete, and will do it again even though we KNEW it was going to happen and can't be stopped. LOL, be better if your plan for preparedness had been a place to run to rather than how many dozers and planes to fight the futile fight with, I mean this ain't your first and you would be crazy to think it won't happen again even if as you have said it's an 11 year cycle firestorm. LOL, you have surely seen we cannot help ourselves when Mother Nature kicks up, so to think we can help YOU, is pretty unreasonable don't you think?
Instead of the argy bargy blame game, you are better served RUNNING for safety, instead of putting faith in dozers, planes, and boats after the fact. Till we humans own our mistakes we are hardly going to correct them.
Maybe you can tell me what I missed. Clete said we should cooperate. I am simply asking what he wants our cooperation on. Is he talking about their wildfires? Climate change? Defense?Quote:
I think JL missed the post you went into specifics about Clete,
Have some empathy for what the Aussies are going through because desperate is an understatement and no sign of relief appears on the horizon, except to rescue and remove people to safety ASAP. None of us here have the expertise or authority to begin to know what logistics and resources can meet this challenge and expecting victims to have a clue is futile. Helicoptering victims of this event to waiting boats is all I got and the government surely has reached that conclusion as well.
It does have to be a terrible situation. I've never lost a house to natural disaster or even a house fire, but I can imagine it must be a terrible experience.
Traumatic is the word I use. The often report the disaster and the aftermath, but Australia is a ways off from even that relief. I have seen it take years to recover from such events and seldom will you see that story reported. If they are they are few and far between and don't come close to portraying the horrific recovery victims actually face. Not blaming the media completely since their seems to be a disaster of nature and man made every day of this accelerated news cycle.
Depressing!
Yes Tal it is depressing but a ray of hope, my family is safe however what happens now I don't know
A ray is better than nothing Clete, Just try to stay safe and weather this firestorm.
Tal I'm safe but they predict the return of the same or worse tomorrow so who knows what will develop next it is like armageddonQuote:
Originally Posted by talaniman
I thought Armeggedon was the end of the world? This is just the reality of Paradice Island.
CALIFORNIA: A bowl of fruits and nuts! Any state who thinks legalizing dope smoking is something to brag about is entirely off the deep end.....All those states that have legalized it are very similar: ANTIBUSINESS!
They said that about alcohol in the 30's and the mob made bookoo bucks from it. Not just in California either. How about them LEGAL dope dealing doctors and those opiods?
Talaniman: ALL recreational dope use is patently wrong. ALL unnecessary dope administration is patently wrong. ANY DOCTOR who prescribes ANY DOPE, you pick the poison, as a methodology to attain some end result, when there are other means available to reach that same end result, should be scrutinized and evaluated for breaking his Hippocratic Oath with the removal of his or her medical license a possible punishment......And I feel the same way about those parents that condone doping up their kids because they refuse to parent: that is very disgusting! Parents need to stop looking for the easy way out!
Talaniman, I just don't see the "cool factor" in dope smoking! It is going to wreck this country. Go find one person who "resurrected" themselves by beginning to smoke dope.....find someone who can honestly tell you that "My life was on the skids until I found Marijuana and now, that I started smoking it, my life is just so much better! You will not find one!
Dope smoking is destructive, not constructive. Poor Illinois has a$850 million dollar deficit but they are bragging about legal dope sales bringing in a measly $4 million in revenues, holding that up as some justification of dope as a big revenue maker. They are even advocating dope to the poorer inner city as a means to help them raise revenue: these are areas where other forms of drug abuse have helped wreck the populations! THERE IS SOMETHING EVIL ABOUT THIS WHOLE DOPE MANIA!
Did you know the Japanese, when they invaded China, legalized and help proliferate Opium usage amongst the Chinese population? Why do you think they did that? It wasn't to help the Chinese, it was to put them into a lethargic, doped-up state where they wouldn't resist Japanese ambitions. Dope usage is in no way good.
I am not a saint by any stretch and never proclaimed to be one....I am full of sins and my own proclivities to sin with mine being a weakness for beautiful women...its a battle I have lost, won, and lost, yet again: will power is challenged and I understand how challenging it can be....but I recognize dope as inherently evil.
From climate change to dope! Welcome back Vac, but most dope heads, and alcohol users included, are highly functional responsible members of society so let's not equate users with abusers or lump all bad behavior into the same bucket for the same reason as their are legit reasons to medicate, just as their are not to self medicate. Good doctors and bad ones and if all you see is the bad then all you do is make the good suffer for it.
MJ and alcohol are the same to me and no way do I put MJ in the same category with heroin, or morphine for prosecutorial purposes. Bit of over kill there bud.
Talaniman: Good points and points well taken.....The problem with all of these things is that they are so "hairy": How do you parse the angle hairs to extract the acceptable from the unacceptable. The law is entirely absurd at time and uses a broad brush to paint everything the same color......Hell, where I live, if you get pissed drunk and decide to "relieve your bladder" on the side of the road and a man in blue sees you, he will arrest you and you will be convicted of a "SEX CRIME" and put on the same list as a Sex Criminal with rapists and child molesters....that is ridiculous, as well. But, I just have my own issues with MJ that make me feel so strongly about it: My brother, a Vietnam Vet, came back from S.E. Asia smoking it and it took him almost 20 years to get ahold of his life.....I don't and can't know for certain HOW MUCH MJ played a part in all of that but I do know it was a staple of his life so I attribute that it had some bearing on his issues.
It's so easy to to jump to a conclusion for complex situations and sorry about your brother. Nam screwed quite a few people up for years.
Looks pretty tough.
https://www.foxnews.com/world/pictur...s-in-australia
Yes jl one small part of the problem. today will be a critical day, one of many so far. Understand that if this is due to climate change, we are all screwed and what we are seeing mirrors biblical prophesyQuote:
Originally Posted by jlisenbe
Could very well be.Quote:
Understand that if this is due to climate change, we are all screwed and what we are seeing mirrors biblical prophesy
Such catastrophic disasters have happened before throughout history everywhere, and they are still here, so you probably will be too after it's over Clete, whenever that may be.
Quote:
Originally Posted by talaniman
I'm still here tal and my family is still in the fire zone and cannot get out
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