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-   -   It's Official! Impeachment Begins! (https://www.askmehelpdesk.com/showthread.php?t=846777)

  • Jan 6, 2020, 07:36 AM
    talaniman
    I doubt the Iranians will retaliate against US forces, but in addition with announcing going back to getting a bomb, the Iraqis are considering expelling the US from it's country and we have suspended our fight against ISIS. So while everybody is biting their fingernails waiting for the other shoe to fall over this offing a terrorist, who has been replaced already and the same strategies and plans against us still in place, the Iranians are seemingly putting aside their internal differences and rallying around their countryman. Nobody in the free world mourns this dude, but for real nobody has been saved by this action either. Just the opposite as the stakes have been raised much higher than they were before, and our allies and the Iraqis may be screwed big time because of this action.

    The dufus threw a match into a munitions dump full of high explosives and told the Americans to RUN fast as you can away because he knows it's going to blow. Tourist, business people, AND embassy folks are in more danger now than ever before, and our allies are wondering W-T-F...NOW WHAT!

    Obviously Vac you trust the judgement of POTUS a lot more than I do!
  • Jan 6, 2020, 02:02 PM
    paraclete
    Well Tal, you can never be sure what the motive is, the US must have been planning this move for a while
  • Jan 6, 2020, 03:41 PM
    talaniman
    I would expect we have always had a plan to blow someone away no matter what the motive is, yet I stop short in articulating what that is even though I've seen this military stuff in an election year before. Even Clinton's his impeachment had a missile attack They've been playing the dufus accusing Obama video of starting a war with Iran to get re elected all day long and I find that rather ironic given current events. His tweet storms don't help as he is talking crazy as hell. While that's nothing really new, it's actually more of the same stuff that got him impeached in the first place. Threatening the Iranian religious sites for destruction after offing their general is illegal by any standard though if even for just the effects of puffery.
  • Jan 6, 2020, 04:27 PM
    paraclete
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by talaniman View Post
    I would expect we have always had a plan to blow someone away no matter what the motive is, yet I stop short in articulating what that is even though I've seen this military stuff in an election year before. Even Clinton's his impeachment had a missile attack They've been playing the dufus accusing Obama video of starting a war with Iran to get re elected all day long and I find that rather ironic given current events. His tweet storms don't help as he is talking crazy as hell. While that's nothing really new, it's actually more of the same stuff that got him impeached in the first place. Threatening the Iranian religious sites for destruction after offing their general is illegal by any standard though if even for just the effects of puffery.

    Yes Tal terrorism is in the eye of the beholder, etc. Trump is now everyman's freedom fighter. the man obviously doesn't think he just reacts. His reactionary attempts at world peace just spread dismay
  • Jan 6, 2020, 05:04 PM
    talaniman
    I suspect he acts and reacts in his own self interest all the time, and doesn't care about the consequences or who else it affects or how. Irksome at the risk of understatement at best.
  • Jan 7, 2020, 05:28 AM
    Vacuum7
    Nothing new to see here: OFFICIALLY, the U.S. does not use assassination as a method to achieve political ends (Frank Church saw to that back in the late '70s) but killing this Iranian has sent a message to the rest of them: Don't believe the B.S. being put out there: None of these Iranians or Mullahs WANT a missile flying into their turbans! These arse wipes will think twice before acting up now. Doesn't anyone remember Ghaddaffi and Reagan sending a missile strike his way that killed his daughter? He shut up and no one heard of him for years. We don't have to do anything but use precision missile strike to terrorize these terrorist into becoming tame...hell they might even come to Jesus before its over!
  • Jan 7, 2020, 05:38 AM
    paraclete
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Vacuum7 View Post
    Nothing new to see here: OFFICIALLY, the U.S. does not use assassination as a method to achieve political ends (Frank Church saw to that back in the late '70s) but killing this Iranian has sent a message to the rest of them: Don't believe the B.S. being put out there: None of these Iranians or Mullahs WANT a missile flying into their turbans! These arse wipes will think twice before acting up now. Doesn't anyone remember Ghaddaffi and Reagan sending a missile strike his way that killed his daughter? He shut up and no one heard of him for years. We don't have to do anything but use precision missile strike to terrorize these terrorist into becoming tame...hell they might even come to Jesus before its over!

    Vac either you are the good guys or you are not, I think you have splinters in your arse from sitting on the fence as far as assassination is concerned, but then you don't offically use torture either
  • Jan 7, 2020, 06:15 AM
    Vacuum7
    Paraclete: See no evil, hear no evil, speak no evil: Only loose lips, media, and busy-bodies are responsible to fouling-up a good thing.....nipping these cancerous people in the bud is the best way to eliminate problems going forward: Why in the name of hell would anyone think that allowing them to grow larger, kill more people, and threaten more of the world be a good thing? Eliminate the problems earlier as opposed to later. A single 30-06 round would take care of each of the world's terrorist masterminds.....that single 30-06 round would save countless lives.
  • Jan 7, 2020, 12:46 PM
    talaniman
    You going to send a missile to Tehran when they bomb a stadium in England, or shoot rockets in Israel, or shoot up a train in Germany?
  • Jan 7, 2020, 03:11 PM
    paraclete
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by talaniman View Post
    You going to send a missile to Tehran when they bomb a stadium in England, or shoot rockets in Israel, or shoot up a train in Germany?

    What are those missiles for if you are not going to use them, obviously the deterrent effect is low. You have an "intelligence" network obviously it's effect is low too, if you cannot discern who gave the order and where they are located
  • Jan 7, 2020, 05:05 PM
    talaniman
    May have to fire a few since Iran has started firing theirs!
  • Jan 7, 2020, 06:37 PM
    paraclete
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by talaniman View Post
    May have to fire a few since Iran has started firing theirs!

    That is a matter of perspective, they would say you started it many years ago, what I see is a whole lot of stupidity, both nations have little to gain from war. remember the last one you started, it still isn't over
  • Jan 8, 2020, 02:57 AM
    talaniman
    If it's not one thing it's another as humans have proved through history it doesn't take much to start something, and have plenty of tools for wars. We still await the specifics for offing this hero terrorist, while others are taking the body count and disruption we have caused over that same period, like he is the only one with blood on his hands, and many have even more. Should they too be offed?

    Don't care which side you take, I don't trust our side completely, even as I don't trust the other side for a minute. The rest of us are just caught in the middle of their crap as usual.

    Quote:

    remember the last one you started, it still isn't over

    ONE? Count them again, and remember the W word isn't used for all of them. It's not official without the WW and a number behind it. Mostly its the small w that is referenced.
  • Jan 8, 2020, 05:08 AM
    paraclete
    Tal, war is hell, i know you know this i would like to have decade without a war
  • Jan 8, 2020, 08:39 AM
    talaniman
    Feel good semantics aside despite all the conflicts it could be worse.
  • Jan 8, 2020, 12:58 PM
    Vacuum7
    Talaniman: O.K., I must ask you: What did you think of Trump's response today around the Iranians? I was pleasantly surprised that he refrained from any immediate retaliation.

    I did find it very, very telling that the Iranians "PHONED AHEAD" that they were going to send missiles hurtling toward us before they fired them: That tells me that they really didn't want to kill any Americans....that is quite profound.
  • Jan 8, 2020, 12:59 PM
    Wondergirl
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Vacuum7 View Post
    Talaniman: O.K., I must ask you: What did you think of Trump's response today around the Iranians? I was pleasantly surprised that he refrained from any immediate retaliation.

    I did find it very, very telling that the Iranians "PHONED AHEAD" that they were going to send missiles hurtling toward us before they fired them: That tells me that they really didn't want to kill any Americans....that is quite profound.

    The Iranians are really playing him, aren't they! The bases were empty and they knew it.
  • Jan 8, 2020, 04:18 PM
    paraclete
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Wondergirl View Post
    The Iranians are really playing him, aren't they! The bases were empty and they knew it.

    It is all part of the great game, it has been played for centuries
  • Jan 8, 2020, 04:25 PM
    tomder55
    does anyone deny killing General Salami was the right move ? The man is directly resonsible for the death and maiming of thousands of Americans ....He has led the war effort in Syria that has caused a half million Syrian deaths and a million more wandering around Europe. He leads the Iranian effort in their proxy war against the Saudi's in Yemen . I liken his wacking to the WWII Operation Vengeance .

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Vengeance

    where does Yamamoto go to get his apology ?



    Perhaps you think that Iran hasn't been at war with us since 1979 ? There are some Americans I suppose who think not . I know that no Iranian leader thinks otherwise.
  • Jan 8, 2020, 05:58 PM
    paraclete
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by tomder55 View Post
    does anyone deny killing General Salami was the right move ? The man is directly resonsible for the death and maiming of thousands of Americans ....He has led the war effort in Syria that has caused a half million Syrian deaths and a million more wandering around Europe. He leads the Iranian effort in their proxy war against the Saudi's in Yemen . I liken his wacking to the WWII Operation Vengeance .

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Vengeance

    where does Yamamoto go to get his apology ?



    Perhaps you think that Iran hasn't been at war with us since 1979 ? There are some Americans I suppose who think not . I know that no Iranian leader thinks otherwise.

    Tom let me ask you a question. What would happen if Iran decided that the assassination of Trump was the right move because of his actions, would it be seen as justifiable because he had effectively murdered the Iranian general. Without the due process which you americans prize there cannot be justification. When did the trail take place which sentenced him in absentia? Was it legally constituted? or a kangaroo court made up of politicians and military? I expect it was Trump acting as Judge , Jury and Executioner and noone gave him that authority.
  • Jan 8, 2020, 07:15 PM
    jlisenbe
    Quote:

    Tom let me ask you a question. What would happen if Iran decided that the assassination of Trump was the right move because of his actions, would it be seen as justifiable because he had effectively murdered the Iranian general. Without the due process which you americans prize there cannot be justification.
    You're comparing apples with oranges. It's like asking if Hitler would have been justified for trying to kill Roosevelt since, after all, Roosevelt had bombed so many German cities.
  • Jan 8, 2020, 07:30 PM
    Vacuum7
    Ladies and Gentlemen: Has anybody recollected the show trials of Nuremberg? Was that not an entire B.S. court? Many were hanged with only accusations to support the claims of the Allies. Being a Nazi was enough to get you killed, even though hostilities were over! Now, Solemeini was guilty because he was caught on tape talking about executing another mudering rampage: He was dead to rights guilty! It all comes down to the fact the left has a problem with TRUMP! If Obama killed Solemeini, it would have been the "Greatest Assassination Of All Time"!!! And everyone on here knows it! All the left is ing because TRUMP is decisive and HE DID NOT GO TO WAR, which is what they were hoping he would do because it gave them a glimmer of hope that they could win in Nov. 2020!
  • Jan 8, 2020, 07:42 PM
    tomder55
    Quote:

    Tom let me ask you a question. What would happen if Iran decided that the assassination of Trump was the right move because of his actions, would it be seen as justifiable because he had effectively murdered the Iranian general.

    A question you would not ask under the context of a war. Iran has declared war on the US .General Salami is personally responsible for introducing the road side
    explosively formed projectile (
    EFP) that killed over 600 US soldiers and maimed thousands more .
    Quote:

    In 2004, the Quds Force began flooding Iraq with lethal roadside bombs that the Americans referred to as E.F.P.s, for “explosively formed projectiles.” The E.F.P.s, which fire a molten copper slug able to penetrate armor, began to wreak havoc on American troops, accounting for nearly twenty per cent of combat deaths. E.F.P.s could be made only by skilled technicians, and they were often triggered by sophisticated motion sensors. “There was zero question where they were coming from,” General Stanley McChrystal, who at the time was the head of the Joint Special Operations Command, told me. “We knew where all the factories were in Iran. The E.F.P.s killed hundreds of Americans.”Suleimani’s campaign against the United States
    crossed the Sunni-Shiite divide, which he has always been willing to set aside for a larger purpose. Iraqi and Western officials told me that, early in the war, Suleimani encouraged the head of intelligence for the Assad regime to facilitate the movement of Sunni extremists through Syria to fight the Americans. In many cases, Al Qaeda was also allowed a degree of freedom in Iran as well. Crocker told me that in May, 2003, the Americans received intelligence that Al Qaeda fighters in Iran were preparing an attack on Western targets in Saudi Arabia. Crocker was alarmed. “They were there, under Iranian protection, planning operations,” he said. He flew to Geneva and passed a warning to the Iranians, but to no avail; militants bombed three residential compounds in Riyadh, killing thirty-five people, including nine Americans.

    https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2...adow-commander


    Since when is targeting an enemy commander in war a matter of due process ? Was it wrong to target kill Yamamoto ,the commander who planned and executed Pearl Harbor ??? You are making the same mistake the Democrats are making here . It is a legitimate issue to question the strategic implications of the decision. It is not legit to question the legality or the legitimacy of the President who is commander in Chief to make that call .
  • Jan 8, 2020, 08:14 PM
    jlisenbe
    Good reasoning, Tom.
  • Jan 8, 2020, 08:57 PM
    paraclete
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by tomder55 View Post
    A question you would not ask under the context of a war. Iran has declared war on the US .General Salami is personally responsible for introducing the road side
    explosively formed projectile (
    EFP) that killed over 600 US soldiers and maimed thousands more .


    https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2...adow-commander


    Since when is targeting an enemy commander in war a matter of due process ? Was it wrong to target kill Yamamoto ,the commander who planned and executed Pearl Harbor ??? You are making the same mistake the Democrats are making here . It is a legitimate issue to question the strategic implications of the decision. It is not legit to question the legality or the legitimacy of the President who is commander in Chief to make that call .

    On the contrary, legitimacy is the question. You say the man is guilty by his own words, the same could be said of Trump who threatens death and destruction every other day. Trump has bombed the territory of other nations. Just because you think american stands above other nations doesn't make the acts of its leader legitimate. I'm not saying the Iranian general didn't need to be brought to account, but he doesn't stand alone, he too has a chief who endorses his acts
  • Jan 8, 2020, 10:32 PM
    talaniman
    Several presidents and the Mossad have declined in the past to off this guy when they had the chance. Would that have changed things any? I very much doubt it in the contexts of the Iranian asymetrical strategy. The deed is done and the Iranians shot their missles and officially washed their hands of the matter. They still have the asymetrical war network and strategy in place just ready to continue at the next level. They still have all the tools in the box they had before and with a more focused purpose that even those that called for reforms and the ouster of the mullahs can get with. So what was really accomplished here? They have another martyr, and we are still left with the dufus and what he will do next, since doesn't look like a war with Iran. You think he will try again?

    Back to impeachment, the commercial break is over. Look for more documents against the dufus to emerge as Moscow Mitch pushes for the trial to start. He said he has the votes to start without charges or committing to witnesses. Will he though? Will the congress buy the excuses from the dufus that there was an imminent threat so an assassination was the only option to stop it? Will the dufus be knee deep in his trial when he gives his state of the union address?

    Now that should be a wild ride if he is.
  • Jan 9, 2020, 02:56 AM
    paraclete
    Tell me Tal how much of a threat was the shooting down of a Ukrainian air liner. I think it says, this is a no fly zone for friends of america
  • Jan 9, 2020, 05:23 AM
    jlisenbe
    Quote:

    So what was really accomplished here? They have another martyr, and we are still left with the dufus and what he will do next, since doesn't look like a war with Iran. You think he will try again?
    Maybe we should try foolishly giving them billions of dollars in cash. No, wait. Obama already did that.

    Quote:

    Back to impeachment, the commercial break is over. Look for more documents against the dufus to emerge as Moscow Mitch pushes for the trial to start.
    So we're back again to, "charges first and evidence second". "You just wait until tomorrow and see what damaging evidence we'll come up with!" People are beginning to get tired of that old song.
  • Jan 9, 2020, 05:28 AM
    Vacuum7
    Paraclete: No evidence that the Ukrainian Airliner was shot down.

    Trump isn't at all worried about Impeachment....he isn't worried about whether the Senate Trial happens or doesn't happen...Trump doesn't worry about the Democrats...Trump is focused on the health of the U.S. Economy and, despite all the nonsense spouted out by the left that WWIII was fixing to start yesterday, the DOW hit another record! You aren't stopping the TRUMP TRAIN, no matter what the left does: He is too tough, too fast, and too smart. The left has met their match in Trump.
  • Jan 9, 2020, 06:58 AM
    talaniman
    It's normal and the way the law works is charges are brought, and a trial follows, and that's what we have. A trial determines guilt and innocence. Repubs couldn't rig the investigation after the House changed hands so crying foul and rallying around the leader is all they have left.
  • Jan 9, 2020, 07:08 AM
    jlisenbe
    Quote:

    It's normal and the way the law works is charges are brought, and a trial follows, and that's what we have. A trial determines guilt and innocence. Repubs couldn't rig the investigation after the House changed hands so crying foul and rallying around the leader is all they have left.
    Try going to court to bring charges against someone with no substantial evidence and see if you end up with a trial happening.
  • Jan 9, 2020, 08:38 AM
    talaniman
    In this instance we have charges and are going to trial. The dems make their case or they don't but America will be watching and rendering their own judgements. I'm cool with that.
  • Jan 9, 2020, 12:46 PM
    Vacuum7
    Talaniman: We may NOT BE GOING TO TRIAL: Pelosi has presented any Articles Of Impeachment....The whole Impeachment issue may be dismissed....pissing away a lot of taxpayer money and Trump still get reelected....WHAT A WASTE of time, money, and effort....and Adam Schiff still won't be liked!
  • Jan 9, 2020, 12:56 PM
    Wondergirl
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Vacuum7 View Post
    Talaniman: We may NOT BE GOING TO TRIAL: Pelosi has presented any Articles Of Impeachment....The whole Impeachment issue may be dismissed....pissing away a lot of taxpayer money and Trump still get reelected....WHAT A WASTE of time, money, and effort....and Adam Schiff still won't be liked!

    Yes, we will go to trial.
  • Jan 9, 2020, 01:50 PM
    paraclete
    Yes can we get on with it
  • Jan 9, 2020, 01:58 PM
    jlisenbe
    Pelosi is still napping. Once she gets up, it'll be underway.
  • Jan 9, 2020, 03:03 PM
    Wondergirl
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by jlisenbe View Post
    Pelosi is still napping. Once she gets up, it'll be underway.

    Nope, she's waiting for Moscow Mitch to get real.
  • Jan 9, 2020, 03:43 PM
    paraclete
    procrastination, it is a wonderful tool, but Trump didn't fall for it
  • Jan 9, 2020, 03:57 PM
    jlisenbe
    It's just an attempted power grab. Someone needs to tell Miss Nancy that she is not in the Senate.
  • Jan 10, 2020, 04:35 AM
    talaniman
    Typical right wing hollering points as just like the dufus can do as he pleases, and Moscow Mitch does as he pleases, how you wingers balk at Nancy for doing as she pleases.

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