Ask Me Help Desk - Trump's Border Wall Paid by Mexico

Quote:

My solution is a joint effort between Mexico and the US to address those core issues and that is stabilize those parts of South America that produces those desperate humans fleeing regional conflicts.

I'm all for it, though it would be an enormous undertaking, especially considering that the United States is essentially broke. In the meantime, we build a wall so we can control who does, and does not, enter through our southern border. That's what I call dealing with life on its own terms.

The US isn't the only country experiencing refugees at its border. The political and economic upheaval in Venezuela is causing refugees to flee to neighboring countries, in particular, to Colombia, where my sponsored child lives. Thus, I get regular emails from Compassion International about disaster relief and the needs of the refugees and their children. I'm sure CI is asking other sponsors for financial help for the refugees on our southern border.

Quote:

the United States is essentially broke.

Huh??? What about our fantastic economy??? What are the members of our churches and synagogues and mosques and temples doing to relieve human suffering???

Quote:

Huh??? What about our fantastic economy??? What are the members of our churches and synagogues and mosques and temples doing to relieve human suffering???

We are 22 trillion in debt and accumulating more as fast as we can. President Obama managed to accumulate almost half of that in only eight years, and Trump is doing but little better. So any plan we formulate with our southern neighbors will only contribute more to that. It's all going to come down sooner or later, and honestly, any country as gung-ho for abortion as we are deserves it.

I'm all for supporting child feeding programs. My wife and I engage in it ourselves. I am sometimes amazed when I think of what the church could do if we were genuinely committed. We could both feed a lot of hungry children and put the great majority of, and perhaps all, abortion clinics out of business.

quaint idea 'core issues ' What if the core issues' solution is regime change ? (which I believe is the case in at least Honduras and Venezuela ) The core issue with starvation in Venezuela is a jack booted dictator trying to create a communist utopia. In Honduras it is even more disturbing . https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/...n-murders.html

LOL, churches and releif efforts depends on the charity and donations of others and unpaid volunteers. So while you are stuck on abortions, the greater need goes unmet. We agree about the debt, but the challenge before us is an even bigger thing to deal with and the dufus and his wall is but a waste of time and a distraction from meeting that challenge. Like a wall will protect us from the real enemies we face. A wall for a misdemeanor offense? Really.

Have you lost your freakin' mind?

Quote:

Originally Posted by tomder55

quaint idea 'core issues ' What if the core issues' solution is regime change ? (which I believe is the case in at least Honduras and Venezuela ) The core issue with starvation in Venezuela is a jack booted dictator trying to create a communist utopia. In Honduras it is even more disturbing . https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/...n-murders.html

Regime changes is the best option in my book... starting right here at home and extending to many other regions. Poverty and starvation will surely make people run or join the army of dictators for a few ducats for bread for the families they leave behind. Yeah it's always been that way hasn't it?

that's why I say arm the refugees and send them back to take back their homes .

Let's be realistic guys. Walls are in.

Quote:

Originally Posted by waltero

Let's be realistic guys. Walls are in.

Only amongst the nut jobs who cannot think of better options. Better to fortify your own dwelling from the evil hordes you see descending on you.

Quote:

Originally Posted by tomder55

that's why I say arm the refugees and send them back to take back their homes .

That could take years of training to be effective and we would still have to build them up with food and medicine to carry all those AR-15's. And rocket launchers. Unfortunately the dufus wants to boot the dreamers out of the army, and keep illegals out of the military.

Quote:

Originally Posted by talaniman

Unfortunately the dufus wants to boot the dreamers out of the army, and keep illegals out of the military.

The rich kids will claim bone spurs, high bp, and back pain, so who's left to fight for us?

Quote:

Only amongst the nut jobs who cannot think of better options.

Again, Tal refers to name calling. I really shouldn't have to hear anymore protests from the lib side about name calling. It's on full display here.

Quote:

So while you are stuck on abortions, the greater need goes unmet.

I always regard it to be tragic when grown people cannot muster so much a speck of concern when children are being killed by the hundreds of thousands, and regard it to be a lesser need. As for needs being met, if you removed everything except the atheist aid organizations, there would be virtually nothing left. Thank God for the ministry of the church. It is not what it should be, but it is far above what unbelievers are doing.

Quote:

Originally Posted by jlisenbe

Again, Tal refers to name calling. I really shouldn't have to hear anymore protests from the lib side about name calling. It's on full display here.

Guilty then, but because I do it you make it a lib problem but when the dufus does it what should we call that? Back to you.

PS That's just part of the way I deal with BULLIES, and nut jobs who cannot discuss a consensus solutions and dismiss anything beyond their own nose.

Quote:

I always regard it to be tragic when grown people cannot muster so much a speck of concern when children are being killed by the hundreds of thousands, and regard it to be a lesser need. As for needs being met, if you removed everything except the atheist aid organizations, there would be virtually nothing left. Thank God for the ministry of the church. It is not what it should be, but it is far above what unbelievers are doing.

I have as much concern about your abortion issues/views as how you support kids/women/FAMILIES to be treated and sent back to their deaths. That's why I continue to take the position you should stay out of people's personal business unless you will also aid in the raising of those kids in more substantive a minor than promoting your own personal morals. Food, shelter, medicine and some clothes to wear to school/work would be a start.

If the church were enough we wouldn't be in this mess.

Quote:

Guilty then, but because I do it you make it a lib problem but when the dufus does it what should we call that? Back to you.

I will say very readily that Trump, in his name calling, is as guilty as your are in your name calling.

Quote:

I have as much concern about your abortion issues/views as how you support kids/women/FAMILIES to be treated and sent back to their deaths. That's why I continue to take the position you should stay out of people's personal business unless you will also aid in the raising of those kids in more substantive a minor than promoting your own personal morals. Food, shelter, medicine and some clothes to wear to school/work would be a start.

So I'll ask again. How many of them are you housing? How many are you personally feeding? If you want to start a charitable organization to help those people in their own countries, then let me know and I'll help. But your solution is basically to let the entire distressed population of Mexico and Central America just move to our country, all tens and tens of millions of them. Well no, I don't agree with that. And it gets old to hear your appeal to charitable superiority over the rest of us when it's not costing you anything. When you start going to Mexico and trying to help people there so they will have a better life in their own countries, then let me know. I'll help out and you will, without question, have earned the respect of all the rest of us, but as long as it's just words, it doesn't count that much.

Now Tal, you know that you and I are very honest with each other. I say nothing here for the purpose of insulting you. I hope you understand that. One thing about you that I really like. You do not speak in mysteries. You are not "yes" today and "no" tomorrow. You do not try to conceal yourself in some murky, middle ground. I like that a great deal. If you think I'm an SOB on some topic, you just come out and say it. Clarity is a great thing between friends.

Quote:

Walls are in.

You can try and reinvent the wheel (wall), until you do, walls are it.

Quote:

Only amongst the nut jobs who cannot think of better options. Better to fortify your own dwelling from the evil hordes you see descending on you.

Such is the World.

You might view walls as being primitive but they are still being used, built, functional, in todays world...more then ever before.

Quote:

Only amongst the nut jobs who cannot think of better options.

Who is it you are describing here (You've been saying this exact thing all along) ?

You said it, it is our only option...Build the Wall!

We should encourage people with problems to just run away. But if they have nowhere to run...

Walter, very well said.

everyone who doesnt think we need a wall should leave their doors unlocked .

I can be an absolute SOB myself JL. On any subject at any time. Everybody knows that. Frustrating for others I know.

@Waltero, If you build a wall to keep from helping those running to you for help, then you don't get to hide behind Jesus. Admit your fear and pray for courage.

Quote:

Originally Posted by tomder55

everyone who doesnt think we need a wall should leave their doors unlocked .

I lock my doors for security against my fellow Americans, most are lunatics, and criminals. What does that have to do with a wall against desperate poor and afraid men, women, and children unless you believe the lying cheating dufus who wants YOU to pay for it because Mexico told him to screw himself.

Quote:

Originally Posted by talaniman

I can be an absolute SOB myself JL. On any subject at any time. Everybody knows that. Frustrating for others I know.

@Waltero, If you build a wall to keep from helping those running to you for help, then you don't get to hide behind Jesus. Admit your fear and pray for courage.

I lock my doors for security against my fellow Americans, most are lunatics, and criminals. What does that have to do with a wall against desperate poor and afraid men, women, and children unless you believe the lying cheating dufus who wants YOU to pay for it because Mexico told him to screw himself.

And yet you won't lock your door against the invaders, many of whom are criminals, as your president has told you. Mexico will pay in many ways and are already paying. You can do something about the poor, it is called untied foreign aid, but no, your military-industrial complex insists on preserving their profits by benefiting from every dollar of aid you give. Why don't you just dump your food, your equipment on their shores, it would be cheaper and more effective

Quote:

Waltero, If you build a wall to keep from helping those running to you for help, then you don't get to hide behind Jesus. Admit your fear and pray for courage.

Who here is using the Bible (Jesus) to Justify thoughts and actions? Am I reaching out living the message?

The world works independently of Christ. A wall will prevent many hardships.

Christian charitable activity should be independent of parties and ideologies. It is not a means of changing the world ideologically, and it is not at the service of worldly stratagems.

Quote:

“I'm completely in favor of the separation of Church and State. ... These two institutions screw us up enough
on their own, so both of them together is certain death.”
George Carlin

To begin with, broadbrushing fleeing humans fron danger with the invaders label is not only highly prejudical, but deceptive rhetoric used to stoke fear and hate. The dufus uses it effectively on those that listen to him. It's an insult, to associate these so called invaders with criminals. A humane lawful process exists already to separate the vast humans with legitimate issues from those without, and even identify the undesirable criminals from the lot. Let's face it as inadequate as the system is in the view of many the dufus doesn't want to use it at all, nor want to garner the proper resources for it either. Such a failure exacerbates the problem, and the utter failure to effectively partner with other countries to deal with this shared issue should raise red flags as to the incompetence of this administration to rise to the challenge and selling a bill of goods to his base with the catch all of a wall.

The wall doesn't even address the issue of catching criminals, or the huge number of visa overstays or undocumented that have been here for decades, or the huge and dangerous problem of drugs that have fueled the narco driven unrest that contributes to people running in the first place. A wall only misuses the resources from real issues to false security.

Quote:

A humane lawful process exists already to separate the vast humans with legitimate issues from those without, and even identify the undesirable criminals from the lot. Let's face it as inadequate as the system is....

Exactly what I've posted, Tal. Let's use the system we have (and improve and enlarge it).

Quote:

The wall doesn't even address ... the huge and dangerous problem of drugs that have fueled the narco driven unrest that contributes to people running in the first place.

And let's get serious about the drug problem in the US. If so many of us didn't want illegal drugs, the narco salesmen wouldn't have a market to sell to.

Quote:

Exactly what I've posted, Tal. Let's use the system we have (and improve and enlarge it).

You guys just plainly don't get it. Most of these people just cross the border illegally and are never processed in any way since they are sneaking in. Now with a wall in place, most of that will stop and then the process can be used properly.

The process should ALWAYS be used properly whether people have been sneaking in or not. I take your point though of the many that sneak in and not get processed, but that is an unknown number and I am dubious a wall will ever stop them all, and digging tunnels is a economy all its own obviously well worth the effort for people and drug smugglers, and find one shut it down they dig 10 more. Lets not ignore the controversy of how the dufus is going about getting YOUR money to pay for the wall, or the way he even presents his "EMERGENCY" by intentionally slowing down the process for deterrent effects. That was both cruel and dumb, but you guys like his cruel dramatic ways.

Quote:

A wall only misuses the resources from real issues to false security.

A false sense of security is the only kind there is.

We like the Fact that Trump doesn't want to play "the game". He's going to get his wall, without giving the Dems Squat.The Dems would certainly fold on the wall issue, if only Trump would play ball with them.

Quote:

Originally Posted by jlisenbe

Most of these people just cross the border illegally and are never processed in any way since they are sneaking in. Now with a wall in place, most of that will stop and then the process can be used properly.

They'll still sneak in. Once they find out a wall is in place, they'll bring along the equipment they need to dig under it or climb over it. Haven't you read about the boat launching that will take place to help refugees and immigrants get into the US via water? Just like all the prison escapes, where there's a will, there's a way!

We need more border stops with medical and food services and, of course, more well-trained agents and US sponsors.

Quote:

Just like all the prison escapes, where there's a will, there's a way!

And yet we have not abandoned the idea of prison walls because there is no better answer. There's a lesson to be learned there. And I doubt seriously that a million people a year will enter by boat. We confiscate the boats and they soon have no boats. They bring a backhoe onto American land to "attack" the wall, then we seize the backhoe.

Gosh. Not real complicated.

Maybe we should use the News Media? Have them fabricate a Story of torture and death for all those that enter through the southern Border.

oops, already been done.

Delete

Why don't Americans become refugees from some of the Democrat districts ? I wouldn't blame them . Does Maxine Waters represent her district ? How ?https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_c...&v=-owq0whScEc

Quote:

Originally Posted by jlisenbe

And I doubt seriously that a million people a year will enter by boat. We confiscate the boats and they soon have no boats. They bring a backhoe onto American land to "attack" the wall, then we seize the backhoe.

Gosh. Not real complicated.

Trains and planes and boats and ladders and shovels. And without electronics, how will anyone know who is where along the wall?

Quote:

Trains and planes

Yep. Those million poor people a year now crossing illegally will all go out and buy a plane ticket.

Quote:

boats and ladders and shovels. And without electronics, how will anyone know who is where along the wall?

Fine. Put in some electronics. One way or the other, the river is slowed to a trickle. Mission accomplished.

Quote:

Originally Posted by jlisenbe

Fine. Put in some electronics. One way or the other, the river is slowed to a trickle. Mission accomplished.

Yes electrify the wall, problem solved

Quote:

Originally Posted by jlisenbe

Yep. Those million poor people a year now crossing illegally will all go out and buy a plane ticket.

Plenty (plus drugs) are coming in via air and sea -- and across our northern border.

Quote:

Fine. Put in some electronics. One way or the other, the river is slowed to a trickle. Mission accomplished.

What river? A wall gives it to Mexico.

Quote:

Plenty (plus drugs) are coming in via air and sea -- and across our northern border.

The vast majority simply walk/drive across our southern border. Build the wall.

Quote:

Originally Posted by jlisenbe

The vast majority simply walk/drive across our southern border. Build the wall.

Those are refugees from Central America.

https://www.npr.org/2018/12/11/67589...-we-build-more

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-46748492

https://www.azcentral.com/story/news...ss/1898283002/

For those that hate links to facts and data, the dufus LIES! He ain't done squat, and his emergency has yet to rise to previous high levels of migrants and certainly not from Mexico. Nobody asks why when repubs had power supreme he got no money for his wall, and even a dufus should know so you wall supporting right wing immigration hardliners can take a break and enjoy his antics, share popcorn with the rest of us or you can keep whooping and hollering like your fake hero, same results though, you get NOTHING...because he 's got nothing.

From an article you linked. "Leaving aside the semantic difference between a wall and a fence, Trump is correct that fencing in San Diego, for example, significantly reduced "illegal traffic" when originally built decades ago. It also pushed border-crossers east, away from coastal San Diego, to areas where the fencing is less robust."

So if we had a wall all the way across, that would be the end of it. Thanks for the supportive link!

And no, you cannot say that 80,000 people a month from Central America are walking through Mexico to get to our border. Just not true. Most of them are still from Mexico.

Quote:

Originally Posted by jlisenbe

From an article you linked. "Leaving aside the semantic difference between a wall and a fence, Trump is correct that fencing in San Diego, for example, significantly reduced "illegal traffic" when originally built decades ago. It also pushed border-crossers east, away from coastal San Diego, to areas where the fencing is less robust."

So if we had a wall all the way across, that would be the end of it. Thanks for the supportive link!

And no, you cannot say that 80,000 people a month from Central America are walking through Mexico to get to our border. Just not true. Most of them are still from Mexico.

I gave you my facts, give me yours. My point was you will never get them all and the barriers built decades ago work pretty good if you don't mind them dying in the desert, or digging tunnels. You probably do.

Quote:

Originally Posted by talaniman

I gave you my facts, give me yours. My point was you will never get them all and the barriers built decades ago work pretty good if you don't mind them dying in the desert, or digging tunnels. You probably do.

Tal, the idea is to slow the flood to a trickle, as well as humanely stopping people from dying in the desert, etc. There is a deterrent effect if these "refugees" know that the only way in is through official channels. You will still have to deal with people smugglers, just as you have to deal with drug smugglers.

Quote:

Originally Posted by paraclete

Tal, the idea is to slow the flood to a trickle, as well as humanely stopping people from dying in the desert, etc. There is a deterrent effect if these "refugees" know that the only way in is through official channels. You will still have to deal with people smugglers, just as you have to deal with drug smugglers.

How will future refugees know that?

The same way they know the path is wide open now. Word gets around.

Quote:

Originally Posted by jlisenbe

The same way they know the path is wide open now. Word gets around.

The boyfriends all know each other?