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Talaniman: You don't see the ChiComs as a sworn enemy? But you see THE RUSSIAN FEDERATION as a sworn enemy? How come Red China is O.K. but Russia is not O.K.? The ChiComs are a much bigger problem than is Russia. You are upset with RUSSIAN MEDDLING but you aren't upset with Red Chinese coercion of the Entertainment Industry, of Google, Of the NBA, of U.S. Manufactures, and of U.S. Politicians? ChiCom influence in the U.S. is WAY, WAY, WAY GREATER than is Russian influence on any level.

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The Russians are thugs and criminals with Putin as the head surrounded by hand picked Oligarchs that pay Putin to do business in Russia. They invade other countries for profit and power, while they lie cheat and steal. Are they better than the Chinese? Maybe not, but there is a reason Big Biz goes to China and not Russia. If Big Biz was not so greedy they could cut a deal they want, or cut bait! How else do you explain the US/Chinese relationship except that Big Biz wants those paying customers more than they want a fair deal. With Russia it's people can do the stuff that makes us money and are indeed prohibited.

Now if the Chinese are better at the cyber stuff and so is Russia then that's a problem to be addressed. So why aren't we? Why isn't Big Biz? Is it there fault for exploiting our weaknesses, or our responsibility to tighten up on our back stroke and stop whining about what they are doing to us. If said entities you mention allow themselves to be played for chumps for a few bucks is that the business of government? I don't thinks so.

My point here Vac is it doesn't matter what China and Russia do! What counts is what we do. Greedy cheap bastards running big biz should handle their business better. They influence us because they can.

You brought China in from the cold, you never brought Russia in, although they are logical allies. You still trade with China though they represent the greater threat

Talaniman: I can assure you that I agree with a lot more of what you say than you may at first realize. I really have a ill will toward American companies SELLING OUT in Red China (to hell with the term "INVESTING IN CHINA", they do so at the U.S.'s expense!). I am all for yanking the citizenship of any of these bastards so they CAN'T live in the U.S. (I know that is radical!).

But, remember: Russia, outside of the time right after WWI when we tried to help the "White" Russians defeat the Bolsheviks, have never opening fought and killed Americans but the ChiComs have killed Americans in conflicts.

I don't see much of any hope for good, legitimate relationships with Red China but I do with Russia: The "THUGS" won't be in charge forever in Russia.

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Originally Posted by Vacuum7

I don't see much of any hope for good, legitimate relationships with Red China but I do with Russia: The "THUGS" won't be in charge forever in Russia.

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Russia has a history of Czars no matter what you call them, it is ingrained in the psyche, looking to a strong leader, Putin is getting older, he won't stay forever but the regime is what it is. It would take another revolution to change it

Paraclete: I sense you have a very astute grasp of Russian history and the Russian dynamic. The U.S. is being "charmed" by the ChiComs while the real potential for us lies in improving the Russian-U.S. relationship and expanding that relationship to include military agreements of mutual defense to isolate the ChiComs.

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Originally Posted by Vacuum7

Paraclete: I sense you have a very astute grasp of Russian history and the Russian dynamic. The U.S. is being "charmed" by the ChiComs while the real potential for us lies in improving the Russian-U.S. relationship and expanding that relationship to include military agreements of mutual defense to isolate the ChiComs.

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The US is not charmed by China, but reality is the two economies are intertwined but their militaries are in opposition. The US cannot undo asian history, China was a power in the region in ancient times and it is again, but this time it is an economic power made so by the US, it is also a very populous nation and inevitably it will look to expand. It is surrounded by infertile lands and old rivalies so the US is not threatened unless it intervenes as it is want to do

Paraclete: One huge NOTE: EVERY CHICOM "COMPANY" IS AN EXTENSION OF THE PEOPLES LIBERATION ARMY! Every U.S. Company in China, has an office of a Political Officer (PLA!)...I KNOW THIS INTIMATELY.

But, where does this leave Russian in the U.S.-Red China disgusting orgy?

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Originally Posted by Vacuum7

Paraclete: One huge NOTE: EVERY CHICOM "COMPANY" IS AN EXTENSION OF THE PEOPLES LIBERATION ARMY! Every U.S. Company in China, has an office of a Political Officer (PLA!)...I KNOW THIS INTIMATELY.

But, where does this leave Russian in the U.S.-Red China disgusting orgy?

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Opposed to the US because it does business with its inevitable enemy. The three great nations of the world are paranoid, two because they have been invaded many times, the other, well it faced an attack once or twice

Until the Russian people get tired of Vlad and his restore the USSR to it's former glory, and scarfing up their economy, we are stuck with this dude and Xi for that matter too! Neither is going anyplace fast and we deal with them as we always have, where we can and oppose what we are against just as they do.

There is still a huge world out there to deal with also, some with nukes, some with huge issues. Like we don't have issues too!

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Originally Posted by talaniman

Until the Russian people get tired of Vlad and his restore the USSR to it's former glory, and scarfing up their economy, we are stuck with this dude and Xi for that matter too! Neither is going anyplace fast and we deal with them as we always have, where we can and oppose what we are against just as they do.

There is still a huge world out there to deal with also, some with nukes, some with huge issues. Like we don't have issues too!

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The USSR is gone, communism is on the nose, in what world will the USSR be restored? Putin has not shown himself to be rabidly expansionist. Only one country dictates to others what they can or cannot do

Western allies didn't like Vlad rolling into Crimea, or the Ukraine or interference in Eastern Europe. The Cold War is back, or haven't you noticed.

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Western allies didn't like Vlad rolling into Crimea, or the Ukraine or interference in Eastern Europe.

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What did they actually do about it?

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Originally Posted by jlisenbe

What did they actually do about it?

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The Ukraine is traditionally Russian so they pushed back against western influence. The west is a paper tiger, Europe a spent force, only the US has a real interest in opposing Russia

mgParaclete: There are the filthy Germans, did you forget? They are firebrands who do everything they can to pit the U.S. against Russia. Germany is just waiting to build up their military and become another world power.

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Originally Posted by Vacuum7

mgParaclete: There are the filthy Germans, did you forget? They are firebrands who do everything they can to pit the U.S. against Russia. Germany is just waiting to build up their military and become another world power.

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Germany is an economic power, but a spent force militarily and as part of the EU there are checks and balances. Under the US umbrella, Germany hasn't had to maintain military might

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Originally Posted by jlisenbe

What did they actually do about it?

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They levied sanctions and kicked them out of the G8.

Thought you knew since it was a BIG deal at the time.

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Originally Posted by paraclete

The Ukraine is traditionally Russian so they pushed back against western influence. The west is a paper tiger, Europe a spent force, only the US has a real interest in opposing Russia

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I disagree since the aid the EU has given to Ukraine is rather enormous.

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They levied sanctions and kicked them out of the G8.

Thought you knew since it was a BIG deal at the time.

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Fair enough. I actually didn't know. I knew there was no military action taken.

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Originally Posted by talaniman

They levied sanctions and kicked them out of the G8.

Thought you knew since it was a BIG deal at the time.



I disagree since the aid the EU has given to Ukraine is rather enormous.

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Yes these days aid is used to buy allegiance everyone wants to join the EU until they learn the price

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everyone wants to join the EU until they learn the price

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I think you're right about that.

We have had our country shattered before when the north and south disagreed on policy and many died. At least we no longer have the bloodshed and found that politics is a safer venue of arguments and conflicts but the EU fails because you have soveriegn countries instead of states, with no overall checks and balances to equalize the playing field. While our states are autonmous and can't tell each other what to do, not so with EU members, where some governments are actually better than others, and seek to exercise more control than other member states, individual sovereignty prevents a central representative authority. There is no profit sharing just debt distribution. Imagine Texas loaning Mississippi a trillion bucks at a moderate interest knowing full well MS. cannot pay any of it. That won't work so we 9The Feds) give Ms. a grant to keep it from just going full bankruptcy and dragging everyone else down with it. Same dynamic in many continents, too many sovereign nations, and not enough states with an overall central governing body. Africa comes to mind, where we have partnerships but no overall governing policy. Not that the USA has it down pat, corruption runs rampant enough to slow any productive progress but we slog along better than most places in the world which may not be the shiny badge of honor the spin says it is.

A lot of work in order to form a MORE perfect union yet to be done.