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Originally Posted by jlisenbe

You failed to mention that they are receiving treatment on the American taxpayer's dime from Medicaid. I don't see how any nation 23 trillion in debt, with more debt accumulating daily, can believe it can afford to pay for med care for non-citizens.

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Who the blazes cares if it's on the American taxpayer's dime! These terminally ill children were ASKED to come here so medical research could find a cure for their rare diseases infecting children all over the world. The research has been successful and these children are being kept alive in this country by the treatment they're receiving which is not available in their home country. And which now can be used to save many more lives.

You and Trump want to send them home to die! You care too much about those dimes the government is stealing out of your pocket so children may live.

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Originally Posted by jlisenbe

Your hero, Mr. Obama, added as much debt in his eight years as every other president before him combined,

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How ill-informed can you possibly be? You sing this tune over and over again without a single mention of what Obama inherited from the Bush administration. With the criminal collusion of Wall Street, the country (world) entered into the Great Recession which Obama brought the country out of. If it had been left to the Republicans their laissez-faire solutions would have created a Depression far worse than the 1930s.

Then there's that tax cut for the middle class that Trump trumpeted as saving $4,000 a year for all of us. He promised it would reduce the deficit. In reality, it has increased the deficit, probably by at least 2.3 TRILLION, a conservative estimate.

Why is it you never bring up those facts? Instead, like Trump, you just blame Obama wherever and whenever.

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Who the blazes cares if it's on the American taxpayer's dime! These terminally ill children were ASKED to come here so medical research could find a cure for their rare diseases infecting children all over the world. The research has been successful and these children are being kept alive in this country by the treatment they're receiving which is not available in their home country. And which now can be used to save many more lives.

You and Trump want to send them home to die! You care too much about those dimes the government is stealing out of your pocket so children may live.

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And thus we see why we are 23 tril in debt. If they were ASKED to come here for research, why is the taxpayer having to pay for it? Yeah, it's that same ole "Who cares about paying for it?" mentality.

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How ill-informed can you possibly be? You sing this tune over and over again without a single mention of what Obama inherited from the Bush administration. With the criminal collusion of Wall Street, the country (world) entered into the Great Recession which Obama brought the country out of. If it had been left to the Republicans their laissez-faire solutions would have created a Depression far worse than the 1930s.

Then there's that tax cut for the middle class that Trump trumpeted as saving $4,000 a year for all of us. He promised it would reduce the deficit. In reality, it has increased the deficit, probably by at least 2.3 TRILLION, a conservative estimate.

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I'm not sure what your objection is. Obama incurred as much debt as all other presidents before him combined. That is a true statement. Was it necessary? You say so, but many others disagree. One way or the other, it's that "Yawn, so what?" attitude that is killing us. Is Trump behaving foolishly? Absolutely, but you are so in love with the liberal orthodoxy of Mr. Obama that you can't bring yourself to say that his incredible deficits were irresponsible.

As irresponsible as the dufus lie about talking to China over the phone to prop up the stick markets? That's not just irresponsible but may be illegal. Obamas debts were agreed to by a repub congress since no president can legally control the purse strings even in an emergency. The congress can over ride if they so chose, so are they not to blame as well as the executive? Of course they are.

The debt though is a simple fix, declare bankruptcy and screw the rest of the world like the dufus has done many times before, so what's the big deal?

If the U.S. declare bankruptcy, China will be in big trouble, at least the ChiCom part of China! Remember: If I owe you a million $s, I have got a problem.....however, if I owe you a trillion $s, YOU HAVE ONE HELL OF A PROBLEM! The U.S. declaring bankruptcy would be the ultimate power play and would torpedo the entire world economy.

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As irresponsible as the dufus lie about talking to China over the phone to prop up the stick markets? That's not just irresponsible but may be illegal. Obamas debts were agreed to by a repub congress since no president can legally control the purse strings even in an emergency. The congress can over ride if they so chose, so are they not to blame as well as the executive? Of course they are.

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Aren't Trump's deficits agreed to by a democrat House? What's the difference?

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Originally Posted by jlisenbe

If they were ASKED to come here for research, why is the taxpayer having to pay for it?

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Non sequitur.

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I'm not sure what your objection is.

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It isn't hard to see. Obama INHERITED the financial situation. He did what was necessary to resolve the problem continuing in what Bush had started. This is plain to see. You just refuse to acknowledge it.

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If they were ASKED to come here for research, why is the taxpayer having to pay for it?

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Non sequitur.

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Only for you.

Are you seriously suggesting the American government asked these families to come here to be, in effect, the subjects of medical trials? Really?


As to the budget deficits, your explanation might explain the first couple of years, but not the following six. His problem was simple. It is easy to spend, spend, spend when you don't have to worry about paying for it and when you know your loyal supporters would not dare to raise their voice for even a second in criticism. It is one thing to support a president, and quite a different thing to practically worship him.

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Originally Posted by jlisenbe

Only for you.

Are you seriously suggesting the American government asked these families to come here to be, in effect, the subjects of medical trials? Really?

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That's exactly how it works, and I gave you a link to that effect. The Government brought those sick kids here at the request of the research company doing the trials. As per the link, those costs are mostly borne by the research company with the NIH sharing the costs. A private/public endeavor generally.

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As to the budget deficits, your explanation might explain the first couple of years, but not the following six. His problem was simple. It is easy to spend, spend, spend when you don't have to worry about paying for it and when you know your loyal supporters would not dare to raise their voice for even a second in criticism. It is one thing to support a president, and quite a different thing to practically worship him.

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Boy you have facts and history all screwed up. Repubs took over after the 2010 election, and gained even more seats in 2012. So Obama had to deal with Boehner and Moscow Mitch for 6 years of his 8 year term, so tell me again how it was ALL the Obama worshippers running up deficits that you call irresponsible during a recession, where government is the primary investor and the dufus takes credit for the work done before him.

Any dufus can walk into a clean house and start living, but the guy before him did the cleaning, and obviously did a very good job compared to what he walked into himself. Repubs have a habit of doing stuff like that as we only have to look at what Bush inherited from Clinton, a balanced budget and strong economy, and he and the dems cut taxes for 10 years, and not to mention TWO theatres of conflicts OFF THE BOOKS in Iraq, and Afghanistan and left a MESS! Obama's first budgets put those trillion dollar wars on the books for all to see and deal with.

So what are you talking about?

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Boy you have facts and history all screwed up. Repubs took over after the 2010 election, and gained even more seats in 2012. So Obama had to deal with Boehner and Moscow Mitch for 6 years of his 8 year term, so tell me again how it was ALL the Obama worshippers running up deficits that you call irresponsible during a recession, where government is the primary investor and the dufus takes credit for the work done before him.

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Read more carefully. I have said all along that both parties engage in deficit spending, but if you want to attach the repubs to Obama's deficits, then you must also be willing to attach the dems to Trump's deficits. And as I have also said before, if you want to give Obama a pass his first two years, then fine, but how do you explain the six years following them? It all comes down to a simple fact. You love Obama and would never say a critical word about him. It's a love that borders on worship.

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Any dufus can walk into a clean house and start living, but the guy before him did the cleaning, and obviously did a very good job compared to what he walked into himself. Repubs have a habit of doing stuff like that as we only have to look at what Bush inherited from Clinton, a balanced budget and strong economy, and he and the dems cut taxes for 10 years, and not to mention TWO theatres of conflicts OFF THE BOOKS in Iraq, and Afghanistan and left a MESS! Obama's first budgets put those trillion dollar wars on the books for all to see and deal with.

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Amazing how you want to blame the repub Congress for Obama's failures, but then aren't willing to credit them for his supposed successes. It's all politics. Bush was failure? I agree completely. You see? That's how it works when you don't worship political figures.

Your link was just a generic article about drug trials. It said nothing specific about the situation with these Mexican children. The link I provided from the Boston Globe specifically states that Medicaid is picking up the med costs. If our government is bringing in foreign children to use a test subjects for med treatment trials, then that is beyond despicable.

I place no blame because I have seen this political dynamic all my life and as the rent goes up, so does the debt. Now you can be outraged all you want my friend and retreat to the comforts of your tribal beginnings and nitpick all kinds of what you think is an affront to your sensibilities but a staement of fact is not an attack, just accepting reality. By the way I have pointed out in my posts not just the bad stuff but the good stuff too about our past repub presidents. Seems it's you that cannot accept the good of Obama, flawed human though he be.

Maybe some day I will find good things about the dufus to appreciate, but so far NADA! You would deny the first black president lifted up the spirits of millions with HOPE? I was inspired by it even if you weren't.

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By the way I have pointed out in my posts not just the bad stuff but the good stuff too about our past repub presidents. Seems it's you that cannot accept the good of Obama, flawed human though he be.

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Exactly!! Thank you for illustrating your bias in favor of dem presidents. You can never bring yourself to say anything critical about them. Politics. Stinkin politics.

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I place no blame because I have seen this political dynamic all my life and as the rent goes up, so does the debt.

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Yawn. Another trillion dollars of debt? No big deal to Tal. That is why the debt continues to grow, the "what the heck" attitude of so many Americans. Time will tell, but when it does, it will be too late to avoid the pain of reality.

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Now you can be outraged all you want my friend and retreat to the comforts of your tribal beginnings and nitpick all kinds of what you think is an affront to your sensibilities but a staement of fact is not an attack, just accepting reality.

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"Retreat to the comforts of (my) tribal beginnings." What on earth are you talking about? How sad it is that when someone advocates for some fiscal responsibility, you can just blow it off as "nitpicking". You will learn, my friend. It's going to be a hard lesson, but you will learn someday.

Well JL what can I say? I'm a dem (Very independent though), but have much respect for those old pragmatic common sense repubs from back in the day that have dissapeared from the body politic and been replaced by cowards and sycophants. If you want to go back to those days I'm all for it, but if you think I'm going to hold my nose and get behind a lying, cheating, big mouth bully and his phantom yes boys, and racist terrorists, you have absolutely lost your mind.

Go ahead raid some more slum bosses blessed by the Chamber of Commerce, and deport the workers and let the slum bosses keep making their money and call it JUSTICE! You should be ashamed, because THAT'S pure politics. That includes your dufus who has done the same thing while YOU completely look the other way.

Management of the debt is right in front of your face, if you weren't so busy being part of the problem. Stop holding your nose and get some glasses why don't you. Then you could see and smell how the dufus is stinking up the whole country, and the world with feeding you FEAR, and HATE!

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Well JL what can I say? I'm a dem (Very independent though)

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It's not so much what you CAN say as much as what you will NOT say. You will never be critical of any dem and certainly not of Mr. Obama. Independent??? I don't see that at all. But as you have said, you are a dem, so I get that.

Is it as hot in Texas as it is here?

It has cooled off to 100* but about 80 at night. I get the chores and errands done well befor noon, but sometimes I get the straw hat out and soldier forth. It's livable when the humidity is low but sometimes TStorms roll through and it's cooler but humid and that's what makes the sweat roll.

I gotta say though it's been that way since I can remember, but the fascinating part has been even if it rains cats and dogs all day, an hour after the sun comes out there is no evidence that it rained at all. I shouldn't complain since it's a lot better than the harsh winters and high heating bills I'm use to around the Chicagoland area.

I don't miss shoveling snow at all and wearing shorts for 9 months of the year is something I can get with. How you guys making it?

We are OK. The humidity is a problem when we get into the high nineties. I've never lived in a really cold area so it holds some appeal to me.

Can't say I didn't enjoy it as a kid, but the bones creak enough from living and working in it. My kids ran like scalded dogs from the area once the could. Can't blame them. Even the wifes peeps abandon the great north and that lake effect snow. I'll take some 90's about now.

But now you can't build a snowman and I can! HA!

I don't know. That snow looks pretty good about now.

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Originally Posted by jlisenbe

Are you seriously suggesting the American government asked these families to come here to be, in effect, the subjects of medical trials? Really?

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They were invited as part of medical research to find treatment for rare diseases affecting hundreds of millions worldwide. The program has been successful (ongoing) with children being treated in this country because the advanced treatment is not available in their home country.

Trump wants to deport them knowing they will die in their home country.

The costs have been borne by private insurance, donors, volunteers and government. Only you would deprive these children of receiving government aid because you don't approve your tax dollars being spent for it. I estimate the actual tax cost to you is one-ten-thousandth of one cent.

You presume to speak for others. You sure as hell don't speak for me. I support my tax money being spent to keep these children alive.