Government run and mandated health care IS socialized medicine.

Just like any other sector of the economy that can be and should be privately and competitively run by either private or publicly owned corporations or individuals.

Look at Cuba...

Look at the old East Germany...

Look at the old Soviet Union...

Look at any other commie loving country with a domineering and overbearing government.

Name one Government run and owned enterprise that consumes NO tax dollars... and turns a profit purely based on the quality of services it offers without enjoying a government mandated monopoly status? And that doesn't force one group to buy its own services as well as pay for those of another who aren't required to pay their fair share.


And Robin Hood was not an upstanding citizen, robbery is robbery.

Hello again, smoothy:

So, you ARE pissed off at your lazy neighbor who let's YOU pay for his house NOT burning down. I understand.

excon

Quote:

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Originally Posted by smoothy

And Robin Hood was not an upstanding citizen, robbery is robbery.

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Yes and the spirit of Robin Hood lives on in capitalist government. Haven't you seen it robbing the rich through taxation and giving to the poor. When the people were poor they loved the idea but as soon as they got some money...

Quote:

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Originally Posted by paraclete

yes and the spirit of Robin Hood lives on in capitalist government. Haven't you seen it robbing the rich through taxation and giving to the poor. When the people were poor they loved the idea but as soon as they got some money..................

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Yeah... exactly the problem with so many people today. Why work for it if you can demand to get it free...

Quote:

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Originally Posted by excon

Hello again, smoothy:

So, you ARE pissed off at your lazy neighbor who let's YOU pay for his house NOT burning down. I understand.

excon

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I don't have any lazy neighbors... they couldn't afford my neighborhood if they were. And any apartments are clear across town. That's where the bums live and most of our local crime occurs.

One of THE reasons I picked to live where I did. Far too few renters really give a hoot about respect for other peoples property... and not just their landlords property. And you aren't renting a house anywhere near me for less than $2,800 a month. And we have strict ordinances about who and how many unrelated people can share a property. And they ARE strictly enforced.

Hello again, smoothy:

I've TRIED to engage you in a discussion. You don't want to discuss. You want to spout slogans. I can't argue with a billboard. There's no satisfaction in that. I know you don't understand what I'm talking about. S'fine with me. Later.

excon

Gee, and I thought all that crap called Obamacare was supposed to fix this:

Senate Bill Sets a Plan to Regulate Premiums

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Fearing that health insurance premiums may shoot up in the next few years, Senate Democrats laid a foundation on Tuesday for federal regulation of rates, four weeks after President Obama signed a law intended to rein in soaring health costs.

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Maybe that will help get them that Obamacare bounce they've been expecting.

Yes ,weren't we told premiums would go down under Obamacare ? I guess it's our fault as we fought complete takeover of a major percentage of the national economy .Silly us ;if only we had succumbed to the will of the collective.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by tomder55

yes ,weren't we told premiums would go down under Obamacare ? I guess it's our fault as we fought complete takeover of a a major percentage of the national economy .Silly us ;if only we had succumbed to the will of the collective.

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Haven't you guys learned the one thing that is constant about insurance, premiums never go down? And here I was believing you are an advanced society

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Originally Posted by paraclete

haven't you guys learned the one thing that is constant about insurance, premiums never go down? and here I was believing you are an advanced society

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And another is NO government agencyever has ANY incentive to be efficient, their budgets would be reduced if that were true... and they NEVER want that to happen. They ALL or a 100% drain on taxpayers... leeches sucking the money out of the productive members of society to benefit themselves and the lazy members of the population.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by smoothy

leeches sucking the money out of the productive members of society to benifit themselves and the lazy members of the population.

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Hello again, smoothy:

So, it DOES piss you off that your lazy neighbors get their fire put out for free, while YOU'RE paying for it. I knew it.

excon

Quote:

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Originally Posted by excon

Hello again, smoothy:

So, it DOES piss you off that your lazy neighbors get their fire put out for free, while YOU'RE paying for it. I knew it.

excon

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You're living in a dream world.

Most fire departments in the country AREN'T paid for by tax dollars. They aren't where I live either. MY fire department is a volunteer dept.

MY tax dollars ARE however going to pay for illegals, and their demon spawn who occupy and consume 19% of our school budget EVERY year (actual numbers from MY counties school budget).

And since illegals can't have taxpayer ID's... they can't be paying taxes... and even if they were, 47% of the population pays NO income tax now... leaving 53% to pay for their lazy butts.

Ex, this ain't about fire departments you master of misdirection. I would say we were sold a bill of goods but it was rammed through against the will of the people under various guises, one of which was reducing premiums. The bill is crap, but at least Pelosi was right about needing to pass it so we'd know what it would (or wouldn't) do.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by speechlesstx

ex, this ain't about fire departments you master of misdirection.

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Hello again, Steve:

It's closer to fire departments than you think. The IDEA behind fire departments is that we POOL the risk of our houses burning down, and we ALL pay for that protection. Health care reform is the SAME thing. We POOL the risk of getting sick, and we ALL pay for that protection.

It's the SAME thing. It really is. Smoothy's point that it's different because HIS firemen aren't paid, is really rather ridiculous. Certainly, the fire trucks are taxpayer property. The 911 system IS taxpayer property. The fuel that goes into those trucks is paid for by the taxpayer.. However, the POINT that I was attempting to make, is that NOBODY pay's for their own fire protection. You pay for your neighbors and he pays for yours.

Now, I realize that it's just not possible for you righty's to make that connection.. But, that's NOT going to stop me from trying to educate you.

excon

Quote:

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Originally Posted by smoothy

You're living in a dream world.

Most fire departments in the country AREN'T paid for by tax dollars. They aren't where I live either. MY fire department is a volunteer dept.

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Hello again, smoothy:

Unless your community hires a PRIVATE fire department, ALL the fire departments in this great country of ours are TAX PAYER SUPPORTED. To argue that they're NOT, because YOUR fire fighters are volunteers, misses the point.

But, I used to you missing the point.

excon

Apples and oranges. If my neighbors house goes up in smoke there is a risk to me because my house could catch fire from the sparks.
That is why communities think it a good use of tax dollars; to provide for the common safety of the community .

Quote:

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Originally Posted by tomder55

apples and oranges. If my neighbors house goes up in smoke there is a risk to me because my house could catch fire from the sparks.
That is why communities think it a good use of tax dollars; to provide for the common safety of the community .

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Hello again, tom:

Apples and APPLES. If your neighbor girl goes to school with UNTREATED strep throat, your CHILDREN are at RISK, and so is your FAMILY. That's why looking out for your neighbor's health is a GOOD use of tax dollars - to provide for the common safety of the community.

Like I said, the connection is IMPOSSIBLE for righty's to make. Maybe it's because you guys all eat the same thing. Or, maybe you all watch the same TV channel.

excon

Quote:

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Originally Posted by excon

Hello again, smoothy:

Unless your community hires a PRIVATE fire department, ALL the fire departments in this great country of ours are TAX PAYER SUPPORTED. To argue that they're NOT, because YOUR fire fighters are volunteers, misses the point.

But, I used to you missing the point.

excon

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YOU are missing the point... volunteer fire departments are NOT taxpayer supported. I don't know where in the hell you are pulling that information from... but it's a dark place that doesn't smell very pleasant.

I have a number of personal friends who are volunteer firemen... and in fact family members have been going back further than 30 years. They don't get grants... or even matching funds, much less have the bills paid by taxpayers via tax dollars.

And certainly unlike Obamas brand of SOCIALISM... his homeboys don't get something for free when 53% of the public is extorted to pay not only for their own... but the lazy 47% who won't as well.

That's only a good idea to the lazy SOB's who won't be forced to pay anything.

It then would be in the community interest to decide that sick children shouldn't go to school.But it is not the community's responsibility to make sure she goes to the doctor or to pay for it.

Perhaps you could make the argument that a vaccination program is in the community interest . I see no rationale that says my neighbor should pay for my sniffles .

Take your argument to it's logical conclusion .If it's in my interest to make sure my neighbor or my neighbor's daughter doesn't get sick then why not mandate that they go for an annual check up and have their records public ? Why not ? If mine and your health is really a matter of public concern then let's post everyone's health records .
Let's really get draconian and demand that my neighbor and child participate in mandatory exercise regime to keep their weight in check . I want details about what they eat and drink.

Back to your fire analogy..
If your house becomes a fire hazard it becomes a community concern subject to enforcement action . You can't wire it without a certified electrician right? and if you attempted to an inspector would stop you and post a bright red notice on your house telling your neighbors of your violation.

Is that what you are advocating ? Nope ,you just want us to pay without demanding any reciprocal responsible actions in return.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by smoothy

YOU are missing the point.....volunteer fire departments are NOT taxpayer supported.

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Hello again, smoothy:

Let's take this a step at a time. It's fine that YOUR firemen don't get paid. There's lots of community's that are served that way. But, there's a lot of other expenses involved with running a fire department than just payroll. Who owns the fire trucks your volunteer department uses? Who pays the 911 operator? Who pays for gasoline that goes into those trucks? Who owns or pays rent on the station WHERE the fire truck is kept? Who buys the firefighters equipment?

I'm going to stop there. I know you don't get it. I'm not trying to convince you, though. That AIN'T going to happen. I'm writing for the other people who're reading this thread.

excon