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Think of striving and surviving as a journey, not a destination, and keep on trucking and working to make better adjustments based on facts and not just emotions. (or rhetoric, or opinions).
If you know from many efforts, repeal is not possible, how would you make the current structure better? My opinion is barring single payer, let Amazon .com handle the tech stuff because they got it going on, and have revolutionized on line shopping.
How many of your own side have to declare this a disaster and how many working Americans have to have their premiums doubled and out of pocket tripled before you stop blowing smoke?Quote:
Originally Posted by talaniman
They won't see it until it hits home to them . Notice the one thing both sides managed to do in a bi-partisan manner was to blow away the Vitter Amendment .
Not so fast on this one Tom, I have read the Vitter fix, and the Grassely fix,
Congress, the Affordable Care Act, and the Myth of the 'Exemption' | Brookings Institution
Quote:
Second and more painfully, the burden of the Vitter Amendment falls on the shoulders of junior staff. This topic receives little attention, but deserves the most. Junior staffers—staff assistants, legislative coordinators, etc.—are paid the least and have fewer alternative employment options, when compared to their senior colleagues. They are hardworking individuals who often spend their days dealing with angry constituents. The Vitter Amendment targets this group the most. Unlike others who work for large employers they will receive no employer contribution for health care.
Will these employees be able to get affordable health care on the Exchanges? Yes. However, they will be excluded from something millions of Americans enjoy: the employer contribution. In the end, budget debates and their associated political antics have victims. Often times, the federal workforce and government efficiency suffer the most.
You miss the obvious fix to mitigate the sticker shock faced by segments of the population, and the obvious fix carriers could have implemented in the case of private buyers without employee based insurance.Quote:
Originally Posted by speechlesstx
Auto enrollment into their own state exchanges and instead of shocking them with sticker shock the letter would have said relax, its been handled and here is your savings. Don't blame business decisions and tactics on the new law.
Relax, the government sent us here to help you, lol.Quote:
Originally Posted by talaniman
P.S. You miss the obvious, automatic enrollment doesn't put the money for the premiums they're FORCED to pay and deductibles in their pockets.
There are only 5 states which will see on average a price decrease under Obamacare... so much for Obamas promise of saving everyone $2,500 on average.
Enrollment in Obamacare Exchanges: How Will Your Health Insurance Fare?.
Bend over supporters... you wanted it... here it comes. Hope you are happy with your price increases. In fact I hope you choke in it.
You pay yours don't you? WHY? Why should you or I pay THEIRS? We do already you know and that's a good thing to YOU?Quote:
Originally Posted by speechlesstx
Before I look is this objective data or one sided winger date you are famous for? Just asking. Never mind, its winger data, isn't it?Quote:
Originally Posted by smoothy
Um, Obamacare is going to be subsidizing a lot more people off our tax dollars.Quote:
Originally Posted by talaniman
P.S. Look, premiums are down in 5 states. And doubled or more in 11 states.
It just keeps getting better and better. All those really, really smart people in the most transparent regime ever wouldn't hire an outside contractor to create the exchange website because they were afraid they might get subpoenaed by Republicans... so they reportedly stole the code and did it themselves.
The code is 10 years old and "may require constant fixes and updates for the next six months and the eventual overhaul of the entire system." Add to that the fact that they intentionally built it to hide the costs before signing up so as not to scare people away from sticker shock and you have got to be shaking your head.Quote:
Facing such intense opposition from congressional Republicans, the administration was in a bunker mentality as it built the enrollment system, one former administration official said. Officials feared that if they called on outsiders to help with the technical details of how to run a commerce website, those companies could be subpoenaed by Hill Republicans, the former aide said. So the task fell to trusted campaign tech experts.
Even as early as 2010, HealthCare.gov was bug-ridden, a harbinger of problems to come. But few read the tea leaves because the site had a small fraction of the traffic it would get in October 2013.
“The wheels were practically coming off the wagon at that point, which should have been a clue that anything more than this — a nicely branded site with a lot of information and not much interactivity — was going to be impossible,” the former official said.
OK true believers, can you really not see valid reasons for our distrust and skepticism?
Beyond the tax subsidy you know that costs are capped according to income right?
Ezra Klein And Avik Roy Go Mano-A-Mano On Obamacare, Rate Shock, And The GOP Agenda (Video & Transcript) - Forbes
Please take time to read the whole thing as it's an interesting and informative conversion, but complex and nerdy. Video available. Or you can keep hollering in generalities.Quote:
It also has out-of-pocket maximums in terms of what you can pay in premiums and out-of-pocket costs in a year. And if you're under 400% of the poverty line, these trigger for you so you can't pay, I think, at the maximum more than 9% of your income in a year.
ROY: [interposing] Nine and a half.
KLEIN: Yeah, nine and a half. And underneath that, it goes much lower. So if you're making 200% of the poverty line and you're a single, young male adult, you can't pay more than—I don't have the table exactly in my head, but it's 4.5%, 5%. [It's 4.0% of income from 150-199% of FPL, and 6.3% from 200-250% of FPL.]
So you're dealing with an actually quite subsidized kind of insurance, and not just through the direct subsidy, but through what can eventually be asked of you.
And I think that's important because we are saying we are going to cap how much you subsidize. It's not just “If you're young, you're going to be giving a huge subsidy to the old.” It's “If you're young and you're having trouble, we're going to help you too.”
@Smoothy, That winger site you linked are extrapolations and completely devoid of income levels or even the data for present costs in age categories fails to take into account that by law have to be included on out of pocket costs calculations. Without those adjustments the chart is incomplete. Maybe after April they can add that data. Until then all the costs are guestimates.
The Obamacare statute states very clearly that all Members of Congress and their staffs are to procure their health insurance through the Obamacare Exchange. Section 1512 of Obamacare says clearly that employees going to the Exchange lose their previous employer subsidy.Quote:
Originally Posted by talaniman
So if they don't like it then let them go work for real employers or let Congress fix the bill legislatively instead of having the emperor make another decree from on high ,in the middle of an August recess, when no one was paying attention . Not only that ,his OPM then made a decree that Congress was a small business that hires less than 50 people to take advantage of the Obamacare provisions related to small businesses. More bs exceptions for the privileged class in the belt way. Who has it better ? The staffer on capitol hill or the person who is now forced to work part time because of this ridiculous law? Would a staffer switch with that worker ? No ;just the opposite . These staffers put their time in Capitol Hill and then leave for lucrative positions on K Street . Screw them . Let them be subject to the same laws as the rest of us.
But Tom you want to negate the whole basis of your society, one law for the rich ,another for the poor, one law for the politicians, another for the plebs. You cannot have one law for all, you have been down that road.. with the black population it took you a hundred years to sort out the mess and you aren't really there yet and yet you want one law for all. You already have it, I think it is called the Constitution and yet you can't agree on how to apply itQuote:
Originally Posted by tomder55
Yes ,mine is one of them because we've had Mario-care for 20 years and were already paying some of the highest premiums because of the mandates... (guaranteed issue and community rating ) . What NY has is now coming to the rest of the country.Quote:
Originally Posted by smoothy
Based on the intentional chicanery I repeat my question, can you really not see reasons for our distrust and skepticism? Only a fool would say we don't have legitimate gripes.
Sky high prices,deductibles that scare off just about everyone that can get through the broken website and now :
Insurers say the federal health-care marketplace is generating flawed data that is straining their ability to handle even the trickle of enrollees who have gotten through so far, in a sign that technological problems extend further than the website traffic and software issues already identified.
Emerging errors include duplicate enrollments, spouses reported as children, missing data fields and suspect eligibility determinations, say executives at more than a dozen health plans
Obamacare woes widen as insurers get wrong data - MarketWatch
But some of the Democrats that live in a fantasy world think things are proceding without major problems.
While many of us acknowledge and share your concerns, we aren't ready to give up after just two weeks, and no doubt you will keep hollering from the sidelines until it is.
But do you have to copy and paste duplicate posts on several threads?
Two threads same topic......so yes I did.Quote:
Originally Posted by talaniman
Less than 1% of those who actually managed to register, which itself was a tiny fraction of those that tried... actually was able to even get insurance.
That is the classic definition of an unmitigated disater... only a liberal could try to spin that into anything else.
Bold prediction... within 3 months ,the emperor will be asking for a 1 year delay.
I bet it doesn't take that long.Quote:
Originally Posted by tomder55
Prediction from experience by April the bugs will be eliminated, and we start getting better data and clearer results.
No delays are foreseen at this time.
Unbelievable...
http://thisistwitchy.files.wordpress...pg?w=746&h=431
So, we didn't want it, didn't vote for it, it was outsourced to Obama donors and former campaign staffers without giving it even a halfway reasonable testing and Republicans blew the Obamacare launch?
You have got to be effing kidding me.
They are pundits, it's an opinion show - what part of that don't you get?
Healthcare.gov website may be more or less operational in a few months ,but that is just the tip of the iceberg compared to all the faulty data the insurance carriers are getting . Wait to you hear the collective howls from the multitudes who are getting bad insurance quotes .Quote:
Originally Posted by talaniman
Behind the curtain, more waving red flags for Obamacare | WashingtonExaminer.comQuote:
Affirming what health industry consultant Bob Laszewski has written, my source said that insurers have received a relatively small trickle of enrollments through the federal website, but they are seeing problems.
Duplicate enrollments are a recurring issue. This means that the insurer is notified that somebody has enrolled in an insurance policy through the government exchange, but then receives another notice that the same person has un-enrolled, followed still later by another one that they re-enrolled, and so on.
As of now, it's unclear whether this duplication problem is triggered by a failure in the way Healthcare.gov interacts with the systems of insurers, or if shoppers on the federal exchange are enrolling and un-enrolling themselves as they go through the selection process. Insurers can't ascertain the ultimate choice of the shopper because there are no time stamps attached to transactions on the site.
Other potential challenges involve whether the website will be able to properly communicate with a massive federal data hub to verify applicants' income accurately, calculate subsidies they may be entitled to under the law, and display the correct plan price.
There's also a question of whether the federal website is properly displaying information about plan deductibles, co-payments, and benefits.
Administration officials have emphasized that Americans have until the end of next March to purchase health plans through the exchanges.
But insurers are focused on a much earlier date: Jan. 1. That's when the insurance plans will start to become active. The nightmare scenario for insurers would be if, at the beginning of the new year, they are bombarded by complaints from consumers who, based on information displayed on the federal website, were expecting a certain set of benefits that don't correspond to the plans to which they signed up.
This doesn't even get to the broader health policy issue. The success of Obamacare hinges on the exchanges being able to enroll enough young and healthy individuals to offset the cost of covering older and sicker patients, particularly those with pre-existing conditions.
Given that Americans with higher medical costs are more likely to endure an arduous enrollment process than healthier individuals, sustained technological problems could be devastating to the program.
That should keep all those IRS agents they hired to adminster the national health care system busy . (does something sound wrong with that? )
Well Tom it's going to be back to manual systems to meet deadlines, that will mean using people instead of computers. Technology has failed again
So, hiring people to do this manually is a bad thing?Quote:
that will mean using people instead of computers. Technology has failed again
Job creation. Like we used to do things with pen and paper.Quote:
Originally Posted by J_9
Yeah, I get that. That was my point.Quote:
Job creation. Like we used to do things with pen and paper.
I know, but wanted to drive the point home.Quote:
Originally Posted by J_9
Nope that is not a solution. A system as large as the one being implemented cannot run with a system that could not manage a small medical practice today. Electronic management of data is here to stay.
There are thousands of people administering the VA system. What we are learning (and probably instinctively knew) is that the privacy of the patient is compromised with large bureaucracies .Imagine the exponential increases in occurrences in the national healthcare system being crafted .
Last week, the Pittsburgh Tribune-Review published a detailed analysis of all VA breaches from 2010 to May 31, 2013. It tallied more than 14,000 privacy violations o at 167 VA facilities affecting more than 101,000 veterans and 551 VA employees .
Privacy breaches in VA health records wound veterans | TribLIVE
There was a complete lack of accountability with only 1 in 365 privacy violations being reported to VA's Office of Inspector General .
That's a lot of breaches affecting a lot of individuals. And that's not good.
The Tribune-Review also reports that in some of the worst cases, photos of the anatomy of some victims were posted on social media and stolen IDs were used for fraudulent credit cards.
You see J9 Tom doesn't think it is a good idea, anything rational is outside his purvue, which of course is to dump buckets of... on BO and the Democrats for being stupid enough to think that a form of universal health care might actually work in that glorious utopia of equality and fairness. I think we should ask, was the software contract given to Bangalore, because to write software you actually have to know what it is you are doing before you start. Not an Indian traint, but never the lessQuote:
Originally Posted by tomder55
And as to breaches in privacy, if the government doesn't respect privacy in one place why would they respect it anywhereelse, definitely living in fantacyland
The Obots gave a no bid contract to cronies who were fired for doing shoddy work in Canada .Quote:
think we should ask, was the software contract given to Bangalore,
Showing your racism again I see. Maybe the Obots should've hired an Australian for the task... someone like Julian Assange perhaps.Quote:
because to write software you actually have to know what it is you are doing before you start. Not an Indian traint, but never the less
Noted obamacare supporter Ezra Klein raised a good point, since glitchapalooza is feeding bad data all around, what happens if you thought you'd purchased your mandated coverage and it turns out when you need it you don't actually have it?
Klein: Obamacare Glitches Could Constitute a ‘Betrayal of Faith’ | Washington Free Beacon
Quote:
Originally Posted by tomder55
No Tom they should have hired me then they would have go a quality product. I took a look at the product before the deadline. Maybe I was lucky but it didn't fall over on me. I suspect the problem lies in scaling it up for large scale similtaneous usage as well as people gaming the system. As to racism, call it experience. The experience of an Indian in India has little relevance to the way business operates in the western world and you say poor work was done in Canada, there is a large south asian population in Canada.
You don't like Julian Assange because he has exposed you for what you are, get over it
Hello again,
My friends on the right wonder why I don't believe the hundreds of stories, and the thousands of interviews with millions of people who are going to get HURT with Obamacare.
The reason is the Fox News lie machine. To wit: Hannity had some couples on his show to talk about the dreaded Obamacare... But, upon checking their stories, it turns out Hannity is a LIAR. Here's a short exerpt:The other two stories are equally FALSE.Quote:
First I spoke with Paul Cox of Leicester, N.C. He and his wife Michelle had lamented to Hannity that because of Obamacare, they can't grow their construction business and they have kept their employees below a certain number of hours, so that they are part-timers.
Obamacare has no effect on businesses with 49 employees or less. But in our brief conversation on the phone, Paul revealed that he has only four employees. Why the cutback on his workforce? “Well,” he said, “I haven't been forced to do so, it's just that I've chosen to do so. I have to deal with increased costs.” What costs? And how, I asked him, is any of it due to Obamacare? There was a long pause, after which he said he'd call me back. He never did.
There is only one Obamacare requirement that applies to a company of this size: workers must be notified of the existence of the “healthcare.gov” website, the insurance exchange. That's all.
excon
This forum, and the rest of the sight has glitches from time to time and takes a while to get them fixed. So does your cable, the retail sights, and the whole freakin' internet.
Start ups are expensive, ask Silicon Valley, maintenance is too. So why beeyatch about the baby not being able to walk or hold down a job after the doctor slaps him on the A$$ at birth? You better stock up on diapers and butt wipes while they eat, sleep, and crap up the place for a year or two. On there time not yours.
The right is quick to beeyatch, but slow to adjust, and plain lousy at counting anything. I mean shutting down the government sure didn't help anything did it?
Why beeyatch ? You must be kidding.The nation is invested in this boondoggle .
And yet they launched a massive web site without beta testing it. And mind you ,the web site snafus is probably the least of the disasters that will befall on us over this ill conceived national power grab,
There it is, the ACA is a boondoggle, and of course the access website is a boondoggle despite the suggestion the contractor is in Canada. I had the idea Tom that a boondoggle was unnecessary expenditure that benefited a small group or region for political purposes, and yet, this is intended to benefit millions across the entire nation. I expect boondoggles in the land of boondoggles have grown since I first heard the term. So let's see, is the national debt a boondoggle? is the border fence a boondoggle? Perhaps the Department of Homeland Security is a boondoggle? I know where the greatest boondoggle of all is. It is the Capital building wherein are located the greatest collection of useless politicians on EarthQuote:
Originally Posted by tomder55
There testing it now. By the time you Sarah and Ted get back from your Grand Canyon tour, and count some junk tanks we should be good to go.
Okay I'll confess we just want to see if we can hear the echo around the world and watch you guys run right of each other.
You go on line before you beta test ? Your fired !
Expert: Obamacare Website Is 'Not Even Ready For Beta Testing' « CBS New York
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