It is early in the process. At least Ex admits that given the scenario I laid out ,it is indeed voter suppression by the party in power.
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It is early in the process. At least Ex admits that given the scenario I laid out ,it is indeed voter suppression by the party in power.
Hello again, tom:
It's dirty tricks worthy of jail. The only thing you lack is PROOF.. Bummer that you ain't got any.Quote:
At least Ex admits that given the scenario I laid out ,it is indeed voter suppression by the party in power.
Yawwwwwwwwn.
Excon
Issa's Committee voted on Friday that Lois Lerner waived her Fifth Amendment rights during a hearing last month .After Lerner read her opening statement, Rep. Trey Gowdy argued that she'd waived her Fifth Amendment rights and should be compelled to testify. Issa decided to recess the hearing rather than adjourn, which means that Lerner is still under the original subpoena.
The Friday vote paves the way for the committee to bring Lerner back to Congress and force her to answer questions from lawmakers or face contempt charges .
Hello again, tom:
Hello again, tom:Quote:
Issa's Committee voted on Friday that Lois Lerner waived her Fifth Amendment rights during a hearing last month
Good thing her rights aren't dependent on a committee vote.
I listened to Gowdy on the weekend shows... First off, he says he CAN'T make her talk, which is absolutely UNTRUE.. Then he mentions use immunity, but said he's not going to offer it unless he KNOWS what she's going to say.. So, he's going to compel her to tell him what she knows BEFORE he gives her immunity for telling him...
Wha??
Excon
My take is simpler . She testified under oath .Once she made an opening statement then she effectively waved her right to plea the 5th . But since the WH is stonewalling she's covered . If the House charges contempt then the case goes to Holder's Justice Dept for investigation. WE know how far that will go . He of course has already been charged by the House with the same and will do nothing .
Since it is impossible to force the adm to appoint an independent prosecutor ,then most likely they will get away with it . But you should stop your meme that we isn't got nothing . What " we " don't have is the power to force the adm to investigate itself in a fair and impartial manner .
The only card Congress has is the power of the purse . And I don't think Speaker Bonehead has the stones to defund the IRS . The other possibility would be to create a constitutional crisis by having the Sergeant at Arms of Congress arrest her .The House has arrested and held executive-branch officials twice in U.S. history.A more feeble response would be for the House to sue and let the courts handle it .
None of this will happen of course . The very least they should do is call her back and force her to plea the 5th to a thousand + questions.Let her sit though a marathon hearing while one member of the committee after another grill her.
In the meantime you will get release of the transcript from questioning of the other witnesses called so far, that paint a picture that Issa doesn't want to reveal, or discuss.
Cummings Releases Transcripts of IRS Interviews
Dana Milbank: Issa
There doesn't see too be a full story with you guys, only your version.
There was no there, there with Cummings' attempt to undermine the investigation. That's the whole argument for every scandal in this administration, "nothing to see here, move on."Quote:
Originally Posted by talaniman
Nice try, but let's finish the investigation and watch Democrats running for reelection on their defense of the IRS.
Cool with me.
Hello again, tom:
It's just not true. You, make it sound like congress is feckless, and has NO power to carry out its constitutional mandates... King Obama REIGNS...Quote:
The only card Congress has is the power of the purse . And I don't think Speaker Bonehead has the stones to defund the IRS . The other possibility would be to create a constitutional crisis by having the Sergeant at Arms of Congress arrest her .
But, if all you wanted to do was SOUND tough, you'd say the things you and Gowdy, and Issa are saying... If you wanted to KNOW what actually happened, you'd stop talking and go to work.. You'd SUBPOENA her. You'd give her USE IMMUNITY. Then if she didn't answer EVERYTHING, the committee asks, the sergeant at arms puts her in jail for contempt of congress. If it causes a constitutional crisis, then that's what it's SUPPOSED to do. If Obama is a CROOK, and a LIAR, and CORRUPT, it's HE who is causing the constitutional crisis - NOT congress...
But, if you KNEW you were dead in the water, and you KNEW there's no there, there, then you'd SOUND tough, and throw up your hands and DO nothing... Kind of like you're doing.
Excon
What about the testimony of Elizabeth Hofacre, or Gary Muthert ? Who at the IRS,developed the intrusive and exhaustive questions that were sent to the TP groups? Why did so many of those groups have to wait years for their applications to be processed, and why are many more still waiting? Who were the IRS officials in Washington directing the Cincinnati agents targeting theTP groups ?
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB1000...pinion_LEADTop
Cummings can run intereference for the adm all he wants to... he is just another cog in the coverup . Until we know who ordered the targeting of conservative groups and donors, what Lerner, Schulman, and the White House knew and when they knew it, whether this is still going on, and what is being done to ensure it never happens again, the case isn't closed. You can yawn all you want to ,but even Cummings admits the case isn't closed .
Rep. Elijah Cummings clarifies: IRS case not 'solved' - Rachael Bade - POLITICO.com
Why offer her immunity ? What if you are right and the chain ends with her ? Then there is no accountability . She don't need immunity if she did nothing wrong.Quote:
Originally Posted by excon
Hello again, tom:
It depends. Does Issa want BLOOD, or the truth..Quote:
why offer her immunity ? What if you are right and the chain ends with her ?
Excon
I wonder if you were saying the same thing when they gave immunity to Ollie North. Nahh treat it like the criminal investigation it is . I'd have a sit down with her and her lawyer and give her a heads up about what she can expect if she continues to stonewall. Maybe they can work out a limited immunity deal . But full immunity... no way !
Hard to get truth from an entire administration that knows nothing, doesn't recall, can't remember, or just doesn't have an answer.
Now that's what I call transparency.
And the cover-up/stonewalling continues :
FBI Still Hasn't Contacted IRS-Targeted Tea Party Groups About Investigation | CNS NewsQuote:
More than a month and a half after it was announced that the Federal Bureau of Investigation (FBI) would launch an investigation into the Internal Revenue Service's (IRS) targeting of conservative groups, the groups and their legal representatives are still waiting to hear from the FBI.
Are you complaining about procedure? Do you think investigation is conducted by interviewing complainants when what is been investigated is the internal procedures?
Just looking at a date on an application will tell them what the complainant will tell them, it's been a long time
Huh ? You conduct an investigation without interviewing the victim ?
I get the idea this is a victimless crime, I think the FBI are trying to decide if a crime has been committed and if so by who. I doubt the victim can identify the perp
It is not victimless . Hundreds of conservative and Christian groups were denied equal protection of the law. If this happened to an organization like NAACP I assure you the Holder Justice Dept would be all over this .Quote:
Originally Posted by paraclete
Victimless? One 'non-victim' had 17 encounters with the government including the FBI, IRS, OSHA, Commission on Environmental Quality, and the ATF after applying for the exemption.. I remember the president personally intervening when a belligerent black professor was arrested for refusing to cooperate with police.This goes way beyond that.Quote:
Originally Posted by paraclete
The point is that might be so but conducting hundreds of interviews will do nothing towards prosecuting the people who did it. Don't you think there are more important crimes to investigate, crimes with real victims who need the protection of the law. Yes it is unfortunate that someone didn't get a benefit they might have been entitled to and just maybe some law was violated. This time the system worked for the left, in the past it has worked for the right. A foul has been called. If the FBI wasn't stuffing about with this they might have caught that leaker before he got away or does the NSA investigate itsself so those who violate the law aren't caughtQuote:
Originally Posted by tomder55
Hello again,
I too wonder why congress doesn't get to the bottom of it. Issa HAS the power to investigate. He HAS the power to jail people if they don't cooperate. He HAS subpoena power. He HAS the power of the purse. If the IRS IS targeting people because of their politics, then I want to KNOW who's doing it.
WHAT is Issa hiding? Why won't he investigate? What is he afraid of? Who is he protecting?
excon
The most tedious fall back position here is "the other side does it too" .
Nah ,the FBI never saw the Boston Marathon bombers come and go even when they were warned about them. Their failure in other cases has nothing to do with their inaction on this case. This is more in line with Holder's refusal to prosecute the New Black Panthers intimidation of voters in Philadelphia. Holder investigates and prosecutes according to a political agenda instead of a fair and impartial rule of law.Quote:
If the FBI wasn't stuffing about with this they might have caught that leaker before he got away or does the NSA investigate itsself so those who violate the law aren't caught
Hard to investigate when the enforcement arm of the government is part of the stonewalling .Quote:
Originally Posted by excon
I guess you have no concept of the power the IRS holds.Quote:
Originally Posted by paraclete
Hello again, tom:
Nahhh... Issa has his OWN investigators, if he chooses to use them. He doesn't need the FBI. He doesn't need ANYBODY. The Constitution gives HIM the POWER. The question you should be asking, is why doesn't he USE it?Quote:
hard to investigate when the enforcement arm of the government is part of the stonewalling .
Why are you covering for Issa..
Excon
You know the FBI investigation is the Obama admin investigating itself, launched by Eric Holder. It's relevant to ask why they haven't done anything.
It is also clear that a special independent prosecutor is required. However ,Congress cannot appoint one.. It has to come from the executive.
Hello again, Steve:Uhhh, because they're investigating themselves?? Why are YOU covering for Issa?Quote:
It's relevant to ask why they haven't done anything.
Excon
Hello again, tom:
Not to me.. Do you think the founders FAILED to give congress the ability to oversee the executive?? Issa HAS power, and PLENTY of it.. Yet, he WON'T use it.Quote:
it is also clear that a special independent prosecutor is required.
Why are you covering for him?
Excon
Short of a constitutional crisis by sending the Sgt at Arms to arrest Holder ,what do you think he should do?? Oh yeah... and short of giving immunity to everyone involved .Quote:
Originally Posted by excon
And if he did take over for the FBI he'd call it overreach.Quote:
Originally Posted by tomder55
Hello again, tom:
I sound like YOU.Quote:
short of a constitutional crisis by sending the Sgt at Arms to arrest Holder ,what do you think he should do??
You start at the beginning. You give Lois Lerner immunity and find out what SHE knows and follow the trail. If it gets to Holder or Obama, THEN you subpoena them.
Do you not know this? Why are you covering for Issa?
Excon
Hello again, tom:
I could have edited my comments above, but THIS deserves its own post...Quote:
and short of giving immunity to everyone involved .
Look. You don't want Lois Lerner. You don't want a middle manager. You don't even want the TOP IRS guy. You want HOLDER and/or OBAMA.. If that's your goal, and it IS, then you give immunity to EVERYBODY until you GET them.
If your goal is to holler and scream and do NOTHING, then you'd make noises like YOU and Issa are making.. I say again, WHY are you covering for Issa?
Excon
Would YOU give immunity before you know what she will testify ? Probably not .Quote:
Originally Posted by excon
She already sounds like a mafioso under testimony . I can hear it now... Alright Ms Lerner ... you have complete immunity . What do you know ? http://fritzbreland.files.wordpress....gt_schultz.gif
Hello again, tom:
If I didn't know WHO she'd SNITCH on, and I REALLY, REALLY wanted to know, then OF COURSE I would... Besides, if she knows NOTHING, then you've LOST nothing by giving her immunity...Quote:
would YOU give immunity before you know what she will testify ?
Poor right wingers... You can't give her immunity WITHOUT knowing what she'll say, but you can't know what she'll say WITHOUT giving her immunity... So, the thing to do, is NOTHING.
Excon
Like you'd let someone off the hook before knowing what it is they have to offer.
Issa has found out that it's easier to accuse, call names, throw rocks, and get you guys all pumped up, and excited than to actually get the result he wants. Or maybe he got what he wanted his face on camera, accusing, calling names, and getting wingers pumped up and excited.
Just another tough talking guy who got power and tries to be a bully, like the rest of the wingers on the right. You guys love your bullies. But like most they can't do a darn thing when people refuse to be bullied by your tough guys.
I get it, you're OK with the IRS being the new Gestapo.Quote:
Originally Posted by talaniman
It happens often here I notice.
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