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  • Aug 29, 2012, 11:37 AM
    NeedKarma
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by speechlesstx View Post
    "Congress specifically shielded TANF from the waiver process to keep work requirements intact, this administration unilaterally overwrote the will of congress."

    That sir is fact.

    This is what's in that information memorandum:

    Quote:

    HHS is encouraging states to consider new, more effective ways to meet the goals of TANF, particularly helping parents successfully prepare for, find, and retain employment. Therefore, HHS is issuing this information memorandum to notify states of the Secretary’s willingness to exercise her waiver authority under section 1115 of the Social Security Act to allow states to test alternative and innovative strategies, policies, and procedures that are designed to improve employment outcomes for needy families.
    Does that look like "Obama ended welfare work requirements"? Of course not.
    You just can't take what your right-wing blogs say as gospel - you have to do your own research and go to the sources.
  • Aug 29, 2012, 11:47 AM
    speechlesstx
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by NeedKarma View Post
    TDoes that look like "Obama ended welfare work requirements"? Of course not.

    Did Mitt Romney kill a steelworker's wife? At least this has a measure of truth - Obama's HHS did specifically, unilaterally, overwrite Congress' express intent to keep the work requirements intact.

    Quote:

    You just can't take what your right-wing blogs say as gospel - you have to do your own research and go to the sources.
    I'm really bored with that smug cliché of yours. Yaaaaawwwwwnnnn...
  • Aug 29, 2012, 12:09 PM
    speechlesstx
    And by the way, I don't put a whole lot of stock in Politifact and WaPa as fact checkers. Politifact has leaned way leftward for a long time and WaPo's fact checker called Romney a liar for saying a president who didn't go to Israel didn't go to Israel.
  • Aug 29, 2012, 12:13 PM
    NeedKarma
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by speechlesstx View Post
    And by the way, I don't put a whole lot of stock in Politifact and WaPa as fact checkers. Politifact has leaned way leftward for a long time and WaPo's fact checker

    I quoted the actual government memo.
  • Aug 29, 2012, 01:30 PM
    speechlesstx
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by NeedKarma View Post
    I quoted the actual government memo.

    I know, after citing Politifact as proof.
  • Aug 29, 2012, 02:44 PM
    speechlesstx
    Let's forget for a moment that in response to Romney attacking the welfare changes that the left has given a full throated lie that Romney is racist for doing so, and get to the facts. Turns out the NY Times unwittingly validated the claim the Obama gutted work requirements.

    Quote:

    The smoking gun is always in the last place you look: I had some serious doubts about Mitt Romney’s ad attacking Obama’s welfare “waivers”–until I read the New York Times editorial denouncing it. Now I know Romney’s ad isn’t as accurate as I’d thought. It’s much more accurate.

    The Times notes that one of the states proposing waivers from the 1996 welfare reform’s work requirements is Nevada–indeed, Nevada was cited by the Obama Health and Human Services department when it quietly announced its plan to grant waivers on July 12 .** Here’s how the Times describes what Nevada wants to do:

    [Nevada] asked to discuss flexibility in imposing those requirements. Perhaps, the state asked, those families hardest to employ could be exempted from the work requirements for six months while officials worked with them to stabilize their households. [E.A.]
    “Exempted from the work requirements for six months.” That’s not just “weakening” work requirements–the safe, milder charge I chose to make a couple of days ago. It’s explicitly tossing them out the window for an extended period–“to allow time for their barriers to be addressed and their household circumstances stabilized”, in Nevada’s words.***

    For those six months it’s also, unaccountably, exactly what Romney says will happen in his ad:

    You wouldn’t have to work and wouldn’t have to train for a job. They just send you your welfare check.
    Romney’s admakers will have to do better than that if they want to earn their Pinocchios.

    P.S.: And here I thought my friend Jonathan Alter was a victim of the liberal cocoon when he rushed to Twitter a few days ago to idiotically declare that the waivers “don’t weaken work requirements.” But it turns out the truth is so obvious you don’t even have to leave the cocoon to find it. All you have to do is read what the New York Times says while denying it. I apologize to the cocoon. ****

    __________

    **–As part of HHS secretary Sebelius’ subsequent damage-control effort, she hinted that “it appears some of the policies enumerated in the letters [from Utah and Nevada] would not be eligible for waivers under our policy.” She wouldn’t say which ones, though. I’d argue that HHS original statements, which Sebelius did not repudiate, are a better indication of HHS’ intent than her later PR backpedaling. The Times certainly thinks Nevada’s proposal is alive and well.

    ***–Here are the exact words in Nevada’s letter:

    TANF Performance Measures and Possible Waiver Opportunities …

    Exempt the hardest-to-employ population for a period of time (i.e. six months) to allow time for their barriers to be addressed and their household circumstances stabilized; …

    Note that “six months” isn’t an upper limit on the “exempt” period. Could be sixteen months. Note also that the NYT makes it sound as if Nevada might actually be requiring welfare recipients do something during this period–”while officials worked with them.” But the actual Nevada letter doesn’t say anything except that they need “time for their barriers to be addressed.”

    More generally, Nevada proposes a broad, excuse-laden “progression” system in which all recipients with “employment barriers” are given “more time and assistance”–translation, more welfare with fewer obligations to work or train for work or look for work. What are “employment barriers”? They include lack of child care, transportation, drug addiction, “special needs such as clothing and tools,” and lack of “job seeking/retention skills.” Obesity can also be a “barrier.”

    ****–Maybe that’s why Newt Gingrich, apparently wrongly, said there was “no proof” that Obama might be “be comfortable sending a lot of people checks for doing nothing.” He’s not in the cocoon.
    Told you so: "Congress specifically shielded TANF from the waiver process to keep work requirements intact, this administration unilaterally overwrote the will of congress."

    I love being right.
  • Aug 29, 2012, 03:27 PM
    NeedKarma
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by speechlesstx View Post
    Told ya so: "Congress specifically shielded TANF from the waiver process to keep work requirements intact, this administration unilaterally overwrote the will of congress."

    I love being right.

    We aren't debating whether congress overwrote something, the topic was Romney saying that Obama "ended welfare work requirements". He clearly didn't.
  • Aug 29, 2012, 07:30 PM
    paraclete
    Letting the facts get in the way of the hyperbole again, how tiresome
  • Aug 30, 2012, 06:06 AM
    excon
    Hello again,

    So, Texas DOES discriminate, says a federal court... Who knew?

    excon
  • Aug 30, 2012, 06:23 AM
    speechlesstx
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by NeedKarma View Post
    We aren't debating whether congress overwrote something, the topic was Romney saying that Obama "ended welfare work requirements". He clearly didn't.

    Dude, you can't read can you.
  • Aug 30, 2012, 06:24 AM
    NeedKarma
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by speechlesstx View Post
    Dude, you can't read can you.

    If you have nothing to offer maybe you can comment on excon's post.
  • Aug 30, 2012, 06:35 AM
    speechlesstx
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by excon View Post
    Hello again,

    So, Texas DOES discriminate, says a federal court... Who knew?

    excon

    As if no other party in power configures redistricting to their advantage? Dude, get serious. I vividly recall when Democrats were in power here the redistricting maps they drew were insane. What's even more insane is the latest being overthrown on discrimination because Hispanics can't vote for Hispanics? What, they have to vote for someone of their skin color?

    That's the same goofy nonsense some Hispanic jackwagon of an attorney in our city has been trying to do for years, create single member districts so everyone can vote along racial lines. What?? Why?? I helped vote in a Hispanic county commissioner this year and a Hispanic city commissioner last year, so who's the racist, those who don't give a crap about what color you are or those who do?
  • Aug 30, 2012, 06:46 AM
    NeedKarma
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by speechlesstx View Post
    As if no other party in power configures redistricting to their advantage? Dude, get serious.

    Do you realize that that is your answer to every single transgression by a conservative?
  • Aug 30, 2012, 07:11 AM
    speechlesstx
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by NeedKarma View Post
    Do you realize that that is your answer to every single transgression by a conservative?

    Do you realize that most of your responses are irrelevant? But please feel free to show us every single one of those answers you're referring to.
  • Aug 30, 2012, 07:26 AM
    NeedKarma
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by speechlesstx View Post
    Do you realize that most of your responses are irrelevant? But please feel free to show us every single one of those answers you're referring to.

    You never notice that? Whenever a conservative gets caught doing a no-no your response is pretty much always "they all do it" or show an example of a liberal doing the same thing, usually accompanied with a 'get over it" type of statement. But yet your life here is spent searching out liberal no-nos. Do you see anything odd here?
  • Aug 30, 2012, 09:20 AM
    speechlesstx
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by NeedKarma View Post
    You never notice that? Whenever a conservative gets caught doing a no-no your response is pretty much always "they all do it" or show an example of a liberal doing the same thing, usually accompanied with a 'get over it" type of statement. But yet your life here is spent searching out liberal no-nos. Do you see anything odd here?

    I don't consider you a reliable source for anything but nonsense, just like this. Back it up with something besides your gibberish or back off.
  • Aug 30, 2012, 09:27 AM
    NeedKarma
    Nah, I'll just wait until you do it again.
    You want to call nonsense or irrelevant whenever I catch posting disinformation, that's your choice.
  • Aug 30, 2012, 09:43 AM
    speechlesstx
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by NeedKarma View Post
    Nah, I'll just wait until you do it again.
    You want to call nonsense or irrelevant whenever I catch posting disinformation, that's your choice.

    Just another baseless piece of gibberish. You're behavior here borders on creeping you know.
  • Aug 30, 2012, 09:56 AM
    NeedKarma
    How so Steve?
  • Aug 30, 2012, 06:18 PM
    excon
    Hello again,

    First, their redistricting was found to DISCRIMINATE, now their voter ID law has been BLOCKED. Poor Texas..

    The court held,
    Quote:

    that Texas had failed to show that the statute would not harm the voting rights of minorities in the state. In addition, the judges found that evidence indicated that the cost of obtaining a photo ID to vote would fall most heavily on African American and Hispanic voters.
    Who could have guessed THAT?

    Excon
  • Aug 30, 2012, 08:33 PM
    talaniman
    Next step is the Supreme Court I believe.
  • Aug 31, 2012, 06:35 AM
    excon
    Hello again,

    Wow.. Florida too.. Poor Floridians...

    Quote:

    A federal district judge in Florida temporarily blocked the law in May because it was unconstitutional and announced on Tuesday that he plans to issue a permanent injunction.

    Two weeks ago, another three-judge panel of the federal district court in the District of Columbia unanimously rejected part of the Florida law that allowed local supervisors to significantly limit times for early voting, with a disproportionate impact on blacks in five counties of concern to the court. In those in 2008, more than half of black voters cast an early ballot, compared with just over one-fourth of white voters.
    Excon
  • Aug 31, 2012, 07:03 AM
    speechlesstx
    So Florida is racist because there are five counties with lots of blacks that apparently didn't know 4 years ago we were having an election this year and couldn't be ready to vote during the scheduled voting period.

    I'm sorry, but voting is not that complicated. I give people more credit than that. You guys apparently think people are such helpless fools they can't figure out how to vote within the allotted time and rules... or you just want more time to figure out how to get more dead people on the rolls to vote.
  • Aug 31, 2012, 07:12 AM
    excon
    Hello again, Steve:

    I was wondering where you were.. Making trades, huh?

    Look... It's NOT me.. I'm just the messenger.. It's U.S. District Judge Robert L. Hinkle. But, it's the TEXAS decision that ought to get your goat.. I mentioned it on page 42.

    excon
  • Aug 31, 2012, 07:23 AM
    tomder55
    No problem... photo id has already been found constitutional in Indiana and Georgia . At most Texas has to tweek it's law to make it compliant.
  • Aug 31, 2012, 07:34 AM
    speechlesstx
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by excon View Post
    Hello again, Steve:

    I was wondering where you were.. Making trades, huh??

    Look... It's NOT me.. I'm just the messenger.. It's U.S. District Judge Robert L. Hinkle. But, it's the TEXAS decision that ought to get your goat.. I mentioned it on page 42.

    excon

    I believe I responded, yes in fact I did.And then NK came in and started his usual juvenile games.
  • Aug 31, 2012, 07:40 AM
    talaniman
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by speechlesstx View Post
    So Florida is racist because there are five counties with lots of blacks that apparently didn't know 4 years ago we were having an election this year and couldn't be ready to vote during the scheduled voting period.

    I'm sorry, but voting is not that complicated. I give people more credit than that. You guys apparently think people are such helpless fools they can't figure out how to vote within the allotted time and rules...or you just want more time to figure out how to get more dead people on the rolls to vote.

    That's so much Malarkey. You haven't been following this battle that started with Florida purging voters 200,000. The system was flawed so they rejected it.

    I don't think its necessarily racist, but more partisan shenanigans to tilt the playing field republican, by republican run states. This is all about getting the Black guy out of the White House, and has been since he won. Does his race play a role in that? Maybe, but I think the plot would be the same for any democrat, but racism is a tool you guys have used quite effectively to poison the well.

    I wonder how many dead guys are voting for you to impact millions of voters? And you guys see nothing wrong with that? I expect a lot more efficiency from guys who are serious about being fair.

    So what's your excuse for changing the voting hours Mr. Dead man voters?
  • Aug 31, 2012, 06:48 PM
    excon
    Hello again,

    Oh no, Strike THREE! Now, it's Ohio..
    Quote:

    District Court Judge Peter C. Economus granted a preliminary injunction against a state law passed last year that would only allow early in-person voting by members of the military and their families. The injunction orders Ohio Secretary of State Jon Husted (R) to not enforce the law.
    Poor Ohioans..

    Excon
  • Sep 1, 2012, 02:45 AM
    tomder55
    Why do you want to suppress the military vote ?
  • Sep 1, 2012, 02:54 AM
    NeedKarma
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by tomder55 View Post
    why do you want to suppress the military vote ?

    Why ONLY the military?
  • Sep 1, 2012, 03:11 AM
    tomder55
    I'm not in favor of any early voting (except absentee voting ) . The Constitution gives Congress the authority to set the election day. Congress made it a law that Election Day is the Tuesday after the first Monday in November. There is no provision in the law that allows for early voting .

    My comment was a tongue in cheek parody of the arguments being made here... that it is a burden on military personel to get to the polls on election day and that they need special accommodations lest they be disenfranchised.
  • Sep 1, 2012, 04:28 AM
    paraclete
    Party pooper
  • Sep 10, 2012, 02:48 PM
    speechlesstx
    Democrats in Maryland just admitted that voter fraud exists... and one of their own (former) candidates for congress is allegedly guilty.

    Quote:

    Maryland Democrat quits congressional race amid vote fraud allegations

    By Ben Pershing

    A Maryland Democratic candidate quit her congressional race Monday after her own party told state officials that she had committed fraud by voting in both Maryland and Florida in recent elections.

    Wendy Rosen, a small-business owner running against freshman Rep. Andy Harris (R) in the Eastern Shore-based 1st Congressional District, released a statement saying that “with great regret, and much sorrow” she was resigning from the contest.

    “Personal issues have made this the hardest decision that I have had to make,” Rosen said [in a statement.]

    Rosen’s announcement came the same day the state Democratic party released a letter to state Attorney General Douglas Gansler and state prosecutors reporting the allegations against Rosen.

    “The Maryland Democratic Party has discovered that Ms. Rosen has been registered to vote in both Florida and Maryland since at least 2006; that she in fact voted in the 2006 general election both in Florida and Maryland; and that she voted in the presidential preference primaries held in both Florida and Maryland in 2008,” wrote Yvette Lewis, the state party chair. “This information is based on an examination of the voter files from both states. We believe that this is a clear violation of Maryland law and urge the appropriate office to conduct a full investigation.”
    Apparently the poor thing doesn't remember if she voted twice in two states or not. But kudos to the Maryland Dems for taking action. If only Dems were as concerned as much about all those dead people, felons, non-citizens and those voting multiple times we might get somewhere.
  • Sep 10, 2012, 08:37 PM
    talaniman
    There has to be a better process than the ones you guys are using that makes a hardship for those that are legal voters. Then you may get more support.
  • Sep 11, 2012, 05:05 AM
    excon
    Hello again,

    What is it when you SAY you live in your sons basement in one state so you can claim residence there to RUN for office, when you clearly live in another state??

    I'd say that's voter/election fraud.. Do you know WHICH presidential candidate DID that??

    What do you call it when you file STATE income taxes IN one state, but you said you filed in another in order to be eligible to RUN for office in that state??

    I'd call it a flat out lie.. Which presidential candidate did that?

    excon
  • Sep 11, 2012, 05:21 AM
    paraclete
    Is this twenty questions Ex tell us the answer, with evidence of course
  • Sep 11, 2012, 05:31 AM
    excon
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by paraclete View Post
    is this twenty questions Ex tell us the answer, with evidence of course

    Hello clete:

    With only TWO guys in the running, I thought it would be easy...

    The basement cheating?? It was Mitt Romney, of course... The Lying? It was, of course, Mitt Romney.

    excon
  • Sep 11, 2012, 05:33 AM
    paraclete
    I don't really know the dirt on either, but thanks for the heads up. Mr Romney not living up to his image, I mean this and that dog thing, he doesn't respect voters and he doesn't respect animals and of course there is Bain, kind of make you wonder, while with Obama you have had four years to get to know him
  • Sep 11, 2012, 06:15 AM
    speechlesstx
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by excon View Post
    Hello clete:

    With only TWO guys in the running, I thought it would be easy...

    The basement cheating?? It was Mitt Romney, of course... The Lying? It was, of course, Mitt Romney.

    Excon

    From your source:

    Quote:

    Romney refused to release his returns, and the Massachusetts Democratic Party launched a month-long investigation that backfired. The state Ballot Law Commission ruled unanimously in June that Romney was still eligible to run for governor because he had "never severed his ties to Massachusetts," despite the primary-residency filing in Utah for three years

    Read more: Mitt Romney Refused Tax Return Release In 2002 Running For Massachusetts Governor - Business Insider
    As to the basement thing, as long as he didn't vote more than once what's the problem?
  • Sep 11, 2012, 06:33 AM
    excon
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by speechlesstx View Post
    As to the basement thing, as long as he didn't vote more than once what's the problem?

    Hello again, Steve:

    Yeah, he got away with it, because he AMENDED his returns to reflect what he SAID they said, but didn't. After he amended them, they said what he said they said, but DIDN'T say earlier...

    Look, I'm all for a guy who slips and slides around the law. I just don't think he should be president...

    But, on to the thread at hand... I think all of the states voter suppression efforts will be heard in total by the Supreme Court and be ruled on BEFORE the election.. I think they'll be overturned, but the damage is already done.

    excon

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