There is also a consequence for not listening when one airs their grievances. When you ignore or dismiss anyone, they tend to get louder, and more uncooperative. Don't look like they are going away any time soon.
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There is also a consequence for not listening when one airs their grievances. When you ignore or dismiss anyone, they tend to get louder, and more uncooperative. Don't look like they are going away any time soon.
Psssst, it starts during infancy.Quote:
Originally Posted by talaniman
Hello again,Quote:
Originally Posted by tomder55
There are some who think city laws requiring permits, and zoning laws, and school rules, and the like, all trump the Constitution... Then there are the people who UNDERSTAND the Constitution and what the founders had in mind. That would be me.
The First Amendment is the first amendment, for a reason. I can figure out why they wrote it first... Can you?
excon
As you know ,no rights are absolute. Bloomy waited most of a day waiting for the court system to decide on his decision to clear Zuccotti park.
No doubt the protesters at UC Davis will challenge the decision in court ;and I have my suspicions that the actions of the campus cop exceeded legal bounds and he will likely face legal problems over his over-zealousness.
I see nothing unconstitutional on the requiring of permits or curfews .
Hello again, tom:Quote:
Originally Posted by tomder55
Of course you don't. You also see nothing unconstitutional about the NSA reading our email and listening to our phone calls. Plus, you see nothing unconstitutional about denying Muslims the right to construct a mosque where ever they choose..
So, from MY point of view, you're going to need a better argument than, YOU see nothing unconstitutional about it.
excon
You distort my position on the other issues you cite ,so it doesn't surprise me you distort this one.
The first amendment might be the first amendment but it doesn't override the original Constitution it just makes clear something's that were left unsaid and you really do need to stop taking snippets from it and reading it out of context. Other amendments later add more but the whole document must be considered as a whole. When amendments were added it is clear that whatever was happening had made it obvious that a certain aspect hadn't been dealt with adequately.Quote:
Originally Posted by excon
The right of assembly is clearly presented with a purpose to petition government to redress grievences, not for the purpose of conducting illegal acts or contributing to civil disorder or targeting individuals
Hello again, clete:Quote:
Originally Posted by paraclete
That's the right wing view of them... Others hold a different view. Civil disobedience is the HIGHEST form of patriotism..
excon
Do we need to ask Rosa Parks about this one ?Quote:
Originally Posted by excon
Patriotism, is that what you think OWS exhibits? Personally I think is is an exhibition of Yoboism. Last time I looked patriotism was having concern for your country, not trashing it.Quote:
Originally Posted by excon
Where I come from Ex we have a saying; two wrongs don't make a right, and that means the end doesn't justify the means
They are not wrong for expressing themselves. And we are seeing them growing and learning, despite the obstacles that have been placed in their way by establishment, and that's in the best tradition of the American spirit. Scraggly, and disorganized as some may think, like most early movements are, if they continue to voice their displeasure, they will eventually be heard, and taken seriously. That takes time.
Just think what they can do after they shave, shower, and get haircuts, and register to vote, and actually vote! Ya think they are going to vote for Romney, Cain, Perry, or Bachmann?? I don't, hehehe, and they sure ain't going to get behind the Newtster.
So I guess I can see the right wanting them to just go away. I don't see that happening either. So at the risk of dating myself, Right on, brothers, right on. Does the heart good to see Americans that don't feel we should just roll over and let the Oligarchs have their way with us.
They did vote in 2008... They are the ObamazombiesQuote:
Just think what they can do after they shave, shower, and get haircuts, and register to vote, and actually vote!
How do you figure that? They aren't professing any political affiliation.Quote:
Originally Posted by tomder55
Yeah they packed the halls when the President made his campaign appearances... Now they are 4 years older and out of school and hopey changy has been replaced with reality ,a reality they have not come to grips with because they still believe that piece of credential they purchased from the liberal arts schools entitles them to high pay entry level jobs where they won't get their fingers dirty .
Tom are your saying your american dream has gone sour?
Hopey changy platitudes have.
The American dream is alive and well for those who realize it has to be earned.
Weren't the halls packed for McCain's campaign appearances too? That's no proof that the people are of any political affiliation; it seems to be a mix of ages and political spectrums.Quote:
Originally Posted by tomder55
So what bad decisions did you make not to be in the 1%?Quote:
Originally Posted by tomder55
You see... that is NOT the American dream. It is not the guarantee of happiness or wealth . It is in the promise of the pursuit of it.
James Truslow AdamsQuote:
The American dream, that has lured tens of millions of all nations to our shores in the past century has not been a dream of merely material plenty, though that has doubtlessly counted heavily. It has been much more than that. It has been a dream of being able to grow to fullest development as man and woman, unhampered by the barriers which had slowly been erected in the older civilizations, unrepressed by social orders which had developed for the benefit of classes rather than for the simple human being of any and every class.
It is far more than the collection of material wealth.
Then the american dream has indeed gone by the wayside since it's obvious to all that americans are overly concerned with appearing wealthy at the expense of other pursuits.Quote:
Originally Posted by tomder55
BLACK FRIDAY FOR ALL!
Perhaps that is indeed the problem... unrealistic expectations...
I drive a 1986 4Runner. That really makes me appear wealthy.Quote:
Originally Posted by NeedKarma
I guess you really didn't work hard enough.
Being wealthy was never a goal of mine, there are more important things than money. Kind of goes against your point I know but hey, I'm far from alone in that.Quote:
Originally Posted by NeedKarma
Hello again:
Is this the thread where I said if the Republicans get control, they'll take us back to the 19th Century? Well, I can find it, so I'm going to talk about that again...
If you don't believe the righty's will actually DO that, you should read that President Gingrich will ELIMINATE child labor laws.
Really, he said that...
excon
I think what he's talking about is a terrific idea. Yeah, I really said that.
Holy crap this guy cannot take a stance:Quote:
Originally Posted by excon
Then laterQuote:
In an interview with my colleague, Amy Gardner, Gingrich said that he is not advocating revamping child labor laws, he simply wants to empower young people with a work ethic they need to succeed.
Hahahaha, what a politician.Quote:
GOP presidential hopeful Newt Gingrich called child labor laws “truly stupid”
Back to the occupation for a moment, the ACLU has jumped in for the Minneapolis occupiers.
OK, so they may have a bit of a point on establishing new new rules in response to the occupation, but what gives them the right to "occupy" public property and block others from being able to use the property? That, and free electricity. Really? Free electricity is now a right?Quote:
The American Civil Liberties Union of Minnesota sued Hennepin County on Monday on behalf of OccupyMPLS, the protest group camping out on the Government Center Plaza in downtown Minneapolis in defiance of county rules.
The ACLU suit contends that those rules, which forbid tents and electricity, and "certain unwritten procedures enforced by the county" violate the demonstrators' free speech rights.
Members of OccupyMPLS have been staying on the Hennepin County Government Center plaza night and day since Oct. 7 "to express their frustration with the growing economic and political inequities in this country," according to a news release from the ACLU-MN.
Carolyn Marinan, director of Hennepin County's public affairs department, said the county was expecting the suit.
"We're responding, and it would not be prudent or appropriate to say anything ahead of any legal proceedings," she said.
The suit asks that new rules restricting the use of chalk, electricity and tents be declared unconstitutional. The plaintiffs are also seeking an injunction against the rules, and they want the county to provide electricity for the protesters. It also asks that officials stop giving trespass notices to protesters who build temporary shelters or use chalk to express their views.
The county has said the plaza is not designed for long-term occupation and that the restrictions adopted earlier this month are needed because of health and safety concerns and increased security costs.
You must be the only one in on the joke because calling them stupid is not the same as advocating a makeover. I'm sure the laws can be tweaked without a radical transformation.Quote:
Originally Posted by NeedKarma
Hello again, Steve:Quote:
Originally Posted by speechlesstx
May I refer you once again, to that wonderful document that you righty's PROFESS to be in love with... The First Amendment gives the people the right to assemble. The Constitution doesn't spell out the details.. That's left to locals. But, the details CANNOT interfere with the peoples RIGHTS. That's just so.
I know you think laws against spitting can and should be invoked to get rid of protesters... Ok, OK, I know you don't.. But, I bring that up to show you that piddly little city laws or school rules AIMED at, or USED to disrupt a peaceful Constitutionally protected protest are NOT legal. That's just so.
excon
I'm quoting him, did you miss this part?Quote:
Originally Posted by speechlesstx
Quote:
Gingrich said that he is not advocating revamping child labor laws
Quote:
Originally Posted by excon
So much for that argument. Now what gives them the right to free electricity?Quote:
Occupy Wall Street is suing to bring their tents and sleeping bags back to the park, but in Clark v. Community for Creative Non-Violence (1984), the Supreme Court held that the National Park Service could enforce its rules against sleeping in tents at Washington's Lafayette park and National Mall, even for a symbolic protest about homelessness. The tents in Zuccotti Park were shelter, not symbolic speech. As First Amendment lawyer Floyd Abrams told Reuters, it's a "real stretch to maintain that sleeping in a designated area itself is anything more than what it appears to be."
Nope, I saw it and that wasn't a quote.Quote:
Originally Posted by NeedKarma
Hello again, Steve:Quote:
Originally Posted by speechlesstx
I wasn't addressing ANY particular argument... I was just showing you that the Constitution TRUMPS local law, if the intent or the enforcement of it, is intended to disrupt a Constitutionally protected assembly of citizens.
They can't use spitting ordinances.. They can't use zoning ordinances. They can't use sitting on the sidewalk ordinances. They can't use lack of a permit, or noise laws... They just can't...
That doesn't mean the protesters can steal. Ultimately, there has to be a balance between the protesters right to protest, and the city's right to keep peace. It does NOT mean that one's rights TRUMP the other.
But, it's clear to me, that your side AND the cops think that if they don't like what's going on, they can simply use FORCE to end it... That's just not so. Not, in this great land of ours where we're PROTECTED by a Constitution that, indeed, SOME of us truly love - and it AIN'T YOUR wing.
excon
It's funny how these sitting protesters get much harsher than the Westboro Baptist Church protesters.Quote:
Originally Posted by excon
http://ou.media.clients.ellingtoncms.../westboro3.JPG
http://eagleionline.com/files/2010/1...-Protestor.jpg
http://media.thestar.topscms.com/ima...422c2a9f7.jpeg
We of course have condemned them on more than one occasion on these boards(myself since 2007)
https://www.askmehelpdesk.com/politi...ly-147352.html
I think the only people who haven't condemned the Phelps are the Phelps themselves. They are vile and despicable, and I've said that here at least 16 times.
Unfortunately you guys are not the one wielding the pepper spray.
What is that supposed to mean?Quote:
Originally Posted by NeedKarma
I take it to mean they sprayed the wrong protest group.
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