Ask Me Help Desk - Curioser and Curioser

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When A father or Mother has their Baby Baptized, It might be they are pledging themselves and their loved ones to God...Just as Jesus did for himself, or us.

I'm not sure I can pledge someone else to God. I can certainly pledge myself to God, and pledge myself to be a blessing to my children and raise them in the nurture and admonition of the Lord. And if infant baptism is done in that regard, then that's a much more sensible idea.

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And it fits in with the NT command to baptize the entire household (babies and small children included).

A command, it should be noted, that is found nowhere in the NT at all. As has been said dozens of times, infant baptism is mentioned absolutely nowhere in the Bible. There is no NT "command" to baptize the entire household.

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the idea that infant baptism results in being born again.

The idea of anybody's baptism being born again is also a misnomer.

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The idea of anybody's baptism being born again is also a misnomer.

I would agree with that.

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The idea of anybody's baptism being born again is also a misnomer.
I would agree with that.

So why belittle somebody's faith by discrediting Baptism? Should (can) a person be baptized twice (I don't know why they would)? It sounds like you believe they should

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So why belittle somebody's faith by discrediting Baptism?

You just discredited baptism, didn't you, saying it is not connected to being born again? My objection has been the exact same objection. I have belittled no one's faith, but I have advocated for the truth of the Gospel, as I would think you would do as well. The suggestion that infant baptism results in a baby becoming a Christian at three weeks or days of age is simply not a biblical idea.

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Originally Posted by jlisenbe

There is no NT "command" to baptize the entire household.

Here are two reports:
In Acts 16, when Luke reports on the conversion of two locals (a wealthy merchant named Lydia and a jailer), he tells us that Paul baptized their entire households.

I Cor. 1:16 And I baptized also the household of Stephanas.

And if a baby or small child is baptized, what's the harm? If anything, it will put the adults' rears in gear to teach that child about God.

There's no command not to baptize -- plus it is, for infant baptism, also a naming ceremony.

Those two passages are NOT commands. They are simply historical observations, and there is no reason to believe that Paul was including infants, who are not yet able to believe, as part of the "household". In fact, this passage would seem to indicate that they were not included since they had not believed. "And he rejoiced along with his entire household that he had believed in God."

So you are still looking for even one reference to infant baptism. It's not there.

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And if a baby or small child is baptized, what's the harm? If anything, it will put the adults' rears in gear to teach that child about God.

I have no great objection to it so long as the people are not led to believe that the infant has become a Christian by virtue of being baptized. There is no biblical reason to advocate for that.

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Originally Posted by jlisenbe

The suggestion that infant baptism results in a baby becoming a Christian at three weeks or days of age is simply not a biblical idea.

No one has said that!!!

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Originally Posted by jlisenbe

Those two passages are NOT commands.

I said they are reports!!!

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Originally Posted by jlisenbe

I have no great objection to it so long as the people are not led to believe that the infant has become a Christian by virtue of being baptized. There is no biblical reason to advocate for that.

No one does. Being Christianized hasn't happened yet!!!

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No one has said that!!!

To be born again is to become a Christian. You are confused.

You claimed earlier, "And it fits in with the NT command to baptize the entire household (babies and small children included)." You are now backing away from that, so good for you, for there is certainly no such command. There are, as you said, "reports", but no commands as you had incorrectly tried to assert.

What do you mean by "being Christianized"?

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Originally Posted by jlisenbe

To be born again is to become a Christian. You are confused.

You are mixing up posts and comments. Take a nap!

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You are mixing up posts and comments.

It's what you like to say when you know you are out answers and basically whipped. Better luck next time!!

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Originally Posted by jlisenbe

It's what you like to say when you know you are out answers and basically whipped. Better luck next time!!

At least wait until I've had a chance to post my entire response!!!

I am NOT out of answers!!!

I am waiting eagerly!!

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Originally Posted by jlisenbe

I am waiting eagerly!!

If there are no parents, family members, friends, etc. to support the child in its growing in grace and knowledge, then baptism is unnecessary.

It's unnecessary in any case. The parents, etc. can pledge to support the child completely aside from a baptism which, in that case, is a baptism with no meaning to the child.

You are entitled to your own views. If you want to believe that you were born again when you were baptized at three weeks, then go for it.

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Originally Posted by jlisenbe

It's unnecessary in any case. The parents, etc. can pledge to support the child completely aside from a baptism which, in that case, is a baptism with no meaning to the child.

You are entitled to your own views. If you want to believe that you were born again when you were baptized at three weeks, then go for it.

This was supposed to be a discussion, not a rock-throwing contest.

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Baptism with no meaning to the child

A child has a soul that “is truly a part of God above". Focus on this fundamental part of your child and see the good inherent in them. Moreover, just like when we hold a candle near a large flame it will be attracted to the larger flame, our souls are attracted to its Divine Source. When we train our children in the observance of a command (a good deed or religious precept),
we afford them the opportunity for their souls to shine overtly. Baptism isn't wrong at any age.

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When did you accept Christ as your Savior?
At 3 weeks of age. Baptism

Martin Luther was baptized at one day old and he used to walk around exclaiming "I'm a Baptized Man!" Why do you think he said that? Baptism first faith later?

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This was supposed to be a discussion, not a rock-throwing contest.

I don't recall rocks. There have been questions. That's what we do in discussions.

It is well known that Martin Luther became a Christian as an adult. Any infant baptism had nothing to do with it. His discovery of the meaning of Rom. 1:17 was key. For in it the righteousness of God is revealed from faith for faith, as it is written, “The righteous shall live by faith.”

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Baptism with no meaning to the child

A child has a soul that “is truly a part of God above". Focus on this fundamental part of your child and see the good inherent in them. Moreover, just like when we hold a candle near a large flame it will be attracted to the larger flame, our souls are attracted to its Divine Source. When we train our children in the observance of a command (a good deed or religious precept),
we afford them the opportunity for their souls to shine overtly. Baptism isn't wrong at any age.

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When did you accept Christ as your Savior?
At 3 weeks of age. Baptism

Martin Luther was baptized at one day old and he used to walk around exclaiming "I'm a Baptized Man!" Why do you think he said that? Baptism first faith later?

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infant baptism had nothing to do with it.

Says Who? I remember one of you saying that Jesus' Baptism had nothing to do with it either. If Martin Luther Babtism was irrelevant, then why did he proclaim it? I think Baptism has more to do with it than meets the eye. I would think of it as two Godly parents dedicating their child to God...which was a thing in the OT, why not the NT?

Says history books about Luther. He confessed a genuine faith in his twenties.

https://christianity.stackexchange.c...ation-by-faith

I doubt that Martin Luther went about proclaiming, "I'm a baptized man."

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I remember one of you saying that Jesus' Baptism had nothing to do with it either.

You don't recall me saying it.