Well, another biased report goes down the drain.

"A database by the Chicago company Surgisphere Corp. was used in an observational study of nearly 100,000 patients published on May 22 in the influential Lancet journal that tied the malaria drugs hydroxychloroquine and chloroquine to a higher risk of death in hospitalized patients with the virus.
The validity of the data, however, has been called into question. The Lancet first published an “expression of concern” with the study after “serious scientific questions” were brought to its attention. It then retracted the report altogether on Thursday."

So that makes the dufus right because data was pulled because of a technicality? Naw, it's just back to the drawing board.

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So that makes the dufus right

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Didn't say that.

You didn't have to say it but your characterization of it speaks volumes in that direction as did Toms assessment in his post on the subject.

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Well, another biased report goes down the drain.

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Originally Posted by tomder55

Lancet's retraction :



https://marlin-prod.literatumonline....3620313246.pdf

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Lancet's retraction was based on lack of access to a database. Had the database been accessible, it is unknown what the results would have been. They may have been as originally stated.

Two other studies came to the same conclusion as the original Lancet study that there are no benefits from the drug and the death rate increased, and neither one used the same database.

They are studies by the NIH (National Institute of Health) and the VA.

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You didn't have to say it but your characterization of it speaks volumes in that direction as did Toms assessment in his post on the subject.

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It is positively amazing how you liberal dems can read minds. Really impressive, but I can do that as well. In fact, in your post I can see that your characterization of my characterization clearly shows that you are now a Trump supporter!!

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Lancet's retraction was based on lack of access to a database.

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There was more to it than just that. "The Guardian reports that Surgisphere “has so far failed to adequately explain its data or methodology” and says that the company’s “handful of employees appear to include a science fiction writer and an adult-content model.”

https://twnews.us/us-news/network-ne...tions-org-says

Athos it is 2 faulty studies that have shaped the debate about the drug The WHO has reversed course and is resuming it's test after Lancet's retraction . Before that the VA hospital test was equally flawed and misleading .Lancet's retraction is very clear . They can no longer vouch for the veracity of the study.

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Well the dufus said he was smarter than the generals so they are now speaking out against him, and the medicos will follow after he stopped listening to them too. No the world isn't crazy but the dufus certainly is acting like a nut!

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Mathis and Kelly should throw their hat in the ring . Presidents have used to Insurrection act before so to think Trump's suggestion of using it is an existential threat to the Constitution is absurd . 2 recent Presidents evoked it when there was only one city on assault by rioting and looting . I guess Bubba gets a pass when he used Federal Troops to assault the Branch Davidians because he never evoked it . History tells us that WWI Vets occupied the National Mall ; the' Bonus Army' .It was during the Depression and they were desperate and correctly thought they were owed a bonus payment for service in WWI . So about 20,000 marched on Washington with their families and set up camp on the Mall.
Hoover ordered McArthur to disperse them by any means necessary . Well most of the Vets decamped and left peacefully. But a group of them broke off and got violent .The police Chief was hit with a brick .One got killed when he grabbed a cop's night stick and the cop fired on him. McArthur sent his troops into action led by Ike and Patton. Patton had his cavalry mount up sabers drawn. They rode into the Vets and jabbed at everything in their path . Next came Ike's infantry lobbing tear gas . Then came the tanks for mop up . They rolled over the encampment knocking down tent and makeshift shacks alike . That cleared out the mall . But Mac wasn't satisfied . There was another encampment at Anacostia Flats, south of the 11th Street Bridge in what is now Anacostia Park. That was where a group of communist vets camped out . He had the draw bridge raised and access to the camp sealed off. Then a National Guard unit lit up the camp with flood lights . Then infantry units lobbing tear gas ,marched into the camp and torched it .

Now you should be relieved at how restrained the Barr led Federal officers were in clearing Lafayette park. Bottom line , when you are told to disperse by law enforcement you should do so. If you don't like it then take it up with a judge later .

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Originally Posted by tomder55

Athos it is 2 faulty studies that have shaped the debate about the drug The WHO has reversed course and is resuming it's test after Lancet's retraction . Before that the VA hospital test was equally flawed and misleading .Lancet's retraction is very clear . They can no longer vouch for the veracity of the study.

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Thank you for the correction.

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Answer why I should obey a guy in camouflage and a gun but no identification or insignia?

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Oh I know those guys . They are used in Fed pen when prisoners get unruly .They are especially trained to give therapeutic back massages .

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Originally Posted by tomder55

History tells us that WWI Vets occupied the National Mall ; the' Bonus Army' .It was during the Depression and they were desperate and correctly thought they were owed a bonus payment for service in WWI . So about 20,000 marched on Washington with their families and set up camp on the Mall.
Hoover ordered McArthur to disperse them by any means necessary . Well most of the Vets decamped and left peacefully. But a group of them broke off and got violent .The police Chief was hit with a brick .One got killed when he grabbed a cop's night stick and the cop fired on him. McArthur sent his troops into action led by Ike and Patton. Patton had his cavalry mount up sabers drawn. They rode into the Vets and jabbed at everything in their path . Next came Ike's infantry lobbing tear gas . Then came the tanks for mop up . They rolled over the encampment knocking down tent and makeshift shacks alike . That cleared out the mall . But Mac wasn't satisfied . There was another encampment at Anacostia Flats, south of the 11th Street Bridge in what is now Anacostia Park. That was where a group of communist vets camped out . He had the draw bridge raised and access to the camp sealed off. Then a National Guard unit lit up the camp with flood lights . Then infantry units lobbing tear gas ,marched into the camp and torched it

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Historians have characterized this Army action as brutal and unnecessary.

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Now you should be relieved at how restrained the Barr led Federal officers were in clearing Lafayette park.

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One brutal unnecessary action does not justify another brutal action. One of those lessons most of us learn in kindergarten.

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Bottom line , when you are told to disperse by law enforcement you should do so.

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Bottom Line - Illegal actions by law enforcement do not require obedience. Resisters might lose the battle, but tyranny should always be resisted.

technically the demonstration itself was illegal

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When do you need a permit? Protests of 25 people or more on the National Mall or other National Park Service operated spaces in DC require a permit (click here to see a listing of those spaces) require a permit, as does any event that requires streets to be closed. The Metropolitan Police, because they lost an important court case, are required to allow permit-less marches in the street as long as they stay within a single lane. Demonstrations on public sidewalks are legally permissable without a permit so long as they don’t block the walkway and fewer than 100 people are expected.

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https://washingtonpeacecenter.org/gu...ermit-process/

If I run the city I strictly enforce the permit process. That's what Rudy did when he ran NYC .Demonstrations did not stray from permitted areas . I'm a big believer in 'Free Speech Zones ' that have been used by many blue cities like 1988 Atlanta during the Dem convention ;or WTO meeting in Seattle ;or the 2004 Dem convention in Boston. When the law surrenders the streets civil society dies .

Is that your excuse to deny citizens their first amendment rights? You could probably stand to get out of NY for a while and see the rest of your country.

What do you mean by a "free speech zone"? You are likely aware that universities use such tactics to restrict the right of free speech on campuses, and in particular of free conservative speech.

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Originally Posted by jlisenbe

What do you mean by a "free speech zone"? You are likely aware that universities use such tactics to restrict the right of free speech on campuses, and in particular of free conservative speech.

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Of course you have evidence of that conservative assertion of discrimination. Please share.

Evidence? Would you accept the ACLU's word for it? "On certain college campuses, administrators have created “Free Speech Zones” — spaces where people are allowed to speak, protest, or gather signatures for causes they believe in. While it may sound like these zones are designed to promote speech, they actually do the opposite by confining political expression to designated areas, often in out-of-the-way locations on campus.That’s why this week, in a legal challenge to Arkansas State University’s “Free Expression Areas” policy, we filed a friend-of-the-court brief along with the Foundation for Individual Rights in Education arguing that such rules violate the First Amendment."

When the ACLU and FIRE agree on something, then that's pretty significant.

https://www.aclu.org/blog/free-speec...e-it-isnt-free

Or how about a court ruling???? You really should know by now that I don't make assertions I can't back up. "California judge rules all outdoor areas are free speech areas."

https://www.libertyheadlines.com/cou...will-continue/

Perhaps this doesn't bother you, but for freedom loving Americans, it swerves far too close to the old USSR. "Shaw was not in a college-designated free-speech zone at the time and didn’t have a school-endorsed permit to solicit literature."

https://constitutioncenter.org/blog/...ublic-colleges

Good for you. Cool! So at least in California conservatives won their rights.

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What do you mean by a "free speech zone"? You are likely aware that universities use such tactics to restrict the right of free speech on campuses, and in particular of free conservative speech.

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I was being tongue in cheek a little . My larger point is that every one of these blue cities have permit processes that they enforce for almost every other street event .I posted the DC rules to make it clear that all the demonstrators were in violation of them and it was perfectly acceptable to forcibly remove them when they would not comply with the instructions they were given. You make a good point about the zones. They were used in the conventions to control the optics . How different is that than what Trump did ?

I agree with you completely, Tom. There is no unlimited right to gather wherever you want, whenever you want to do whatever you want.

Next you're going to tell me that Americans can't dominate the streets their taxes pay for. Who wrote those rules that says they can't? Maybe those rules need changing too.

I thought the dufus, the congress and all those elected folks worked for ME!